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Goblin Squad Member. 844 posts (1,058 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
I'm not convinced that they need as many different crafting roles as they have. Perhaps one day, but at the moment, Seventeen crafting roles to support four adventure roles (and I'm not including Gathering) is extraordinarily heavy. It's putting a lot of strain on settlements to try to maintain all the roles they need if they hope to have decent gear.

"No company is an island"

(unless it's big enough to be a continent)

The current design is deliberately to force interaction between companies. You're not supposed to be able to maintain all roles without a bit of strain (just like no settlement have all the trainers).

Even if you have 17 dedicated crafters and a bunch of dedicated gatherers, you still won't find find all the resources you need within 10 hexes of your settlement. Deliberate?

Goblin Squad Member

Hark wrote:
Neadenil Edam wrote:
The significant thing is Goblinworks have changed their policy from Settlements being a relatively safe hex from random PvP to an area where the players need to actively defend the crafters and settlement. One random PvPer at Keepers has been enough to disrupt trading and crafting for long periods, a concerted attack with a full company spread over most of a day would bring an entire settlement to a halt.
That one is probably worth a topic by itself. I've spend the past few years under the impression that guards would be taking out people causing trouble in settlement outside the pvp window. It's really a huge shift in things with a lot of potential to be disruptive to te game.

I still maintain the same impression - but we are currently not setting our own settlement laws. Thornguards by default allow murder and only hunt those with extreme low rep. Our own guards could presumably be instructed to hunt anyone with an attacker flag. Adding city walls, trespasser laws, more guards etc would further increase safety.

Of course, linking crafting stations to the bank instead of inventory would be a different way of protecting crafters, but i can sort of understand if GW want to force everyone to live with some risk.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

1) 'useful tip' rather than favourite: selecting a stack and putting it back in the same window doubles it. Extremely useful for refiners/bankbots with huge stacks of raw materials.

2) the crafting system. Not just the interdependence, but the occasional 'aha' moments you get when analysing it deeper and the ability to vary recipes to use more/less of certain key materials.

Example: making small cloth pack +2: with a weaver4 it takes 11.23 wool and 1 essence per pack - with a weaver6 it takes 5.63 wool and 0.16 essences. Or you can spend 2 extra wool to save 0.28 pelts.

Goblin Squad Member

is idling automatic?

i like the idea that i can idle in this 'new global' without being logged into the game. Not to mention a trade channel where you can catch up with the last few hours of activity while waiting for the game to load.

Goblin Squad Member

I agree with Giorgio that separating the basics from the advanced.

Basic combat and crafting in the noob part - advanced combat and crafting in separate sections.

By advanced combat i mean stuff like damage calculation formula, effect scaling, different channels, etc. Lots of this is in Ryan's guide and you don't need to know it to go out and kill ogres - but you'll want it for optimizing a pvp build (not to mention for coordinating pvp builds in a group).

By advanced crafting i mean recipe optimization(*), +4/+5 chance, etc. Unless you got high skill and lots of recipes or are trying to coordinate a group of crafters, this is not worth the effort of reading (but for the dedicated crafters it is gold).

(*) recipe optimization as in: there are different ways to make the same +2 item, and one of them is the cheapest (for given set of values for components).

Goblin Squad Member

Proxima Sin of Brighthaven wrote:
He's also not really left-handed.

who? the six-fingered man?

Goblin Squad Member

ps: do you want input on content for the yet unwritten combat & crafting sections? Or just comments after you've made your first draft?

Goblin Squad Member

New hosting works.

revisiting this after a long time, i'm impressed by how good it looks. Congrats! I also really liked the introduction and that you put the desynch section up front.

small nitpicks from the updated first impression:

-first paragraph page 17 (21 in the pdf) should be deleted once the pain has subsided.

-headers should show "part 2 - advanced feat training" and not just "part 2". You want this to be as easy to navigate as possible.

..and merry xmas.

Goblin Squad Member

Sorry i couldn't make it. Was participating in a xmas concert at the time. Good to see just enough people turned up so GW could get their answers to life, universe and everything.

Did you try headstacking to put snipers on the rooftops before the pvp?

Goblin Squad Member

Goes without saying that contest is for most items, not most screenshots.

Goes without saying that the largest guilds (in those 24 hours) have a clear advantage. Large for being the first, huge for making the most.

Goes without saying that Sspitfire may not be able to deliver the full reward immediately...

