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TEO Cheatle wrote:
"This jerky is sure tough""I didn't say jerky, I said jerkin. Put keep on chewing, it makes the leather softer"
Medieval tanneries were so foul-smelling they were placed outside the towns - I doubt anyone would want meat stored there.
jokes aside: yes, appetizing idea but not vital enough for the first few months.
I wanted to look at different weapon models, so 'attacked' a guildmate at the other end of town in order to get my weapons out.
Two minutes later he ran past me, and the attack went off. Ouch!
Also surprising that you can (at least could) attack yourself with melee weapons. (But quite useful for testing weapons and armor).
Wszebor Uriev wrote:
you were allowed to stay up until 4.30 AM?!
ps: no need to use your teeth, if you bang two flints together just right you can get a universal tool that's good for nearly anything.
I miss the old days when we had to carve our own dice from mammoth tusks. "1d4 with of damage" really meant something if you had the right throwing technique.
so true, so true.
nor do the older ones, actually.
I believe Lam's point is that more and more of the interesting forum discussion is happening at the Alpha forums and correspondingly less happens here.
I agree with Carbon: if you are interested in following the game closely at this stage, why not give it a free spin. (Just beware it is alpha and subject to large improvements in the next few months).
PM'ing anyone active in a major guild is likely to give you a free invite, since GW is now reaching the stage of alpha where they want to test what happens when you fill the game with players...
I think that finding the way to maximize a skill with a given XP budget might be a NP-class problem. Fortunately we have a relatively small O right now.
I think I agree, (but only because NP contains P, i'm not fully convinced about the N bit).
It should be "fairly straighforward" to calculate the most xp-efficient route to a given ability score treshhold. The "but i just need 0.01 more" complication only applies to the final stage, so that's just a one-time add-on.. or wait... duh! I see your point.
(gah, couldn't we have had this discussion 10 years ago, when I was into this type of stuff)
ps: but is it the right problem? isn't more relevant to minimize costs for a given skill level? Since costs scale the way they do it's very hard to 'squeeze in an extra skill level at the top' through efficient budgeting.
Whether to upgrade should not depend on this game in any way, but on the 3 eternal questions:
1- do you want to? (*)
(*) if you really really want to, men generally don't bother with the other two questions.
there is a world of difference currently between Int/Dex and Con/Per. Hopefully that will change when ranger/barbarian and sorcerer/bard are implemented
If you want to focus exclusively on being a Tanner, well.. getting your Con high enough means investing heavily into just about every con-based skill.
I fail to see a rational explanation why learning to wear Light Armor (Chameleon, Scout, and Swashbuckler are the most efficient ways for a Wizard to raise Dexterity) should help me learn to wear Clothing Armor better (Clothing Armor Proficiency 2 requires a 12 Dexterity).
ninjaed by Urman, but yeah: after being forced to run around in tight leather pants, going back to your robes feels just so much better. (Though by that rationale, rogues should need to train medium armor to build dex for their light armor skill..)
..maybe pretending to be a rogue puts you in the right mindset to "unlock your inner dexterity" ?
KoTC Edam Neadenil wrote:
The first division was into "primae minutae", the next into "secundae minutae", ie first minutes (= small things) and second minutes.Within short time (but not minutes) this was shortened to "minutes" and "seconds".
(ie: Blame the users, not the design)
why are we discussing time again?
gahh.. bad wording. Try again: Just like for attacks, each matching keyword gives a stacking bonus. (For armor: hitpoints and other bonuses, for attacks: damage).
* basic dagger strike keyword progression:
* dwarven steel dagger keyword progression:
essentially basic dagger strike scales like this:
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Apart from the gating, the point of buying higher armor levels is to get access to more keywords. Just like for attacks, each matching keyword gives hitpoints and potentially other bonuses.
