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Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber. 4,971 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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I'll definitely be buying the hardcover (and possible future hardcovers)

Whether I pick up AP's will entirely depend on the subject of the AP (which is my default setting now for Pathfinder). My guess is I will probably not subscribe to two AP's at once, but may subscribe to a Starfinder AP when I don't like the subject of the Pathfinder AP line.

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the constraints on ap length are less of mechanical problems than they are of development and profit. I think there is 0 chance that AP length will vary from the existing pathfinder one, as well as what levels get covered.

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so uh HBOnow went down right when the new ep was suppose to come online. This is not encouraging people to pay 14 bucks a month for the service...

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Lord Fyre wrote:
Rovewin wrote:
Is Starfinder going to be, in part, the proving ground for future mechanics of a PF2?
You're not the first to speculate that.

Practically every non CS book for the last few years gets this speculation.

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I don't see hardcover Starfinder books hurting Pathfinder too much. Pathfinder I feel has honestly reached a point of its development cycle where most of the low-hanging fruit have been picked, and and only producing 2 or 3 hardcover books a year for Pathfinder, allowing at least 1 Starfinder hardcover a year or something, wouldn't hurt the game, and may even help its long term viability.

I do worry about the AP lines however; People's budgets (not to mention time) stretch only so far, and I don't see myself having the money and time to subscribe to both AP lines + CS. I would imagine that I would probably only subscribe to Starfinder when the Pathfinder AP line covered a topic I wasn't interested in (I unsubscribed for the current AP because I am not interested in evil campaigns).

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Another round of North and South American creatures:


Iara/Uira/Yara = water nymph from Brazil; green hair and pale skin; connected to freshwater; song can enchant men who will devote themselves completely to that person; can be distinguished by blowhole in back of neck; immortal

Ibeji/Eres/erere/minimos = Brazil; impish spirits that possess initiates to local yoruban derived cults; inhabit wooden figurines. Act as messenger servants.

Ichik Ol’quo = Aymara/Quechan; resembles a hairy 6 month old baby; always angry; growls; inhabits the freshwater on high plateaus in Bolivia; pale, naked with round faces and large eyes, bellies, and arms; clear skin; white glowing hair; taloned feet

Iemisch/Hymche = Patagonian water tiger cryptid; otter like beast, covered in a brown fur coat studded with bony armor; no external ears on a short head with large fangs; long depressed and prehensile tail; the size of a big cat, but far stronger; can drag a horse into the water; amphibious in habits, equally capable of moving around on land as in the water;

Ihasikitse = Caddoan; “Lost Elves”; Winged dwarfish beings, strong stout and nocturnal; formed from dead lost people; dwelt in hollow trees and inhabited bamboo thickets; whirlwind magic

Ijiraq = Shadow people/shapeshifters from Inuit folklore; abduct and hide children, spread confusion; believe to exist between life and death, and to be the descendents of humans which traveled to far north and entered the world of the dead; cannot be looked at directly

Ikal-hua = Macro-mayan Death god and his children; skinny, ugly, imp-like beings which stood three feet tall and were covered in curly black hair; erect, animal like ears with a long thing toes and fingers; winged feet; cannibals; associated with the air and black winds; dwell in caves and come out at dusk to look for victims; afraid of holy water

Ikuutayuuq = Inuit; monstrous aquatic brothers; torture and kill victims they capture by drilling into them

Illa/Ylla = Peru; giant golden-horned black water bull; protects cattle and kills rustlers; can hypnotize other cattle; lacks hooves, but has webbed feet; herbivore, but territorial, and known to kill people by upsetting there boats or directly attacking them; sometimes described as having more fish-like hindparts

Imap Umassoursa = Inuit; Giant island like sea creature which resembles a flat island when it surfaces; can be detected by the shallowing of water; capsizes boats to kill their occupants in the freezing water, after which it eats them

Immawari = Akawai South America; bush spirits whose mouths are located in the stomach, and have immense tusks growing from them

Indacinga = Ponca Native American; Forest dwelling giants; destructive, enjoy rooting up trees, destroying houses, and eating children; communicate by hooting

Inipi = Numic Rock Babies; also a name for the soul; black, hairy, androgynous dwarves; can cause whirlwinds; dwell within the earth and gamble with Coyote for doves; can move through solid rock and acted as death omens for infants; can make pictographs which if touched cause sleep or death

Inulpamahuida = Mapuche; monstrous evil walking tree; no roots; climbs and moves about with its long flexible tree limbs; greatly feared by local

Ipupiara = Tupi South American; sea-lion like merfolk; set of forelimbs and a mermaid like tail; 15 feet long and scaly, with a muzzle filled with whiskers; Suffocated and crushed humans by hugging them; primitive and brutal; female form more attractive. Eat the soft parts of their prey

