That's right, it's spelled out quite clearly in the rules under Racial Traits: "Halflings are nimble and strong-willed, but their small stature makes them weaker than other races."
It can't be any more clear than this. It's racial bias I tell you!
On a marginally related note. Halflings are the only race that got their racial bonuses pulled back from their 3.5 counterparts. They lost their +1 attack bonus with thrown weapons and got... a sling staff. Don't get me wrong I like the sling staff but it's not much use to the iconic halfling rogue or the halfling bard since it's still a martial weapon. Plus their second bonus stat is charisma?
Apparently we're setting up for lots of halfling paladins smiting away with a sling staff....
The only thing that bugged me about Halflings is their proficiency with slings, so all those Halfling wizards can rejoice... being the only class that doesn't get sling. It's no big deal, just kinda silly to me.
Yeah, I don't really understand it either. The +1 with thrown was actually lot better than the sling stuff. I guess I'd just HR it that they're all prof with the slingstaff.
The CHA also doesn't really make sense to me. I'm aware that I'm in the dark ages amongst gamers, but I tend to still think of halflings as Hobbbits, which means practical homespun wisdom, rather than "yay, charisma." Giving them charisma feels like too much conceptual overlap with the Gnome.
On the plus side, people do love small characters, so maybe all small races should have a CHA bonus....
I'd be happy house ruling them to wisdom instead truthfully, but halflings are still a nice choice for a race:
Save bonuses, perception bonuses, size bonuses to hit and AC, low light, other skill bonuses, they have plenty going for them.
Truthfully I could also see gnomes being Int bonused instead of Cha.
Well ultimately they seem singled out. All the other races actually got boosted a bit. Elves get +2 versus SR which is awesome for casters. Elves and Dwarves which were already the strongest 2 races got bumps to stats that are useful to every class. Hoomans got an arbitrary stat bump.
Overall, it's not a huge thing and they are still a decent race to play but I still feel they got screwed and are too similar to the gnomes.
Well, halflings make rather good ranged paladins, as well as high dexterity fighters.
While they lost their bonus on thrown weapons and slings, most characters were better of with bows anyway.
BOWS!!! They're halflings. Every self respecting halfling throws stuff.
Holy Sling-Staff, Batman!!!
Seems to me that halflings would make very good sorcerers.
Gnome +2 Cha, +2 Con, -2st, Low Light Vision,
Halfling +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2st, +1 all saves.
Depends I guess on whether you'd like to have an extra +1 to AC or an extra +1 HP level.
Seems to me that halflings would make very good sorcerers.
Gnome +2 Cha, +2 Con, -2st, Low Light Vision,
Halfling +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2st, +1 all saves.
Depends I guess on whether you'd like to have an extra +1 to AC or an extra +1 HP level.
Both make for exellent spellcasters
Seems to me that halflings would make very good sorcerers.
Small characters have always made good arcane casters; +1 to attack certainly helps hit that touch AC despite your pitiful BAB, and +1 AC for characters who can't wear armor is nothing to sneeze at.
I always liked the goblins best: mechanically simpler, huge Stealth bonus, and an always-active 2nd-level spell.
I always liked the goblins best: mechanically simpler, huge Stealth bonus, and an always-active 2nd-level spell.
Goblins are a great small race. As fast as the big folks, darkvision, stealth.... great stuff
Just checked in the Bastards of Erebus and Paizo has bumped the +4 hide to +4 stealth Woot!
Halflings make damned good Paladins, especially if you visit a large city around Level 3 and pick up your Mithril Full Plate.
Seems to me that halflings would make very good sorcerers.
Gnome +2 Cha, +2 Con, -2st, Low Light Vision,
Halfling +2 Cha, +2 Dex, -2st, +1 all saves.
Depends I guess on whether you'd like to have an extra +1 to AC or an extra +1 HP level.
Gnomes can get +2 HP per level, since Sorcerer is one of their favored classes, right?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I've always disliked halflings in D&D. They've always had a "grafted on" feeling, like a sixth finger. They were poorly conceived and translated to begin with. They've been reinterpreted a lot over the years too, from arctic to cannibalistic.
These halflings I like. They're unobtrusive and everywhere, little masters without a home, which presents some great roleplaying opportunities. They remind me just a little of Kender.