The keyword progressions were in the spreadsheets at some very early stage but I cannot find them now.
now compare this to an armor such as Strapped leather, which has the keywords: |Masterwork, organic|light/stealthy/agile/reinforced|
By comparing the lists, you see that a rogue with
Bascially: a Chameleon would want the highest 'plus' Strapped his training would allow. Scout/swashbuckler would use a +1 strapped in a pinch but rather have Boiled leather.
the way it looks to me, there are "3 main parts" to a character:
-weapon and attack feat
In addition there is utilities, saves, hitpoints/power, skills, crafting etc etc.
Of the "main 3" you can slot only one at a time, but you can combine different roles.
- You can, for example, slot fighter armor feat, fighter attack feat (weapon specialization) and cleric expendables (spells). You need to keep up with both martial achievements and divine achievements, and you will need to train the full 'class levels' to unlock some skills, so you will lag behind, but you can do it.
- The worn equipment must match the slotted feat. Axe specialization and holy symbol is an obvious mismatch, but armors also need to be keyword-matched as far as possible.
- Weapon swapping... as far as i know (help please?), switching weapon switches attacks but not attack feat. You could have focus weapon and axe, but your orisons would not be very powerful if you have axe specialization slotted. No idea how shields work.
Agree with the provisio that idea 4) is not to add new training options to a settlement, just adding convenience by offering the already available skills at multiple locations.
Please also make trainers visible on the minimap (and distinguishable from guards). Not seeing buildings nor trainers on the map makes it pretty useless for navigating a settlement!
In the tooltip (to come) for each skill, add info on what trainer can teach it.
as i commented, there is an inherent self-selection in all surveys of this type, but I suspect the intro questions are there for
(I guess you are planning to look for correlations/anti-correlations, bimodal distribution etc and not just averages/totals. I for one would be curious to see if you can group responses into 'PvE' and 'PvP' groups or if there is a full continuum. Also it could be interesting to see if there is clear correlations in the top/bottom priorities).
i'd say you can do both, but will have to narrow/specialize in both roles. You will lag behind the specialists but I currently believe (hope?) that lag will be less apparent as we reach higher levels and the power curve flattens out.
Very rough rule of thumb is that half the xp cost of lvl 20 put you somewhere around lvl 15-17, so you could think of it as "fighter16/weaponsmith16" vs "fighter20" vs "weaponsmith20"
For the adventurer, the difference between 16 and 20 is 1-2 extra keywords in play (if you have top notch gear). For the crafter, though, it may be the difference between having and not having a key t3 recipe.
Note that Refiners and Crafters can be 100% dedicated alts just sitting safely in a settlement. Expect most large guilds to have 100% dedicated crafter characters. Gatherers on the other hand actually need to stay alive in the field, so there is good synergy between adventuring and gathering.
Stephen Cheney wrote:
I suppose this is good enough for now, seeing as you may have other stuff too on the to-do list.
After a weeks the cold start problems should be over, so the issue may more or less resolve itself.
looking in the GW "sample crafting and refining" guide, i see a lot of seemingly basic recipes that require (IMO) disproportionally high refining ranks to make.
example1: footpad's leathers. This appears to be the "starter rogue armor" given at leatherworker rank 2 , but requires a weaver rank 7 padding. For comparison the starter fighter armor (hide and steel banded) only requires rank 3 components. Reaching weaver level 7 is a significant xp cost, and players at these levels have likely outgrown rank 2 armors...
example2: introductory trophy charm. This appears to be the "starter fighter feature item" given at jeweler rank 1, but requires smelter rank 6 silver bars.
Question: are item ranks for refining equal to the minimum skill level for making them, or can you make them at lower skill (given the recipe) just using correspondingly longer time?
these three skills match the bulk construction resources very well:
Blacksmith -> bulk iron ore
I expect the 3 skills are for constructing buildings (settlements/PoI). So far unknown how they interface with Architect (and siege engineer...)
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
I don't like the term 'Chaos' here. 'Freedom' and 'Deregulation' have good sides, but 'Chaos' is almost by definition negative - Webster synonyms include Mess and Havoc.