I like the twist that the value of the reward depends on the item. This would be very risky to offer if it was more than 24 hours (unless you know where to find 100 yellow/green or whatever is hardest to get nowadays).

now, what day is EE again?


Tom Benton wrote:

It doesn't seem like I'm going to get around to building this out myself, so I humbly offer to the jokesters:

Battle Axe Body Spray

that's not an item, that's an improved critical feat...


just borrowed a collection of Brother Cadafel stories (medieval monastery detective), which is currently waiting on the bed.

recently re-read Neal Stephenson 'Snow Crash' which is great if you remember the early days of internet.

linking Neal Stephenson and Cathar heresy, I can very much recommend the Mongoliad (although Stephenson isn't actually on the team for book 5 which is the one with catharites).

Goblin Squad Member

Do you have the raw data / distribution for how many items per node?

3.2 items per midden with skill 80 is significantly higher than my latest calculated 2.9 items per midden with skill 76 (including armor bonus). Different hex with different materials (lots of wool and quicksilver) might explain much of the difference - or it might be that one extra rank of training just is that much better.

I get 2 items only in 75-80% of the nodes, but in the rest i get 4,6,8 or 10 items (never seen odd number, never seen more than 10).
Is your higher average due to more of the 'good nodes', or because they are even better?

Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:

6 is the number. The number will be 6. Not 7. But 6. 5 is too low. 6 is the correct total.

My god I am bored. Someone please start another riot on the forums for me to watch?

mmmkay.. how about this idea: tab-targeting is automatically turned off if you SAD someone from stealth and the target has less than max reputation?

Goblin Squad Member

<Kabal> Daeglin wrote:

Bingo. I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy, but I believe there are at least 3 player-owned taverns that I have heard of so far.

Edit: Someone out there likely has a screen shot from the kickstarter showing exactly how many were pledged.

I'm too lazy to actually find the quotes, but Ryan has said once that not all inns are placed because some owners wanted theirs in hexes outside the EE zone. ie: KS count will eventually be right, but there will be fewer to find in EE.

I believe there were 3 inns on the Alpha 7 map (before the map expansion), there might(?) be some in the south too.


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Lord Snow wrote:
Paladins are not prone to fall from glory, so I would go with no.

But fallen paladins are generally prone to all sorts of things, so I say yes.

Goblin Squad Member

obviously graphics is needed, but we can comment on that when it is added.

page 1 bolded sentence (and again later on): "You should not.." is very strong. Consider rewording to "There is no benefit in.. "

links should be clickable

section "how to move": the 'R' is wrong font.

section "trainers for roles": rogues need dreadnaught but fighters don't need skirmisher? (are there changes i'm not up to speed with?)
Should add a short line saying higher rank training requires player settlements (even though that is obvious if you apply logic to the current text).

otherwise first readthrough looks good. (Must mean i've been in alpha too long to judge how new players would read it...)

idea: if it fits with the graphic design, some small textboxes repeating some key points ('looting is automatic', 'thornguards never forgive and forget','skill keywords need matching equipment keywords', 'credit is global, items are local' etc etc )

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Just like magnets...

Nihimon is obviously always right.

Here's how crafting points math works like magnets:

-all materials are diamagnetic and have a tendency to (weakly) oppose magnetic field, but unless they are purely diamagnetic the effect is hardly detectable. Some materials are para- or ferromagnetic and have a (much stronger) tendency to align themselves with the magnetic field, thus reinforcing it.

-all players have an intrinsic tendency to (weakly) oppose math. Some players are [insert appropriate words here] and have a (much stronger) tendency to align their thinking with the math, thus reinforcing it.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon, is the 1+2+3.. confirmed?
I mean, thats how I interpreted it too but does it actually work?

The only way I've found to check your total crafting points is to use the 'unavailable feats' tab at the trainers. Which doesn't really work for me since I now have enough points for everything they can offer.

Still, the basic ideas do not change:

1) you will have to craft some rank 0 recipes from unrelated crafts to get the crafting achievement points. You will not need any recipes or spending any xp, only raw materials and crafting time.

2) it is possible to make it with only +0 items (except in your chosen craft) and materials you can gather yourself, but if you have access to +x refined materials, you will get those points much quicker.

3) leather strips +3 to make a woven quiver is a quite cheap option (and even more if you get 10 points instead of 4), there are also others.