Ishigaq = Inuit; 1 ft tall little people, similar to fairies; so light in weight that they left no footprints or evidence of their passing

Inda’cinga/Istinike = Siouan; Large-headed owl-like trickster beast; long hair; emits owl like hoots; inhabit rugged mountains; creates fruits and vegetables from itself; neutralized by light

Inupasugjuk = Inuit; Arctic sexually dimorphic giant; mysterious; treat humans as play things

Inurulvt-kikit/inuArul v talit/Inuarutdligkat/Inuragudlit/Innuarolit/Inuquillit = Chugash; 1-3 ft tall little people with bald, pointed heads; hairy like fox; crazy; very strong and courageous; bow-legged with small feet; yellow skin with black eyes; coastal and hunt at sea for whales, seals, and salmon; dress like innuit; often friendly and like to smoke, play pranks, sing, and race; could change size at will; dwell in coastal barrows with invisible entrances; can become invisible if a person breaks sight contact with them. Allies of shamans

Invunche = Chilean abberation; occurs in two forms, the Invunche, a giant underground bladder shaped being with twisted limbs, and the Trelquehuecuve, a clawed octopus like creature with many eyes arrayed on ear like fins and on separate tentacles. The Invunche is a vampiric sapient creature, while the Trelquehuecuve serves as it's minions, acting as guards and bringing it food. Also served by Chivatos, Feral cannibals raised from birth from abducted children. Invunche dwell in caverns deep underneath the earth, connected to deep lakes. They are sorcerors, and may also collaborate with human warlocks, who provide them with Chivatos. May also be created from a Chivato

InYuarolliq = Alaskan Innuit; foot high humanoids with bird-like feet and owl heads; dwell underground in the tundra

Iqsiniraq = Innuit Alaska; short troll-like creatures

Ircenrraq = Innuit; animal-faced sprites who inhabit nelson island; give luck and share food with those in need; dwell underground, where seasons are reversed and time moves more slowly

Iskayhuahua Supay = Ge-pano South America; monster with a tiger’s body and the head of an elf

Isserkrat = Innuit; dwarves with one, large eye, that blinks lengthwise

Isti-Papa = Creek/Natchez/Seminole NA; Giant carnivorous monster, described as either bear –like or cougar-like; predator of men

Its'te-ya-ha = Native American "stick indians" dressed in dearskin, long hair, small eyes, and wrinkled skin; disproportionately strong; abduct livestock

Itseke = Kalapalo Brazil; malevolent spirit of sickness; living miasmas of fear and death that seek to steal the souls of the dying; can throw magical darts which cause a range of effects including disease and insanity, and may ally with and hunt alongside witches to bring down victims; fond of skin diseases and targeting children

Jabunni Estan = Navajo; Bat woman, giant human-sized bat with myriad of bats suckling attached to, suckling from her; help the Navajo hero twins after they were stranded on a mesa after defeating the Thunderbirds

Jackalope = Jackrabbit-Pronghorn hybrid; can mimic voices

Jasy Jatere = Guarani SA; fairy like being, child-sized, pale skinned, with blue eyes and blond hair; usually nude, but carries a magical staff; dwells in the wild. Generally benevolent, but takes naughty children into the woods, removes their eyes, and feeds them to Ao Ao. can become invisible; powerless if staff is stolen

Je’-rouge = Haitan; werewolf spirits who can possess people and transform them into cannibalistic canine monsters; attempt to steal children to transform into more of their kind, but must get the mother’s permission; actively spread their curse

Je su chin = Hokan; black imps which inhabit Mount Shasta; punish disrespectful actions by causing a condition of being permanently lost, scaring people, and or driving them crazy.

Jiques/Guijes = Cuban; mischievous, ugly black dwarves, 2ft tall; scaly; flattened and frog-like head; powerful claws, big bellies, short feet, breastlike navals. In build a mixture of monkey and dwarf. Live in river holes.

Jokao = Iroquois/Seneca = humanoid cannibal monsters covered with stony scales. Originally were a tribe of humans who in winter turned to cannibalism to survive, and mutated into monsters

Kacivoreri = Macro-Arawakan; luminous black winged, tailless imps; drip red and yellow glowing globes; feed on blood-sucking insects

Kahino’a = Huron; ancient dwarves with ducklike feets and jointless arms; dwell in the caves of the dead after being driven there by Europeans; dressed in clothes made of hide and hair;

Kajutaijuq = Inuit; nocturnal monster that takes the form of a giant human head which runs about on short stubby cloven hoofs; tattooed; devour all they come across and strong enough to burst through igloo walls in pursuit of prey

