The new article is up on WOTC. Thanks James for the insight, a pleasure to read as always. Are there any plans for any other entries before 4E?
This is the first article they've put up so far that truly deserves the Dragon designation. Excellent work, James, I thoroughly enjoyed the article! Hopefully Nick's Dungeon adventure will also raise the bar a little bit... they certainly need something to pull the nightmare they call DDI up out of the muck it's been wallowing in.
- Ashavan
That is great stuff...of course someone from Paizo wrote it.
That kind of reduces the success of it as an article of the 'New' Dragon.
Very cool, James. Is it downloadable? I haven't seen any indication that it is, beyond the printer friendly version (which I can't really use, since I don't have a printer that works).
I just copy and pasted.
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Very cool, James. Is it downloadable? I haven't seen any indication that it is, beyond the printer friendly version (which I can't really use, since I don't have a printer that works).
It doesn't seem to be downloadable. That's why I went ahead and pulled a copy and paste. I'll make a PDF file out of it then read it at my own leisure.
From what little I did scan through already, however, it seems that James was his usual masterful self with regards to the Demonomicon articles.
Creative Director
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Yes, good stuff.
I'm curious if there was any reason why his 1e disintegration ability was removed?
No disintegrate spell-like ability because that's not all that subtle and "Graz'zt themed" in my opinion. And more to the point, for all of the demon lords I've statted up, I retained a relatively similar level of spell-like abilities for each, since about 3/4 of a demon lord's spell-like abilities are the same as any other demon lord. The remaining quarter is spells that match his or her theme. And like I mentioned above, disintegrate doesn't really mesh with my idea of who Graz'zt is.
If he wants to disintegrate someone, he'll just find some wizard who can and make that wizard do it for him. :)
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I was glad that Demogorgon retained everything that made him feel like Demogorgon (mind-affecting gaze, level-draining tail, rotting tentacles).
Orcus retained his wand and poison tail, but lacks his at will lightning bolt, but that's easily added as a sorceror spell.
Graz'zt kept his sword and shield, but disintegrate was what I considered to be his nasty attack.
Thanks for the insight :)
Great piece of work, James, but then again, that's what you do: great work. I'd been looking forward to this one since the Demonomicon articles began and it's one of the best. I think it does a great job describing the Dark Prince in all his glory. I like the tyranny power; reminds me of Asmodeus. Dark Grace was pretty good too, though I was surprised he didn't get something like a paladin's divine grace. Maybe just a touch more than he needed (+16 to all saves? Nah, he's a demon prince). You set the bar for WotC with that one.
Nice timing on the Graz'zt Demonomicon entry as I have plans for him in my campaign.
The 'heroes' have thwarted his minions a couple of times and killed one of his Aspects, so he is a bit miffed.
And they have aided someone he is not too keen on... Malcanthet.
So it's nice to have a CR 32 version (Thanks James... More Demonicon entries please).
And for the record, Disintegrate is not that useful for anyone up against a CR 32 demon. If they don't have the means to counter Disintegrate or have good enough saves to resist it then they are going to get slaugtered no matter what abilities he uses.
And 'Tyranny' can get one of his enemies doing just about anything Graz'zt wants.
The tip of the hat in the section that speculated on Pale Night's original consort was nifty. Methikus sar Telmuril approves. ;)
Other thoughts:
The deva mined stone used to construct the Argent Palace was a nice touch, the descriptions of some of the regions of the palace itself was cool, and I got a kick out of Zryaznian.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you got away with including Graz'zt's capture of Waukeen in his history section. A cynical part of me however thinks they probably don't care with 4e looming and all the retcons and/or reboots therein.
<The Last Rogue applauds.>
Fantastic work as always, James!
The caligrosto are very interesting. I'm worried for my character, though (a blademaster type)...I sent the link to my DM before I read the article! :)
I'm really going to miss these articles in a few months. :(
A wonderful article James, what I've come to expect from the Demonomicon in your capable hands. 4e looming or not I'd love to see a collection of all the Demonomicon Articles in one book. Would you consider doing a similiar style of article for the OGL demon lords?
A question, would the Lamia Matriarchs detailed in Pathfinder #2 also be among Graz'zt's favored? True I understand Pathfinder (and its content) is OGL but it seems they would be fit Graz'zt's style.
I'm also curious how big a role Graz'zt plays in your own campaign.
Since I have not touched anything ont he WotC web site since they slew the print editions of Dragon and Dungeon, could someone please post a link to that area. I would love to have a copy of this.