In the same way, 'Lawful' is too positive. Less rosy alternatives are: Bureaucratic, legalistic and conforming. (And netural good is obviously the best alignment).
Chaotic settlements should be allowed to rename the 'Law-Chaos' axis to 'Bureaucracy-Freedom' in forum discussions.
to the topic: economic warfare is good, but trying to evade consequences is ...bad sportsmanship. Shame on the ninja locust! Shame I say!
Master of Shadows wrote:
a fighter does not forget how to swing a sword, a cleric does not forget how to wear armor, a rogue does not forget how to pick locks, and a wizard does not forget how to prepare spells simply because they moved away from home...
And major league baseball players would keep the same batting average if they trained with a soccer team for a season?
Taking away things I have spent a significant amount of time and energy developing is a pisspoor mechanic from a customer service standpoint.
Having your settlement razed - that is loss of significant time and development. Having to find a new place to live within a month or some skills are temporarily disabled - not really so much.
(And if anyone ends up in the situation where no established settlement will take them, then the real problem isn't the loss of skills).
Ryan Dancey wrote:
But... that only works if the company actually listens to the players, and everybody knows tha... oh, right. This is Goblinworks - talking to them is actually very likely to work.
To paraphrase (with great artistic liberty): We don't believe this will be an actual problem. If so happens, we'll deal with it.
I don't quite follow. If the harvesters are unaffilated, how many players could you end up in combat with? (ie what is the max "party size"?) Five? You don't get to say "me and THIS army" if you are unaffilated.
Giving ninja harvesters the criminal flag lets defenders pick the fight if they want to, and might even (?) have npc guards respond. If you see "getting the criminal flag cheaply so you can bait defenders" as an advantage, we see it differently. Settlements can obviously legalize it if they prefer.
Blue blocking requires collision detection between non-hostiles. Is that in the game? (if so, blocking building access will be more annoying than mushroom guarding). Also, blue blocking isn't very successful at protecting from ranged attacks in a tab-target game.
KarlBob, some weeks ago wrote:
I expect/suggest/hope that monks and barbarians get this some way into their armor feat line. Not tabletop monk speeds, but a small increase (+10% ish). Certainly less than a mount.
But: In tabletop, barbarians and monks typically use their speed to get into melee, not for kiting. There would have to be a way to prevent evoker monks from dominating pvp and pve.
I have vague memories (or not given my age), but Nihimon for the actual reference! Or sometimes KC.
I find the problem isn't so much remembering stuff that was stated by devs, as forgetting all that was speculated by forumites and avoiding mixing them up.
so.. why did Buurz marry that fish again?
Harad: I must say I am impressed with the amount of work you put into preparations. Your maps have been praised multiple times, but let me restate it's a privilege to play with a GM who takes such pride in quality preparations. (And with the latest gobbocasts i even got a face and voice to go with the text...)
You may all meet Foxglove in game - she is likely to be an elf, mostly travelling around the southeast map during GMT prime time (based somewhere in the Bri/KP/Phae trinity), but with great ambitions of traversing the entire map and visiting every settlement during EE.
Black Silver of The Veiled, T7V wrote:
ugh... someone in Alpha has already started 'Griefing' activity. Shame on you. Hope you get it out of your system before EE starts if not, I hope the 'Ban Hammer' hits you repeatedly.
From a different angle: GW prioritized these changes to the game in this extremely hectic period because of one single griefer.
Whether the griefing was an "experiment" or not, the response from GW is encouraging.
Find Cheatle's guide, or the GW alpha crafting guide. Sorry for not providing links (short coffee break at work only).
That should give a list of skills, but the production lines are not completely straightforward.
miner -> smelter -> weaponsmith & armorsmith
but miners may also find crystals, weapons also need leather grips or wooden hafts, etc. etc.
The items have to be good to fetch that kind of money. As Edam implied, there will be enough crafters rushing to craft equivalent items (either to make money or to close the percieved power gap)
But the description of smallhold makes me wonder how Taverns will work in order to be worth that much more.