Goblin Squad Member

sspitfire1 wrote:
Are the green "Assignment" bits easy to read?

you could even give the green bits a different background colour (parchment-y light tan?) to separate even clearer from the main text body. This is addition to fonts and potentially tabbing (though probably not all at the same time - just saying there are options to try).

For some yet unwritten sections:

-XP budgeting. Make sure people understand xp is the ultimate limited resource in this game, that costs increase (pseudo-)exponentially, and there are no refunds. Dabbling and trying out stuff at lvl 1 is great, but going deep without a plan is not recommended.

-gathering and invetory management. Make sure people understand limited carrying capacity and items (potentially) destroyed on death. Make sure people understand local storage (and meaningful travel times). Tell them there are ways to increase carrying capacity, but the simplest is to store non-essentials in the bank.

-refining and crafting. Teach the basics, but I would not recommend people to go deep into crafting without a plan and a network.


Black_Lantern wrote:
There are very few people on the pathfinder forums that know how to code, let alone understand perl pseudo code. If you're going to post pseudo code you should probably orient it to look more like C.

if you really needed a translation:

IF(had fun==true) THEN (sufficientDPR=true)

While i'm interrupting: the OP seems to be asking for representative/generic average numbers as a benchmark. Some of you clearly got that, others seem to be answering a different question.

so.. if you guys are saying 15 DPR is representative for lvl 1, do you mean that a party of 5 lvl 1s should be able to consistently kill a (hypothetical level-appropriate) 70 hp monster in one round? If not, what are you saying?

Goblin Squad Member

Is it confirmed that engineer-made camps will have any storage at all?

I thought their purpose was power regeneration, and that storage was exclusive to the premium items (including taverns).

in the meantime, freeholder feats help with encumberace. With my rambler 5, donning my footpads+2 actually helps me carry more.

Goblin Squad Member

Settlements were moved in the last patch. Kindleburn certainly, i think some of the others too. The in-game map has all the current settlement and tower locations.

Goblin Squad Member

more graphics!

The settlement map (with dirt paths!) is brilliant. I suggest at least the paper doll and combat bar should have illustrations as well.

when you get to crafting, i'll have more opinions

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:


You claim PFO is a sandbox, but I don't think the word means what you think it means.

Maybe we need more words to distinguish. Certainly it's a buzzword that many want to slap on their product and so redefine it to fit.

The way Ryan has used it, I've consistently interpreted it as some sort of "anti-themepark", with the main keyword being emergence (not freedom).

Bascially, it's about Persistence (settlements, escalations, consequences) and Interaction (economy, pvp, settlement, solo-unfriendliness). Competing groups changing the world and the gameplay to make the game into something larger than just mechanics and flavour.

Freedom (as in open world, classless builds, etc) is lower down the list.


Kirth Gersen wrote:


Of course, from my point of view, the need for gender-segregated bathrooms, locker rooms, etc. is both antiquated and absurd -- but 99.9999% of the U.S. violently disagrees with me on that, so my opinions aren't really worth much in the grand scheme of things.

For the record, I agree with you - but i'm not in the US.

...except that I secretly enjoy when there's a long line for the women's restrooms and none for the men's.

The solution to the concrete problem here seems to be architecture: Rebuild to have individual restrooms.
Obviously that wonn't solve the deeper issue, though.

Personally I find this whole issue strange and slightly amusing (for wrong reasons), but it seems to be less about the actual equal rights issue and more about mayor vs churches power struggle.

obsessive nitpicking:

Vod Canockers wrote:


Since they want everything including ORAL, how exactly is he supposed to give them copies of conversations?

He's required to share all existing documentation (in the broadest sense, such as secret recordings) he may have of conversations. He's not required to create new documentation.

Goblin Squad Member

again a very good survey, Sspitfire
(at least for the issues you set out to investigate).

to me the key issue for EE is not so much such-and-such specific feature, but that the features claimed to be in are working meaningfully. Otherwise the impression quickly becomes that GW would like to sell me gold-painted kaka.

Features don't even have to work in their final form, as long as there is transparent info of how it actually works now + how it will work eventually.

Mouseover text "functionality for this skill has not been implemented" is ok, repeated or predictable server crashes are not.