It's also extremely gratifying that the races in Pathfinder don't have the rules overkill of gaining levels.
Gnomes can get +2 HP per level, since Sorcerer is one of their favored classes, right?
Everyone gets to pick their favored class now.
I always liked the goblins best: mechanically simpler, huge Stealth bonus, and an always-active 2nd-level spell.Goblins are a great small race. As fast as the big folks, darkvision, stealth.... great stuff
Just checked in the Bastards of Erebus and Paizo has bumped the +4 hide to +4 stealth Woot!
OH, OH, Can you spill the beans on the rest of their Stats? Do they match the +2/+2/-2 or what?
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OH, OH, Can you spill the beans on the rest of their Stats? Do they match the +2/+2/-2 or what?I always liked the goblins best: mechanically simpler, huge Stealth bonus, and an always-active 2nd-level spell.Goblins are a great small race. As fast as the big folks, darkvision, stealth.... great stuff
Just checked in the Bastards of Erebus and Paizo has bumped the +4 hide to +4 stealth Woot!
They are in the Bestiary Preview. They get -2 Strength, -2 Charisma and +4 Dexterity.
I like gnomes the way they are now.
Well ultimately they seem singled out. All the other races actually got boosted a bit. Elves get +2 versus SR which is awesome for casters. Elves and Dwarves which were already the strongest 2 races
Elves strong? Not really. The con penalty is brutal. Dwarves, on the other hand, are indeed overpowered.
I think halflings are a very decent race. You can't do Big Attack Brute, of course, and never will, because they're small and weak, but they have plenty of nice things, making them great bards, rogues and sorcerers.
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i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lasts
ding ding ding
We have a winner! Thats pretty much the way I look at it. But I can see where some are upset.
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Regarding goblins:
They are in the Bestiary Preview. They get -2 Strength, -2 Charisma and +4 Dexterity.
Did they not get these facts transfered properly to the "Reincarnate" template in the PHB (p 332)?
Actually running a game tonight with a Goblin Wizard (he used to be an elf, he is a little pissed off about his new looks and has a chip on his shoulder the size of Cheliax!)
i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lasts
No one in this thread (at the time I posted this) has said that halflings are useless or not fun to play just the way they are.
Why is it whenever a thread is started about mechanical aspects of the game someone drops in and says 'why don't people just play it unquestioning rather than discussing the mechanics'?
i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lasts
This is mostly a game-theory thing. take it with a grain of salt. Actually, most of the boards are game theory. Think of it as really really lame mental exercise. I've said in the past I think rules are about 5% of any given game. Rules are actually pretty meaningless compared to the GM and the players. Most players aren't posters, and most of us who are posters are people who enjoy the mental exercise or who want that 5% to be as good as possible.
In reality, most people here probably don't give a poo about power as long as the game stays fun and interesting. I happen to love bards. And Hobbits (that's right, hobbits).
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I probably will be house ruling halflings a bit, I LOVE the sling staff, but the proficiency with slings is just sand in the face. WTF are all the small people with all the CHA bumps anyways?
Halfings lose keen senses, lose CHA +2
gain WIS +2 (strong willed and perceptive) +1 to attack with thrown (including the sling staff)
ELVES should be Dex +2 CHA +2 CON -2 (elves should be inherently magical)
question: do all small sized creatures (and dwarves ) get -4 to jump due to their 20ft moves? and if so why isnt it in the merits and drawbacks for being small sized?
i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lasts
This post is a joke... the 'weaker than other races' is a direct quote from the roolbuk referring to their strength bonus and was meant as a play on words.
Halflings are a blast to play. They are not weak. I am a little grumpy about the thrown weapon thing but mostly I am mocking the seely Hooman lovers who made a 10 page post saying the same thing over and over and over.
question: do all small sized creatures (and dwarves ) get -4 to jump due to their 20ft moves? and if so why isnt it in the merits and drawbacks for being small sized?
Goblinz jump good! Paizo likes goblins so they make halflings slow and pokey so halflings fit into game in best possible way, in goblin'z larder.
Haw haw haw
i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lastsThis post is a joke... the 'weaker than other races' is a direct quote from the roolbuk referring to their strength bonus and was meant as a play on words.
Halflings are a blast to play. They are not weak. I am a little grumpy about the thrown weapon thing but mostly I am mocking the seely Hooman lovers who made a 10 page post saying the same thing over and over and over.
God that was terrible. I read like two pages and almost commented before realizing I was going to be sucked into mental hell. Humans are the most powerful core race. By a lot. And bards are good. GOOD I SAY.
question: do all small sized creatures (and dwarves ) get -4 to jump due to their 20ft moves? and if so why isnt it in the merits and drawbacks for being small sized?
It's not in there because it a speed based issue. A Halfing Barbarian for instant doesn't suffer that penalty. If it was included in their race stat block and not worded carefully they would end up always suffering it even at greater speeds.
In 3.5, I DM for a large group where the main tank is a halfling swashbuckler/rogue/invisible blade/master thrower/whisperknife. He's pretty devastating even when he DOESN'T throw his 1d3 dmg daggers. The same guy played a homebrew otterfolk that was essentially a pathfinder halfling (+2 Dex +2 Cha -2 Str -2 Wis) bard, and he was the primary tank AND healer for that campaign. So halflings (and their ilk) can rock out!
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God that was terrible. I read like two pages and almost commented before realizing I was going to be sucked into mental hell. Humans are the most powerful core race. By a lot. And bards are good. GOOD I SAY.i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lastsThis post is a joke... the 'weaker than other races' is a direct quote from the roolbuk referring to their strength bonus and was meant as a play on words.
Halflings are a blast to play. They are not weak. I am a little grumpy about the thrown weapon thing but mostly I am mocking the seely Hooman lovers who made a 10 page post saying the same thing over and over and over.
Okay okay I will admit it... ALL the races seem pretty darn cool to me. The really seem to fit the flavor each was going after. I also like all the classes now (well ALMOST like the sorcerer).
But let's face it Halfings and Bards are the easiest to make fun of... ummm nope... still easier to make fun of elves...
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question: do all small sized creatures (and dwarves ) get -4 to jump due to their 20ft moves? and if so why isnt it in the merits and drawbacks for being small sized?It's not in there because it a speed based issue. A Halfing Barbarian for instant doesn't suffer that penalty. If it was included in their race stat block and not worded carefully they would end up always suffering it even at greater speeds.
I think a Halfling Cleric with the Travel domain would be fun. 10' extra movement and pop Longstrider and the halfling is out distancing the long shanks.
And someone noted they ran a Society game at Gencon that had something like four half-orc bards and two halfling barbarians... and they all lived! lol that is hilarious!
i'm just curious why i see a lot of these posts talking about how weak one race is or how useless a class is, why can't a halfling be fun just the way it is in the new rules? does every character have to have an ability at 18 to make that character good? i dare you all to play a halfling bard with a limp (reduced movement) and talks like he's been chewing on gravel, why? cuz it will be fun.might die in the first fight but it will be fun while it lasts
WHAT YOU SAY? calsses and riases need power or their bad!!! roleplay are weak loosers! power power pwoer!!!!!1
In other words: You're right, of course.
What are you guys talking about? Halflings are a horribly balanced race. Half of their racial abilities are disadvantages. Almost all of the other races get a bonus to Perception and the bonuses to saves is only so-so. They even try to make the one vs. Fear sound better by saying "all saving throws against fear". Good thing they covered the Fortitude and Reflex saves vs. fear.
Halflings are the weakest race especially compared to the overpowered Humans.
What are you guys talking about? Halflings are a horribly balanced race. Half of their racial abilities are disadvantages. Almost all of the other races get a bonus to Perception and the bonuses to saves is only so-so. They even try to make the one vs. Fear sound better by saying "all saving throws against fear". Good thing they covered the Fortitude and Reflex saves vs. fear.
Halflings are the weakest race especially compared to the overpowered Humans.
Hum reflex save against fear, I need to go stat up some form of undead with a gaze attack for that one. Thanks for the idea.
Hmmm. Hope I didn't kill this thread. I was really only joking around.
Hmmm. Hope I didn't kill this thread. I was really only joking around.
This thread was DOA. Really had no point to start and it's sort of wandered ever since. I was a bit grouchy about the whole throwing thing then realized how much they came out ahead on the skills end so it's a wash. It's not as if the throwing thing was a surprise in any case.