Kakaka/Akoka = Hokan; three foot tall spirits with round heads and no noses; dwell in deserts, making Cliffside dwellings with small openings; eat very little food, mostly eat a specific kind of cherry; loud yelling voice; can control the wind and walk up walls; can travel in whirlwind form; can augment another person’s magic; can control deer; secretive, punish those who tell about them with painful cramps;

Kanaima = Carib; Evil spirits which assassins and sorcerers looking to revenge a loved one can take into themselves, turning them animalistic and filling them with rage. Uncontrollable; seeks the slow death of its prey, and will remove tongues and knot intestines together; must be exorcised within three days of the intended targets death, or it drive it’s host insane unto death

Kanontsistontie’s = Iroquois; undead flying heads; appear as huge, disembodied heads with fiery eyes, huge fangs, and long tangled hair; fly through the air to hunt down and consume people; form from murder victims, either the severed head of a person slain, or emerge from mass graves; may also form from cannibals or act as primordial monsters from the dawn of creation; associated with whirlwinds; ravenously greedy and hungry, and sometimes killed if tricked into eating fire

Karaisaba = Warao Venezuala; tree-dwelling one-eyed ogre, with a single luminous eye; nocturnal; sucks the eyes from its human victims

Karuru = Dominican Republic; Dwarfish zombie

Kashehotapolo = Choctaw Deer-woman; two-legged deer below the waist, human above; short; shriveled small heads; dwell in swamps; super-fast

Kasonkati = Macro-Arawakan demon that takes the form of a tapir or little old man; hollow knees that produce eery whistling

Kat/Baruxes/A’lus/katob/Arushes = Macro-Mayan guardian of the mounds; resemble pottery figures; helper spirits made of clay

Kawas = Hokan; small birdlike humanoids with paw like hands; nocturnal bogeymen; communicate with grunts and lack fire; feed on abandoned children

Kawtcho/Ayayema = Alakaluf SA; evil night prowling beast; a tall brawny humanoid figure with sharp claws and covered in nail-like hair; dwelled underneath the ground and emerged at night, hunting along beaches; attacks from behind, devouring the eyes of it’s victims and killing them; marked by a horrid stench of rot, and afraid of light

Kci-Athussos = Maliseet/Passamaquoddy; lake dwelling great horned serpent; eats humans

Keelut = hairless underground dwelling dog beast from Inuit myth; opens up holes in the ground and drags it's victims beneath the earth to feed; can close holes without leaving a trace; cowardly and always ambushes victims, but can be scared off

Kelenken = Aonikenk SA; giant black bird of prey, brother of the evil spirit of the cold; gave its name to a genus of terror bird

Kelok = Miwok; winged giant; can heat objects; when killed by Coyote, his corpse caught fire and burnt the world

Kikituk = Innuit familiar; takes the form of an immense reptilian dog, with a massive maw and numerous teeth. It’s bite could heal or kill; Shamans use them in territorial battles; stored in the stomach of a shaman, which it emerges from at the Shaman’s command

Kfwi-tta/ = Canadian/Alaska NA; “War Feathers”; secretive little folk; warlike and very strong, despite size; drove humans from their lands; dwell in coastlines; hunt caribou and bears; pretty birds

Kilwe = California NaDene; silvery, foot-tall spirits; voices sound metallic and bodies shine-like tin; can become incorporeal; dwell in streams and lakes;

Kin’i /Queng’a skina, Queng’ah dnayi = Canadian/Alaska NA; Household weasel spirit; green and shingled

Kiwahkw/Giwakwa = Passamaquoddy; cannibalistic undead ice giants; created from corpses brought back to life by witches; morphed into ice giants after eating three people; intelligent and can speak, form tribes

Kiwolatomuhsisok/Geow-lud-mo-sis-eg = Native American fey; mischievous little people; sometimes help with household chores; like to braid things; live by water

Kokopelli = Pueblo/Kiowa; race of rabbit/locust/dragonfly creatures; possess antennae, rabbit-like ears and tail; long-pointed nose; associated with the rain; dwell in deserts; represent regeneration and fertility; also considered a game-keeper

Ko-lok = Mewok NA; Winged cannibal giant

Kolowa = Creek NA; Gorilla-like hairy, man-eating ogre

Kolowisi = Zuni; benevolent aquatic feathered serpent; fins the length of his body; save people from the flood, by providing them food and water; dwells underground within the aquifer; considered sacred; shapeshifter who can also change his size

Konakadet = Canadian/Alaska NA; Copper women; spirits of creek heads; appears as a toad or small women with curly gray hair; can kill people who annoy them with volcanic eruptions; can sing a mourning song; consider frogs her children

Koneso = Macro-Carib; small rabbit-folk; good jumpers and powerful shamans; reproduce like rabbits; immune to sticks and arrows; excellent escape artists.

Kooshda/kushtaka = Tlingit NA; Land Otter People; shapeshifters who trick people and drown them; carnivorous; may intermarry with people; can turn people into Kooshda if they are fed kelp and fish prepared by a Kooshda; can only eat raw food; sometimes save people from drowning however. whistling speech

Konase’/Black Water People = Yucatan; small female dwarves, with krinkly hair and small feet; prey on humans; pull prey into water and kill them; can control whirlwinds; dwell in caves;

Ku’ksu = Penutian wood spirit; takes the form of one-legged man with feathers, or a long mammal with short legs

Kuil-Kaax = Mexican/Mayan folklore; dwarfish nature spirits; kind and gentle, protected animals in the forests; wore palm leaf sombreros

Kuilob-kaaxob/Zaqui coxol/Uyumil gasob = Macro-Mayan; owners of animals, mountains, and jungles; dwarfish spirits associated with rainbows, spider monkeys, and curassows; resemble tiny, fat humans; wears a red breastplate and sandals, and dresses in silver; can be benevolent but very exacting and dangerous; can control wild boars

Kukwes = Mikmaq NA; greedy and hairy bear-headed man-eating ogre; up to 20-30 feet tall; carry off children to eat in sacs

Kupe-dyeb = Apinaye Amazon; Monstrous tribe of large bat people who encourage human tribes to fight so they can feed on the dead and dying of the conflict; dwell in a remote mountain cave hard to access by travelers; if not kept fed will attack neighboring peoples for food; can use weapons; no one who has ever ventured to their cave and returned alive

Kurupi = Guarani folk beliefs; short, hairy monster that dwells in forests and takes care of animals. Enormous serpentine penis that wraps around his body. Can send it into houses to impregnate young women. Could also lure women into the forest to satisfy their desires.

Kutzcata/Topi = Kariri-Tupi South America; small (six inch high) dwarves with long white beards and body hair; personify rain and thunder; fly swiftly using magic gourds; wear lip ornaments and parrot feathers; make thunder with singing and dancing; fire lightning bolts

Kwanokasha/Kowi Anukasha = Choctaw; forest dwelling little people, often associated with light; reclusive and only typically seen by shamans; will lure lost children into their caves, where they offer the choice of a knife, bad herbs, and good herbs to the child; if they choose the knife, they will grow up to be a murderer; the bad herbs a worthless person who will not accomplish anything, and the good herbs a powerful doctor or shaman

Kwayu/Chaup/Cuy-a-ho-marr = Fire Ogre of the southwest; boyish looking demon associated with ball lightning and meteors; could take the form of a flaming fish, comet, or small boy; feeds on the ground up bodies of children; death omen; originally only one individual, but made more of his kind with white rock and fire

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Muser wrote:

I'd be pretty glad if nothing from this thread gets in. No offence, guise, but I want a fresh start.

However, since my soap box is out, might I suggest some kind of interstellar development for the Azlanti prison colony on Somal? Might be cool to have Absalom Station's very own demon pirates.

Apparently the moon disappeared alongside Golarion, based on the Know direction interview with James Sutter

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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:

You are absolutely right if we assume modern technology, but this is the far future. If you can make an android and a realdoll, you can make an android that is a realdoll. Highly advanced Artificial intelligence can be as creative as highly advanced naturally occurring intelligence. Remember that Androids in the Finderverse have souls. This is in addition to the fact that there are real composer programs right now which can compose music, and whose compositions humans cannot...

It's not really a realistic depiction of the future. It's a magical setting IN SPACE that has a lot of built in plot hooks. I think if you are hoping that it's going to capture an authentic/realistic depiction of the future, you are probably going to be really disappointed.

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I really hope nothing resembling Star Trek's pakleds shows up in Starfinder.

Hah...I could see Goblins in space setting be very Pakled like (only with more fire).

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"Serenity was one of our most important inspirations"

- Somewhere Freehold has fallen onto his knees and is screaming obscenities at the Gods.

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assuming that race stat design is not significantly altered (and i don't think it will be), I don't really think elves are all that important. I would rather see new races or races that are bare bones get more love.

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The existence of Babylon 5 doesn't mean the Babylonian Empire was still kicking around on that show. It might simply have been named after an important ancient city.

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I'm not a huge fan of musicals myself (Moulin Rouge is pretty much the only one I have enjoyed as well) , but stage fright was actually pretty good (A gorier, musical Final Girls really), and there are probably less musical numbers than in say...Moulin Rouge (a few of the numbers are actually part of the play within the movie, and I think most of the kills/attacks are not set to musical accompaniment). And the kabuki mask clad killer looks pretty cool. But I'll leave it at that for now.

So what cool horror/genre films have you seen lately? And are there any particular ones I should avoid?

Did you see the Conjuring sequel? is it worth watching?

Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber just occurred to me that we can finally have a god whose favored weapon is a boomstick

this pleases me...