Thanks in advance.
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Creative Director
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A wonderful article James, what I've come to expect from the Demonomicon in your capable hands. 4e looming or not I'd love to see a collection of all the Demonomicon Articles in one book. Would you consider doing a similiar style of article for the OGL demon lords?
A question, would the Lamia Matriarchs detailed in Pathfinder #2 also be among Graz'zt's favored? True I understand Pathfinder (and its content) is OGL but it seems they would be fit Graz'zt's style.
I'm also curious how big a role Graz'zt plays in your own campaign.
I'd absolutely consider doing a similar style of article for OGL demon lords. And I'd love to continue doing official Demonomicon articles, but WotC seems set on taking that mythology down a road I'm not particularly interested in walking. <shrug>
Lamia Matriarchs certainly would fit quite well into Graz'zt's court, as will the other variant lamias we have coming up in Pathfinder 6.
As for my own campaign, Graz'zt's actually never really had a big role at all. Obox-ob is the main bad-guy god of my homebrew world, and Demogorgon's got a strong role as well. I've also got a pretty large stable of home-brew demon lords there too, some of which have been rolled into the Demonomicon series (like Lascer), and some of which have not (they may or may not show up in Pathfinder some day...)
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Since I have not touched anything ont he WotC web site since they slew the print editions of Dragon and Dungeon, could someone please post a link to that area. I would love to have a copy of this.
Thanks in advance.
Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz'zt, printer friendly
There, you don't have to see icky WotC's site this way :)
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James Jacobs wrote
The Velvet Realm: Notorious throughout the planes, this tower is swathed in black and scarlet and inhabited by the dark prince's personal pleasure slaves, chosen from the most beautiful and decadent of succubi, incubi, lamias, humanoids, and other creatures, male and female alike, from throughout the multiverse. One of Malcanthet's lilitu spies recently infiltrated this harem and seduced Graz'zt. When he discovered the treachery, he murdered all of his consorts and sealed the tower -- rumor holds that the undead spirits of the slaughtered consorts now hold court within the Velvet Realm, hoping one day to lure their Dark Prince back for unholy pleasures.
I've been there. It wasn't cheap. Good food in the penthouse though.
Since I have not touched anything ont he WotC web site since they slew the print editions of Dragon and Dungeon, could someone please post a link to that area. I would love to have a copy of this.
Thanks in advance.
Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz'zt, printer friendly
There, you don't have to see icky WotC's site this way :)
Thanks! I will check it out when I get off work.
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Just make it a PDF and save it. Simple. No need to print it at all.
I have a question
What demon lords and devil princes are OGL? Most are from mythology and the names are public domain. But Graz'zt is made up by WOTC as far as I know. So, maybe more apt, is what demon lords and devil princes are off limits?
At the bottom of the article is a list of options.
Email to a friend
discuss this topic
downloadjust hit the download and you get a nice looking pdf already made.
The pdf it makes doesn't look very good to me. My printer can't handle that small of a margin without shrinking the page and the text seems a bit large.
That's a good question.Well done...will there be a next entry...?
One request though: if you're most likely not doing any more, can u please give what you would guess is the challenge rating according to your scale for Obox-Ob? He was the one I was most waiting for... :)
Note sure if everyone knows about this, but I use it constantly:
Note sure if everyone knows about this, but I use it constantly:
Wow -- Thanks a lot, this program works great!
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Creative Director
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Hmmm..."Shattered Night?" James, could you clue us in?
Shattered Night is a part of the Wells of Darkness where the prisoners in the wells are kept. It may or may not be a layer of the Abyss that can only be accessed via the wells in Wells of Darkness. Once you're in there, it's nearly impossible to get back out.
Mr Jacobs, a pact with Demogorgon?
And what, praytell, does the effects of Demogorgon getting fragged in thousands of campaigns (potentially) mean ... I daresay you cannot absorb so many negative levels as your patron ... ^_^
Excellent article, as I'd expect from JJ. Some super-sweet art by Jason Engle; especially the 1st few pieces.
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Question-
Graz'zt is listed as Tanar'ri, yet his mother, Pale Night, is Obiryth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Tanar'ri were created from the souls of mortals. I'm not suggesting there is an error, I just wanna' hear the story behind this. Does that suggest that Graz'zt's father was Tanar'ri? Or did Pale Night, unable to actually "get pregnant" create her son from a mortal soul? Or is Graz'zt, the most human looking of all the Tanar'ri demon lords, in all actuality - and unbeknownst to all - an Obiryth? Many, many possibilities.