Goblin Squad Member

Gloreindl wrote:
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Kadere wrote:
...(Braccas ad Libitum)...
Been a long time since Latin in middle school; is that "Trousers Are Optional"? What a great name.
I translate it as Pants of Pleasure, or Pleasure Pants lol

Ad-libing = Flying by the seat of your pants

some connection there? RP is also adlib...

Goblin Squad Member

Lee Hammock wrote:

The arcane language of math is the best way to summon an GW game designer

I remember the olden days when you just had to click your heels and yell "Lee Hammock, Lee Hammock, Lee Hammock!".

But of course, we didn't have official spreadsheets or alpha data back then.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
I wanted to interject quickly to say that I would not lime to see the term "carebear" used lightly in out community. I think it has loaded connotations.

sorry for derailing, but this puzzles me every time I hear it.

I've obviously used it wrong in all my MMO years (never been in Eve though). In my guilds, 'carebear' was someone who went out of their way to help newbs. Always non-gankers, but not necessarily avoiding 'fair' pvp. Basically someone with high social/low killer on their Bartle profile.

Call me a carebear and it'll most probably make me happy. But sure, i've avoided the term around PFO since it very obviously means something else to other people.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
(Seriously, the guys are telling me that turning Encumbrance penalties on is really just changing one line of code. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction!)

Turning them on is just one line, because the whole system was designed for encumberance from the start. Simply good project management.

If encumberance came as a surprise to the coders and items didn't have a weight(not just an unknown weight, but lacked an entry for weight), it would have meant updating every item and every function that handles items. Instead, I bet they've written the full encumberance system in from the start and just added a flag to turn it on/off.

So.. time to compile the lists of what each grade of gathered material weighs. And saying stuff like "dagger is the best weapon for a miner since it allows you to carry 2 extra ores" ;-)

(i was going to make a joke there about oneliners as turn-ons, but missed the opportunity. maybe next time.)

Goblin Squad Member

Probitas wrote:

...There are a few AAA developers out there that could learn a thing or two from that kind of attitude. Sadly it is also investors that normally drive a game launch into insanity and destroy company good will and the hope of a successful launch.

Agree. The GW decision seems absolutely to be the right one, but it wouldn't one Ryan could make unless there is money for the next month.

Just saying some of those other developers who rush their products don't do it to screw the customers or out of stupidity but because there's no better option.
I guess Ryan and Lisa might be pretty good at expectation management also when it comes to investors.

Goblin Squad Member

Just make sure you come back to the nerd threads number-cruncher discussions! Just because alpha is over doesn't mean stuff shouldn't be properly analyzed.

-foxglove


Rule as written seem clear that the Haversack is not a Bag of holding, at least not in this specific context.

1)
'Bag of holding' and 'Handy haversack' are listed as separate examples of extra-dimensional effect. This means the wording 'Bag of Holding' does not include 'Handy Haversack'.

2)
The claimed only exception refers to stuff happening "as noted in their descriptions". Bag of holding and Portable hole have this noted in their description, Handy haversack does not.

Whether houseruling the opposite would give a better(*) game is not a matter of interpreting what the rules say, but of taste.

(*) more fun, more logically consistent, more opportunity to railroad the group to the astral plan by means of clumsy npc's, whatever reason you have. I don't mind, it's your game.

Goblin Squad Member

2 people marked this as a favorite.

stealth to hide your icon from the minimap,
bluff or disguise to appear friendlier on the minimap,
- I like that idea.

Bluff would be countered by sense motive though, so that it would be a huge risk to try to bluff your way through any large group...

As for when the chaos of melee erupts: I will probably regret this, but so far I like the idea of no names unless you target them. If you want to identify your team, color coordinate. If the foes don same color to confuse you, that's a legit tactic - you can still use the minimap or target them and read their name.

Company tag. Yes I absolutely like that too, but adding a "right click to see all my (public) company tags and titles"-function would cover all noncombat needs without removing fog-of-war and subterfuge aspects.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.

a)

There should eventually be a map showing who lives in the monster home hexes (the ones with a lion icon on the map). But someone has to get around to making it first. Expect most settlements to know their ownneighbourhood monsters but not what lives 12 hexes away.

b)

Nightdrifter's calculators are teh best. For best value, you should have some kind of plan first and use the calculator to check prerequisites and costs. The list of available feats at any given time is huge.

Of course, the trainers in-game give you a list of available and unavailable feats that they can train. I find that the unavailable feats tab is great for planning the next step.

hmm... would it be a good idea to make a graphical "tech tree"? Sort feats by type, achievements and stats... any volunteers?