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Might have a long while to wait, since so far Ganzi only exist in one softcover campaign setting book. I wouldn't expect too much else until they show up in a Bestiary or similar hardcover

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yeah APs are adventures that mostly operate on "easy setting". 15 PB for most groups really won't heavily impact their ability to play through the path.

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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:

The idea of anyone having a large number of slaves, or indeed any biological manual laborers, in the distant future is as ludicrous as having combat still be dominated by swords and chainmail. It would make sense only in locales where there is not very much technology, and Space Cheliax would not be such a locale.

Now, it is possible that the people making the setting will realize this and have most of the slaves be AI (including androids), which would fix the problem so long as only the devout of Asmodeus put complicated AI in charge of easy work just to be evil.

However, I definitely do not trust anyone from Paizo to care enough to be careful about that issue, so I suspect to see a thinly veiled rebranding of Cheliax somewhere in the galaxy, whose history includes descent from Cheliax proper, and which practices slavery on biological beings rather than building machines which will do the job monumentally better without being fed, watered and allowed to sleep and who you can easily program to never try to escape and indeed to never defy you in any way.

Lots of things don't make "sense" but still exist, technology be damned. Slavery is great if you want cheap labor and don't have any concerns over basic human decency. Slaves create new slaves, require a minimal amount of care, and are cheap. Given the frequency of slavery in science fiction I would be surprised if it wasn't a trope somewhere in Starfinder.

Also for people concerned about Lovecraft not fitting with a Starfinder-like setting, Elizabeth Bear actually has several good stories that take place in a space opera setting where H.P. Lovecraft elements are real, and are quite excellent.

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MannyGoblin wrote:

What I think of during Dany's flying scene

I have this big huge theory about the next episode! Since the creators like subverting things like Cleganebowl I have an idea how IllegitimateBowl will turn out.
** spoiler omitted **

Ugh..while the creators have messed up in the past, I don't think anything that stupid would happen.

Also as someone who never thought Cleganebowl was going to happen (at least with the trial), I was not really disappointed to see that outcome.

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Lemmy wrote:

That's exactly my problem with that scene... Dane wanted to take Drogon to safety after seeing him get hurt, but in the series, they made it look like she didn't give a damn about the people she left behind. That's not the case, just a filming mistake.

And like I said, I'm exaggerating for humor... I thought that would be clear, considering I used the sentence "LOL! NO! I'm outta here, b!!%$es!!!" when talking about Game of Thrones... -.-'

That scene played out just like the books...Drogon was getting spears chucked at him and being injured. Drogon wasn't so big that he could engage in melee without serious injury.

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Comments about Strange Aeons keeping reminding me I should renew my AP subscription soon...

Anyway random questions:

1) I think I heard mention that you are statting up Great Old Ones for Strange Aeons bestiary? Is that correct? And are you doing any other monsters for the AP, or just this one?

2) Can we expect to get some Clark Ashton Smith monsters for the AP? (beyond any demigods/outer gods)

3) A more random note: I think in the past you have mentioned not liking musicals. What about Horror Musicals? I stumbled upon Stage Fright last night on Netflix and was pleasantly surprised that what I expected was a straight slasher remake was in fact a slasher musical with some comedic elements.

4) How do you feel about comedy in horror anyways? I am referring to movies like Tucker and Dale versus Evil, Army of Darkness, etc, not so much things like the Scary movie franchise/abomination.

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I think 5E and Pathfinder separately cater to groups with different playstyles and game preferences. It's probably good for both games that they exist, rather than one group trying to adapt a game to a different approach or championing for corrections in the game to lend it to their GM style.

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UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Unfortunately for that, copyright lasts a LONG time.

Perhaps a few intellectual property holders might see inclusion in Pathfinder/Starfinder as promoting their works, and might be willing to make a deal that isn't too onerous (like Larry Niven making a deal to get their Kzinti onto the Star Trek Animated Series).

I assume people realize that but rather want aliens INSPIRED by these creatures, rather than the straight up 1:1 version.

I'll add in:

Martians ala War of the Worlds

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Anguish wrote:

I think the only way I'll really get disappointed with Starfinder is if they kind of don't repeat the mistakes from 3.5/Pathfinder.

I've said it elsewhere; if I wanted to play not-Pathfinder, there are a LOT of systems I could choose from. I don't play Pathfinder because of the setting. I play it because of the rules.

The more "cleaning up" that is done, the less compatible with the 3.x family of rules the system will be, and the less utility it will have to me.

Frankly, if Starfinder doesn't end up a reskinned Pathfinder (and I expect it absolutely will won't), it will not be a game for me. I'm okay with equivalencies, such as how Dreamscarred's psionics is completely equivalent magic but using a different mechanical system. But if say... a bunch of things are done to change how attacks of opportunity, or combat maneuvers, or the action economy works, well, pass.