IIRC, Pale Night is also the mother of the bull demon lord whose name escapes me at the moment. Whether that is honorary or literal hopefully will remain ambiguous.
Question-
Graz'zt is listed as Tanar'ri, yet his mother, Pale Night, is Obiryth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Tanar'ri were created from the souls of mortals. I'm not suggesting there is an error, I just wanna' hear the story behind this. Does that suggest that Graz'zt's father was Tanar'ri? Or did Pale Night, unable to actually "get pregnant" create her son from a mortal soul? Or is Graz'zt, the most human looking of all the Tanar'ri demon lords, in all actuality - and unbeknownst to all - an Obiryth? Many, many possibilities.
It's an open question. Potentially the father was tanar'ri, or with tanar'ri having already been created by the obyriths (perhaps Pale Night in particular) and accepted as a template (for lack of a better term) for petitioner evolution in the Abyss, any of Pale Night's children might be tanar'ri by default regardless of her status as one of the eldest obyrith lords.
And we don't necessarily have to take Pale Night's role as mother to be literal. She might have simply infused nascent petitioners with a fraction of her essence, etc.
Lots of possibilities, though I like the literal idea with an unknown father and its inherent contradictions of type. :)
IIRC, Pale Night is also the mother of the bull demon lord whose name escapes me at the moment.
Baphomet is said to be Pale Night's consort (or she his), but there's no claim that she's his mother. Baphomet IIRC was (like Orcus and others) once mortal.
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Creative Director
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What is obyrith and what is tanar'ri is also not so cut and dry. Pazuzu, for example, was originally an obyrith, but over time he's grown more like a tanar'ri. He retains the obyrith subtype, but he doesn't have a form of madness ability.
As for Pale Night having tanar'ri kids... Pale Night is an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a shroud of protection layered on her by a reality that can't accept what she actually is, so in her case, anything goes.
This is a little off topic but I was hoping someone could clarify for me. I heard that the Succubi were being converted from Demons to Devils. Is this true? And if this is true does that mean no more Malcanthet?
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Creative Director
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This is a little off topic but I was hoping someone could clarify for me. I heard that the Succubi were being converted from Demons to Devils. Is this true? And if this is true does that mean no more Malcanthet?
It does indeed sound like, in 4th edition, succubi will be devils. I have no idea what this means for Malcanthet, if she goes away or becomes a devil or what. I suspect that in the core rules of 4th edition, the Demonomicon articles and the Fiendish Codex will not function at all, which is pretty depressing.
As for Pale Night having tanar'ri kids... Pale Night is an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a shroud of protection layered on her by a reality that can't accept what she actually is, so in her case, anything goes.
So...she's secretly Nelson from The Simpsons, at one time described as "A riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a vest" by Lisa? Is that why her layer of the Abyss is plagued by a constant "Haw! Haw!" whenever someone gets injured?
Oh, crud. Have I spoiled the secret? Curse my uncanny intuition, encyclopedic memory and demodandish good looks!
James, just wanted to say that I really liked the article, and I really appreciate the mention of Waukeen in Graz'zt's history. I'll still be using this information for some time to come in my Spellplagueless Forgotten Realms campaign.
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It does indeed sound like, in 4th edition, succubi will be devils. I have no idea what this means for Malcanthet, if she goes away or becomes a devil or what. I suspect that in the core rules of 4th edition, the Demonomicon articles and the Fiendish Codex will not function at all, which is pretty depressing.
Well, there will be a lot of us still playing older editions or using the current core assumptions (and making good use of FC1 and the Demonomicon articles I have no doubt). It does suck that it probably won't be considered core anymore though.
Very good article, as per usual with the Demonomicon, but it just feels wrong as a webpage. Like a thoroughbred racehorse being used to plow a cabbage field. The physical Dragon layouts really added to the ambience of the pieces, and now that's gone. *sigh*
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Creative Director
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Very good article, as per usual with the Demonomicon, but it just feels wrong as a webpage. Like a thoroughbred racehorse being used to plow a cabbage field. The physical Dragon layouts really added to the ambience of the pieces, and now that's gone. *sigh*
I agree. The layout really does add to the presentation, and simply throwing them up on a web page with no treatment whatsoever makes the whole thing look lazy.
I'm hoping to see actual layout work ala Dragon of the print variety done when they compile the articles. I'm still holding my very volatile tongue until I give them that opportunity to wow me. I just want to say, they need to do an awful lot to wow me at this point.
- Ashavan