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

Sooo ... Now when I have crafted myself a nice and shiny Battleaxe+2 I can buy Chop-3, and be happy without any other fiddeling or doddeling with feat/stuff/whatever?

And more or less the only effect is increased base damage. Because I can't see anything really correspond to the three Keywords on my nice and shiny Battleaxe+2.

You are correct. Every matching keyword (attack level/keyword and weapon 'plus'/keyword) increases base damage by 5. You don't care what the keywords are called, only if they are the same both places.

So your +2 battlaxe with Chop lvl3 adds +10 base damage compared to chop1 and/or axe+0. For Chop (damage factor 1.1) that is 11 points damage for a full hit. The 25% interrupt chance and the +5 improved crit don't scale with keywords.

However there is another thing that increases, but you don't see it explicitly. If your attack applies a timed or stacking debuff like bleed, frighten, slow, etc, each keyword makes that effect 10% stronger.

If you buy Hew lvl3 for your axe+2, the Razed and Frightened stacks will be 20% larger than with Hew lvl1 (but not necessarily 48 stacks of Razed because the target's armors keywords pull in the opposite direction). This in addition to the +10 base damage.

Quote:


Did I mention that I have a Battleaxe+2 now?

can't remember

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:
The structure I have seen so far is a weapon+5 (that I get, or think I do) then there are stuff that has a +0 (improved critical for instance), do it mean something? Or is it just forshadowing? Redundat?

+0 is foreshadowing, but I want to complicate a bit since I think you maybe are asking about more things that were answered:

To be even more exact, Role Feature keywords improve Expendables
(sorry Dazyk!) Role features also have passive bonuses.

Example: with Heavy blade specialization 1, every attack with a heavy blade gets precise +5 (which is a +5 on the d200 attack roll), base damage +0 and improved crit +0. In addition any fighter maneuver (expendable) with the 'slashing' keyword gets a boost. The '+0' bonus gives you a whopping +0, but it makes sense to list it when you compare to higher levels:

With heavy blade specialization 5, the bonuses are precise +10, base damage +2 and improved crit +5, and you have 5 keywords to match your maneuvers.

Fighter features (weapon specializations) generally work the same way, and you don't actually need expendables to get good use from them.
For wizards, some features ("magic schools") give only keywords to boost their spell expendables, while others give some passive bonuses too (illusionist gives stealth, diviner gives percpetion, transmuter gives hitpoints). The different rogue features gives sneak attack under different conditions. Cleric domains can give energy resistance, skill bonus, defense or attack - or even a small speed bonus.

Goblin Squad Member

Swiss Mercenary wrote:

As a new player, I found that the game has a steep learning curve.

I did read quite a lot of the information out there, but I feel that there is some information that new players should be aware of and in short form it can be more helpful that telling them to go dig through the documentation out there.
Please feel free to add your points too or to ask questions.

quick comments:

Quote:


1) Do NOT spend any xp unless you are absolutely sure you need the skill/feat/profession etc.

Good advice, though spending a few hundred xp on various armor feats and all proficiencies is ok.

Quote:

2) Always have a distance weapon of some sort, be it a bow or magic.

3) 'R' is autorun, 'Ctrl' will make you sprint, remember running away from a fight is an option.
yes and yes
Quote:

4) Before purchasing anything that needs xp, ask yourself if you need it and have you researched it?

and: do you need it right now?

Quote:

5) There are no stupid questions on the General chat during Alpha, and indeed during EE, most of the players do not bite, though TEO might ask you for your soul.

we only ask so as to prove that actually you have one, we don't keep it.
Quote:

6) Quite a lot of bugs can be solved by logging out and waiting a minute or two, this can even fix the teleport bug.

yes. see Ryan's post. There are "true bugs" and there are server overload/desynch issues.
Quote:
7) You get basic attacks when equipping a weapon, these are enough to fight with it, unless you want to specialise more.
just remember to buy the basic weapon proficiencies
Quote:
8) Knowledge skills and gatherer skills at level 1 are cheap and indespensable, IMHO.

Cheap and useful, but you can also gather with lvl0 skill. Absolutely recommended though.

Quote:

9) DO NOT ATTACK THE THORNGUARDS, they never forget a name.

Do not attack anyone if there are guards nearby. Don't fight back if the wolf eats you.