Numenara is already on my shelf if I wanted to play a modern setting that isn't Pathfinder.

Oh, and yes, I get it that different people want different things. That's why I'm posting this.

I wouldn't phrase it the same way as anguish (and I don't care about 3.5 compatability), but I also want a game that isn't varying all that far from baseline Pathfinder. I think a science fiction space fantasy type setting just has rule elements that are either absent or severely modified from the default state of expectations for a fantasy game. Skills are different, vehicle type rules are much more important as is movement in 3D, powerful tech is present and available, people are most shooting at one another with guns versus getting into close combat, etc.

So I want only enough modification of the rules for this stuff to make sense.

As for caster-martial disparity, to me at least it's not really a feature of the types of setting I am hoping to pull off, if only because magic tends to be less prevalent than in fantasy (Jedi Knights, Telepaths and Technomages from Babylon 5, etc.) I am hoping it will correct this issue, but mostly just by having completely new classes and avoiding any sort of 9th level caster shenanigans. Given that they are starting from scratch on the classes I don't see this as being too big a pitfall.

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Starfinder I figure kind of is the themed book. since I think it would be difficult to just adapt science fiction elements straight onto the existing Pathfinder chassis, without modifying character building, skills, etc.

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I don't agree necessarily with the strict definition of the thread title, although I think many issues with the game do tend to be most apparent in the fighter or tend to be a bigger hassle.

In theory a class built around feats is a great idea. However since fighters lack much in the way of other class features, they need a lot of feats just to bring them up to par. And as a martial class the feats they need tend be locked behind feat chains. So in practice the fighter probably ends up more feat starved than practically every class which gets less feats.

I think a lot of unchained and recent player focused books have tried to get around this by building off of existing fighter features, or trying to make feats better for fighters via stamina, etc. The fighter is I would say in a much better place in two years ago, but the core class, probably more so than any other class with maybe the exception of monk has all these weird systems stacked on other class aspects. It's like someone trying to add a new floor to their house by just climbing atop the roof and just hammering in supports into the existing roof without any further modification. Any true improvement of the fighter is probably going to rely on changes to the class in a new edition (or maybe future unchained if that is likely).

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Investigator and Warpriest seem to definitely be the most popular/discussed ACG classes. To a lesser degree the Swashbuckler and Slayer. I feel like the others don't really come up to much in conversations

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I think it has been stated that the Tian Xia campaign setting gazetteer was indeed one of the toughest CS books to write. It was basically creating an entirely new setting focused on capturing E and S Asian tropes, and they basically had to start from scratch but still had to work within the timeline for a normal CS book

So I think we will eventually get Arcadia (And Casmaron...and Southern Garund), but I think there will be a lot of advanced development first, releasing dribs and drabs of material until enough is out there that they can pull together a book without ridiculous amounts of effort.

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Steve Geddes wrote:

There's clearly a group of people who are not buying books who otherwise would. However, I personally don't think it's any more now than it used to be a couple of years after PF's release. There were people predicting the end of Pathfinder for this and similar reasons back then and I think we as individuals run the risk of over-valuing our own experiences as "typical" when, in fact, we're all pretty idiosyncratic.

I certainly agree that if there are enough who respond in this way then Paizo will notice it commercially. My thesis is that they would then adapt their processes - and consequently that the fact they haven't is evidence that the "I'm not buying any more Paizo books" people are actually quite a small section of the market.

Even on the messageboards, I tend to see the same people criticising the errata process and favoriting one another's posts each time it comes up. It seems to me to be about a dozen really prolific posters who feel strongly about it and probably fifty or so who share the view but who don't post much.

Obviously, I don't have any insight into what proportion of the fanbase are upset, what proportion are well served by the...

This sort of lines up with my own experiences. My circle of RPG friends is very very tiny compared to many, but most don't pay attention to this site or even realize errata exists.

I generally speaking notice that certain threads, including errata, caster-martial related issues, playtest critiques, etc tend to be dominated by the same core group of posters who all seem to share very similar interests and playstyles. So certain established viewpoints on the forum come across as being established viewpoints of the player base in general, which I don't think is true. And of course those people will probably in real life be playing with people whose playstyle gells with their own, so problems they see will be problems that others they play with will have.

I suspect most of people who are most vocal about errata and practically everything else people take issue with is less about Paizo production of books and business practices than it is simply a difference of playstyle, between the style and philosophy of games the devs and crew want and the style of game and game design those folks want. Even a drastic alteration in how errata was carried out would not at all make some (most?) of those people more happy. If you think a hardcover seriously only has 4 or 5 things worthwhile in it, why would a change in errata production suddenly make you purchase books if the underlying game philosophy stayed the same.

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GeraintElberion wrote:
My guess is that Concordance is the Neutral book.