Democracy doesn't have to be absolute democracy nor direct democracy. Bascially (according to Popper and myself) it simply means that leadership is accountable to the people and can be controlled/replaced by them without needing to change the system (as opposed to a dictatorship/tyranny, where revolution is needed).
Democracy by representation is good enough for reality, and the government/administration/board/council can be fully accountable without everyone meddling in day-to-day affairs.
One feasible way of organizing a functional 'democracy' is by means of electing representatives for various committes and/or a centralized government. In practice, settlements and guilds will be divided into subgroups anyway which make logical units.
Mechanically, it is not possible to enforce unless GW give mechanisms that allow transfer of power (formal guild/settlement leadership) without the consent of the current holder. This was previously discussed in the context of settlement leaders going AWOL and crippling the settlement, so I'm sure there have been some thinking around the issue. On the other hand, if you need to enforce democracy it isn't a very good democracy in the first place.
My best solution: find a leader you trust, and talk to him/her as needed. (If large organization: make a hierarcy of such leaders).
I would like to see the story come to some kind of conclusion, though I would would be ok with fast-forwarding and summarizing a bit to move the plot along quickly.
I am still intrigued by the story hook - the statuette, insane dwarves and the mysterious 'one in the water'.
On the other hand, you playing Alk as npc requires Dezi and Cat to take a more active role to compensate - so I'm only for continuing with a solid buy-in from everyone.
The cat is very intriguing, but moves too much in the background. If we go on, there should be a revelation scene so we can establish Cat as a proper party member.
Similar problem cropping up for wizards. Eg. to get level 8 wizard requires Mage 6 which requires Clothing Armor Proficiency 2 which requires Dex 14.
Dex for wizards and Wis for rogues is much easier to train by taking cheap levels of adventuring and trading skills. Con is harder based on the current data.
(Ironically, I expected Rogues to be the most MAD class, but it turns out they may be the least).
Stephen Cheney wrote:
so.. to sum up & dumb down (feel free to correct):
There are 3 independent keyword systems here, each linking something you trained (and slotted) with something you have equipped.
It feels weird to think of spellbooks, holy symbols and thieves tools as 'expendables', but this is how I understand Stephens response.
on the topic of keywords, can someone confirm how the keyword system works?
Does the attack and fighting style independently look for equipment keywords?
ie: Assuming my dagger is piercing, precise and light, does that mean I get:
(btw.. can I slot both specializations or only one?)
Ex: if a unbreakable14 fighter wore an armor with all 8 keywords matching, would he gain 8x35 bonus hp, 8x2 fortitude bonus, etc ?
Ryan Dancey wrote:
...you may find that you rarely pay attention to Achievements until you're very close to earning one and then maybe you adjust your play a bit to close it out.
Thanks, good to see the same message reinforced. But: I would definitely pay attention to achievements if I can't advance to the next level because I lack points.
Now, I don't expect that to be the case until lvl 16 or so. Then the question is "what % of total achievements to i need to max the role"? If there are 1000 martial achievements in the game, it isn't a problem. If there are only 500, getting 400 of those likely means blademasters must go out and get the "kill 1000 mobs using a greatclub" achievement.
Ryan's comment suggests (but isn't crisply clear to me) there will be enough achievements laying around that achievements won't be the bottleneck.
The corner case is gathering skills: if I want to gather materials but not craft, the bottleneck for advancing my skill is definitely the craft achievements.
1) Craft achievements.
2) other achievements.
What is the crucial piece of info I'm missing here?
-Is it that i can get 75% of the achievement with 1% of the work, so that the grind doesn't start until the endgame, and the powercurve there is so flat I shouldn't worry if don't like it?
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Don't worry about it. I read all the ideas and if I think that something is too close to a feature that will be in the game I usually take action.
so.. is Ideascale then only for new and original ideas?I thought the crowdforging was also (more!) about priorities ("I want this before that") and not just brainstorming.
Three quick points from the devil's advocate: