How do natural attacks combine with weapon attacks?


Rules Questions


i.e. In the APG a barbarian can gain the rage powers from the Beast totem tree, or in Unchained there is Abyssal blood etc.

These give "two primary claw attacks of 1d6 damage". My character uses a one handed hammer and a shield. Can he use both weapon attacks and the primary natural attacks?


Quote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.


GM Rednal wrote:
Quote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Do you have a link to this from the SRD or the core rulebook or something else?


Yes, I do.

(It's in the Universal Monster Rules, under 'Natural Attacks')


GM Rednal wrote:

Yes, I do.

(It's in the Universal Monster Rules, under 'Natural Attacks')

Perfect - thankyou!


You're welcome. ^^ Enjoy your game!


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Heaven's Thunder Hammer wrote:

i.e. In the APG a barbarian can gain the rage powers from the Beast totem tree, or in Unchained there is Abyssal blood etc.

These give "two primary claw attacks of 1d6 damage". My character uses a one handed hammer and a shield. Can he use both weapon attacks and the primary natural attacks?

Natural attacks can be combined with weapon attacks, but there are some restrictions.

First, if doing a standard action attack you can only chose one type of attack. That is at your highest bab plus modifiers for that specific attack and damage (some natural attacks like bite gets 1.5 strength if used as the sole attack)

Second full attacks use your weapon attack iteratives ( so full bab for first, then bab -5 for second etc, two weapon fighting applies as normal if applicable) and then natural attacks are performed as secondary natural attacks (so -5 or -2 if you have multiattack feat, check with your gm, as this is a monster feat if you can use, in PFS you cannot, and strength damage is 1/2)

Third, you cannot use the same "hand" for two attacks. I.e., if using a claw attack it uses a hand, so does your hammer attack, so,you can't have both. You can use the other hand for 1 claw but not both, or a bite with your weapon. Unarmed attacks don't have to be with a "hand" so you can do full iterative unarmed strikes and 2 claw attacks as secondary attacks for example.

In your specific example, however you have 1 hand being used by your shield. Which will prevent the attack from the claw in that hand (or you can use a buckler, but there is a penalty when attacking with the "hand" that the buckler is on. In the other hand, you have a weapon and claw. You can attack with the hammer, but then you will not be able to attack in the same round with the claw as a full attack. There will be table variance if you can or cannot attack with the claw instead of the hammer instead. (I have had gm's say you need to drop the weapon, other gm's say if your other hand is free, you can attack with the free claw first, then pass the hammer to that hand as a free action, and now attack with the now empty hand with the claw, and other gm's that say you can attack with either the weapon or claw without passing it, but only 1.

If you are looking to use both natural attacks and weapon attacks, I would suggest taking either fiend totem for a gore attack, or a bite attack if you want to still be able to use the hammer and shield with a full attack.

If you're in a home campaign, talk to your GM, he/she might allow you to house rule this. In PFS you can't get both your claws and a weapon attack.


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Just for completeness's sake, the rule is also in the Combat section of the CRB.

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.


Note that an unarmed strike doesn't technically need to use a fist, so it's possible to combine claws and unarmed strikes. For a unique combat style, it's possible to do something like wielding a longsword in two hands for single attacks, while changing grip to go longsword/unarmed strike/claw with Two-Weapon Fighting.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I ran into a particular problem when the Occult classes were first in Herolab, where my Spiritualist (Echoplasmist) had both her claw attacks (Changeling) and whatever Lashes she has summoned/formed.

I already know that these are equipped (from the 3rd level powers and beyond) so I reported the bug to Lonewolf. That I had the possibility to have four attacks in one round, that is just way to much.


Hyrgulf wrote:

Second full attacks use your weapon attack iteratives ( so full bab for first, then bab -5 for second etc, two weapon fighting applies as normal if applicable) and then natural attacks are performed as secondary natural attacks (so -5 or -2 if you have multiattack feat, check with your gm, as this is a monster feat if you can use, in PFS you cannot, and strength damage is 1/2)

Actually the Full-Attack rule only applies ordering to iterative attacks gained from BAB progression,

Full-Attack wrote:

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

you can take your natural attacks whenever you want, there are no ordering restrictions on them like there are for your normal iterative attacks gained from high BAB

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