My thoughts exactly. The First World isn't really one of the planes specifically tied to any one alignment, nor are its inhabitants.

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huh...In the bestiary wishlist thread at some point I requested a "slasher" template like that described here. Awesome we are finally getting it.

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Eric Hinkle wrote:
Another awful, awful movie -- The Conjuring. I do not get the people who call this dreck frightening. It may help in my case that I read the book covering this case years ago when I was reading every crappy "true haunting" the Warrens "researched", and learned long ago how utterly shameless they were. At least no one got murdered for them to exploit this time around.

Wow...I liked the Conjuring. Even though that particular genre of horror is usually the one I find least interesting. Knowing the details behind the events would probably make the movie seem worse than it was.

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This is for two episodes. I think it's safe to assume an actor isn't (and isn't expected to) bulk up for a year for two episodes. This isn't a movie with several years of preproduction.

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Generic Villain wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:


I meant that even as a low level loser, he's always messing with stuff beyond his understanding. So to see him involved in this, not that surprising.

On that I agree entirely. He's custom-made for, as Adam Daigle said, doing something just incredibly stupid on a Lovecraftian scale. I'm just surprised he'd be a villain this late in the AP. I figured he'd have met a gruesome end much sooner. Guess he's "lucky."

Regardless, very much looking forward to this AP.

I would guess some sort of possession/mind swap, and whatever is running around in his body IS high level.

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Probably off base but I always like to consider him an ascended Dorvae, which he kind of resembles.

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I could see scenario 1 happening. IN fact I would be surprised if that isn't where they go with that character.

Do not see scenario 2 happening: The Faith would have nothing to gain from Gregorstein killing him (which even the High Sparrow would have to believe is a near certainty), and would suddenly lose their main toehold on power.

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Kara appeared on several smallville episodes, so I don't think those shows can exist in the same universe (and honestly I was never a huge fan of that actor's version of superman, so would prefer someone else).

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Yeah...I think this is some part of trick on Arya's part.

Also the waif enjoyed that far far too much. Which is also a big no no. I wouldn't be surprised if Jaquen knew the entire time that Arya was going to eventually leave, and all of this wasn't just a set up to test the Waif.

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Mavrickindigo wrote:

Let's not forget that HP Lovecraft stuff happened. According to "At the Mountains of Madness," humans evolved on Earth from the Great Old Ones' (Elder Things) leftover life-creation experiments, which would put the origin of human life on Earth, which means they would have had to migrate to Golarion at some point.

The leftover life creations didn't create man directly, but rather seeded the planet with life. So think less cave men and more Cambrian explosion.

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So how similar will this book be to the Books of the Damned series? Are the Eldest going to get a similar treatment to the demigods of those other books? Any new Eldest?

Been waiting for this book a long long long time :)

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Richard Redmane wrote:
With regards to the original topic, a big thing I hope is absent are star systems/regions devoted to particular subgenres of sci-fi or are full of nods to famous properties, especially next to one another as we have seen in the Inner Sea kingdoms of Pathfinder. Putting a Star Trek region next to a Warhammer 40k region next to something inspired by Battlelords of the 23rd Century and people should reasonably wonder why the three regions haven't killed each other.

I actually hope that it is kind of kitchen sink like. The galaxy is a big place; there is plenty of room for different regions to have different feels or provide homages to different aspects of science fiction. Hell, to some extent large detailed settings like Star Trek and Star Wars already do this.

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Slithery D wrote:
Captain collateral damage wrote:

What I'm interested in is if/how the other planes have advanced.


They do really need a reason why outsiders don't use high tech.

While most of the energy weapons in the Tech Guide are useless in outsider battles (resistances, high cost, feat investment vs. teleport, better melee damage, and SLAs), the really big guns like Extinction Devices (kill everything in a vast area not immune to mind affecting that fails a DC 35 Will save) or garden variety nukes (less effective against devils, but the blast wave will hurt anything if it's close enough) means that they should be their arsenals, especially for organized planes like Heaven and Hell.

Do they lack the raw materials for some reason? Ancient concordances against using them? (And the chaotic planes inclined to ignore them can't get organized enough to run a sophisticated economy?) Deific fiat?

This issue really has nothing to do with Starfinder, though. Androffa had this technology many thousands of years ago, and presumably other species developed in long before that.

Demon's enjoy ripping apart opponents with their own claws/tentacles/whatever? Abyssal energies mess with tech, causing it to not work properly?

Devils don't trust using high tech against opponents for worries that it will fall into the hands of others? They have agreement with good outsiders and inevitables not to escalate technology use against those who don't have it, because it goes against some cosmic rules?

No clue what would motivate Daemons though, unless the other outsiders just try their best to keep them from ever getting much technology for worry it will be turned against them.