Goblin Squad Member

T7V Avari wrote:
...while the elves have those awful ears.

well, look who's talking, round-ears!

Seriously, my elfs face is much more annoying to me than the ears (which look as expected for Golarion). Also, the running elf lack a certain... grace that you'd expect from elves.

Goblin Squad Member

Misteradd wrote:


By the way, I want to see how you can survive and grow up on your own.

You should be aware that the game is specifically designed to force people to cooperate. Doing things alone is supposed to be hard.

You don't need to ask people for "free stuzz plx", but can ask in general (in alpha, at least) if anyone is selling basic gear.

Quote:
even if I can manage two kobolds, I dont't think I would be vey useful to a group.

Wrong! The way the system is designed, any player is a useful addition. Two fresh characters with +0 longbows and the basic attacks do more dps than a top equipped and buffed lvl7 character. As long as have learned to stand back and only fire at the designated target(ie not pull extra groups into the fight), any group should be happy to have you.

Quote:
I'll try to move to another place. Any place of choice for a Sarenrae follower wanna-be ?

Brighthaven/Keepers Pass/Phaeros (in SE part of the map) are certainly three good places for Neutral Good characters. There are also others. Good luck!

Goblin Squad Member

Schedim wrote:

(last time I did something similar it was called MUD).

Welcome, friend!

Are you happy with the answers to your questions so far? Bascially your comments are bang on, but you are not the first to bring them up.

1)
Note regarding vendors: yes, players will be the vendors. Yes, AH prices are inflated because there is no money drain in the game yet. Yes, many groups are not even using the AH (but just stockpiling within the group).
On the other hand there are (in alpha) lots of players willing to give equipment out for free. Ask (but don't spam) in general chat.

Beer is hard to come by in the game, will weak sedative extract do? mix in some flammable and a drop of deadly extract if you need something more. Or an actual potion! Boots, trousers and something better than a club is easier.

2)
other Gromir/Misteradd specific questions:

-where to go: a player group! Help capturing towers, fight escalations and fuel our crafters. (I could gladly insert a 'Welcome to Brighthaven' ad here, but there are lots of other good groups too). Eventually we will have better trainers than the npc's too.

-crafting and auction UI: when the AH's fill up properly with goods it should be make more sense. Also some functions are not implemented yet (or were not last i tested). For questions about the crafting system, ask us in-game.

-the "second shortcut bars" are for expendables: spells and special maneuvers that are held by your 'implement' (spellbook, rogue toolkit, etc). You don't have any yet (and if you miraculously found one it will be in your inventory under 'all' as a recipe for learning).

Goblin Squad Member

looking forward to see someone trying the same with rogues. The subterfuge needed for level8 stealth is more than can be granted by weapon kills, and soloing subterfuge escalations is going to take time.

(Unless you can get a group to do the killing for you, possibly the fastest way is to equip a staff and AoE your way through the escalation. pure solo rogue i predict will be much slower than the other classes).

Goblin Squad Member

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sspitfire1 wrote:


Diminishing returns to population growth is basically what I am asking for (see my graph in the original post).

Not exactly what you ask for, but there is certainly a point where the same population would be (economically) better off by founding (or capturing) a second settlement and having twice as many building slots.

Also, the costs of building upgrades may scale exponentially, but that may favour big settlement populations more than small ones.

Goblin Squad Member

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Andius the Afflicted wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Last night I levelled a Fighter to 8th level using nothing but Feats from the Fighter College and the Dreadnaught school.

This statement, while technically true, is highly misleading. What he's not pointing out here is his build is full of skills that contradict eachother.

Well, I disagree. i certainly do not see the ability for a fighter to tank as contradicting the ability to dps melee or ranged. Nor the ability to use one weapon as contradicting the ability to use others. I don't quite see why you rate Archer as particularly useless when longbows was one of his two main weapons. (well, except that he didnt use any armors at all).

Do you see the game currently as having 12 separate classes? Do you plan to just use a single weapon and armor type for all your time in the game and see versatility as useless?

The point Ryan proves is that is you make a well-rounded character (similar to tabletop classes), then you don't need to spend xp on cross-class or crafting skills.

To me, the beauty of the current system is that it doesn't allow you to get ahead by narrowly specializing (and ignoring a big part of your role), yet allows to to meet the gating criteria with whatever combination you want. (I would not describe it as fully classless, but more like having 'fluid' classes instead or rigid ones).

The 'default' for rogues would be to get their wisdom from library skills, but they can replace some of that with scavenging or cleric feats.
The 'default' for fighters would be to get their con from training fighter armor and shield, but they can sacrifice some of that and pick up smelting/tanning/sawyer instead (or cleric armor).

Goblin Squad Member

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Hayato Ken wrote:


I´m not gonna send you cupcakes from europe though....

I'm sure Bonny can post a link to a local bakery where you can order online and have it delivered to her (or to GW office)

Goblin Squad Member

..and here are the results for 'average damage factor':

vs T1 vs T2 vsT3
T1 82% 59% 39%
T2 96% 82% 61%
T3 100% 96% 85%

Meaning, a T1 roll vs defense 50 on average does 82% of full damage, a T2 roll vs defense 150 on average does 61% of full damage, etc.

Assumptions: +0 attack bonus, +0 reflex bonus (except the 50/100/150 from armor). No crits.

T1vT1 has only 42% chance of a full hit (possible crit), where T3vT3 has a 58% chance of full hit.

Real numbers will be different, but the value of upgrading your armor is very obvious.
Note also that in reality higher tier players will have higher base damage, more hit points and higher protection. Time to kill an equally matched opponent will depend on how different bonuses scale.

(i was surprised to see the same 82% for T1 vs T1 and T2 vs T2, it seems that the square root skewness and the d200 skewness cancel out. Higher number for T3 vs T3 is as predicted).

I speculate that defense buffs like parry/block/evade are slightly better at T3 levels and attack buffs slightly better at T1, but the difference (like the 82% vs 85% avg damage) will be small.

Goblin Squad Member

randomwalker wrote:

I'd probably prefer the brute force in this case

scratch that. The analytical problem for the first part is simple enough i could do it with pen and paper while supposed to read work emails, so I'd probably try finesse before force (still no monte carlo though).

WARNING: CONTAINS MATH:

for 3 dN (with N^3 possible outcomes),
the #outcomes that has a certain dice=x is

#low(x)= (N+1-x)^3 - (N-x)^3
#high(x)= x^3 - (x-1)^3
#middle(x) = 6x (N+1-x) - 3(N+1) +1

The middle one was a bit tricky, so feel free to confirm it independently. Doing it for a d20 in excel gives a checksum of 8000 and the right averages in each column, though.

Goblin Squad Member

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sspitfire1 wrote:

The other main things you could note are these:

Tier 1 attacks are very heavily weighted towards the low end, with roughly 90% of your Tier 1 attack rolls coming up less than 100.

Tier 2 attacks are heavily weighted in the middle, with roughly 90% of attacks being between 28 and 174- and the bulk of that really being between 50 and 150.

Tier 3 attacks are heavily weighted in the upper end, with roughly 90% of your Tier 3 attack rolls coming up above 100.

This! (as was first pointed out before Nightdrifter made his first graph).

T1 attack vs 50 is more likely to miss by a low margin, but occasionally exceeds by a large amount. This is good for T1 vs T3, but unless crits have meaningful effects it slightly favours the defender in T1 vs T1

T2 attack vs 100 (well, 100.5) is symmetric, but compared to a straight d200 is less likely to have extreme high or low numbers.

T3 attack vs 150 is the reverse of T1: more likely to exceed but will occasionally fumble badly.

@Sspitfire:

1) IMO it would make more sense to:
a) plot probability densities (non-cumulative) to show the skewness of the distributions and give a better intuitive comparison of tiers.
b) compute the 'miss factor' (square root and all) vs 50/100/150 and plot that.
c) extended: integrate/average to show the average damage done for various scenarios.

Monte carlo is just one way of doing it. I'd probably prefer the brute force in this case - anyway you already have the probabilities, so moot point.

2) Never overestimate the audience (except when posturing at conferences). Imagine we are all journalists and politicians.

Goblin Squad Member

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FMS Quietus wrote:


Hmmmm.
This in reference to the RPG 'Paranoia?'

You win!!

Your prize is (rolls d20)...a frag grenade. Since you are not authorized to remove the pin, that has already been done for you. Have a nice day!

(it was actually one of the first rpgs i played. The GM never explained any rules, just told me stuff like "melee is kinda weak so i'll give you a nuclear warhead grenade too. That's probably the highest damage personal weapon in the whole game". Good, crazy times!)

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