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If you want to get really close to wild Japanese Macaques, the Iwatayama Monkey Park in Kyoto is really good.

The Museum of Nature and Science in Tokyo is pretty awesome if you are into Natural History. Although I am biased working there for a summer.

Definitely try Teppanyaki. Single best thing food I tried. Also hot Udon is pretty awesome.

Akihabara is already on your agenda and pretty awesome (although also sometimes really disturbing). Be sure to grab lunch at one of the random themed cafes in there. The Gundam Cafe though had ridiculous lines every time I went by it, just as a word of warning.

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JoelF847 wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

I am hoping that they can skimp on certain things and just refer to regular Pathfinder books. There is no need for instance to reprint a ton of spells for instance, and maybe there are other elements that can also be kept out of the book. That would give more room for mechas and such.

They have to be really careful on what is and isn't covered, since it might be quite awhile until the we get another SF hardcover. If people buy this book and don't see some favorite element they really want, they might skip on it (not every group plays with 3pp material to fill those gaps).

I'm pretty sure they won't be making reference to the core book, since they've stated they want to...

See my concern here is...if this is a ~400 so book that has to have a complete section of the rules so that someone who has never played Pathfinder can play Starfinder...Where is the the space? Potentially than not only does it have to cover everything in the Pathfinder core book, but (as suggestd at Paizocon) it's also providing a rough outline of the campaign setting, new monsters, and how pathfinder races/classes fit in or can be converted, and presumably at the very least vehicle type rule systems for starships/starship combat. How is there going to be space for this if you need to include a thick spell section, or go into detail about actions, character building, etc? At some level, something has to give.

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Nutcase Entertainment wrote:

Hmm, maybe paizo doesn't know how to do it, or isn't sure how to do it, in this case I apologize.

And I apologize, but you should just say so if it is the case.

Uh I think they have explained well why they can't and won't do it. I generally trust that people in charge and wanting to make money off something have considered the angles with actual data moreso than random consumers.

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Malwing wrote:

With Hypercorp 2099 in mind as well as a few other third party things There's actually quite a bit I don't want to see in Starfinder because they are complicated things that would kill page count but won't fit into many games so would be better as 3pp design space. The VR and decking is one of them, that is already handled in Hypercorp 2099.

Vehicle and space battle rules are fine but I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.

Alternate rules for monetary transactions is probably best as some kind of third party subsystem than one for the core rulebook.

Plant, animal, wooden, and psionic ships are probably better for a third party ship customization book.

I don't want there to be too many aliens because I Star Wars amounts of different aliens to be an option not a rule so I'd rather have some kind of Race Compendium handle that. Even better if Starfinder's fluff sticks to it's own and nearby Solar System so 3pp can fill out the rest of the galaxy. By the Way I'd love a fat book of hat planets; a large book spending two pages per race to detail the race rules and home world. just so that I have a high density of aliens for a campaign.

I am hoping that they can skimp on certain things and just refer to regular Pathfinder books. There is no need for instance to reprint a ton of spells for instance, and maybe there are other elements that can also be kept out of the book. That would give more room for mechas and such.

They have to be really careful on what is and isn't covered, since it might be quite awhile until the we get another SF hardcover. If people buy this book and don't see some favorite element they really want, they might skip on it (not every group plays with 3pp material to fill those gaps).

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Odraude wrote:

Honestly, I feel it's a mistake to go into this expecting Pathfinder 1.5. Rather, this should really just be here to add options for a science fiction/fantasy game, with some changes made to emulate the genre. Expecting this to be a new edition that overwrites the previous stuff with errata is just asking for disappointment. Not to mention it would split the fanbase. I can actually understand why they don't want a public playtest now.

This isn't the product to be championing Pathfinder 2e.

Yeah I have stated the same thing about starfinder a couple of times now. But then again people do this with like every book, take vague descriptions and decide that means the book is going to fix whatever specific problems they have that week with the game, and judge it poorly if it doesn't.

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Theliah Strongarm wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
.... There doesn't need to be a leadership feat for you to be able to have underlings, just have underlings.
OK, but if you get underlings at 1st level, you could call on them to soften up tough opposition. I find that overpowered. That way, you continually are going in for the final punch and getting the credit for the kill. And all your crew are dead or unconscious. And they still follow you around. And you don't lose any. Even when they realize that they're going headfirst into the danger, they still follow you.

I don't think the game can or will emulate that sort of thing except at very high level. Your party is probably going to be a lot closer to the crew of the Serenity or Moya at level 1.

I mean you wouldn't start out a Pathfinder game at first level with everyone in charge of an entire kingdom, including its armies/spellcasters/nobles/etc. Why would it be different for a science fiction game.

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yep as far as I can tell Androids, Lashunta, Ratfolk, and Humans are the confirmed or at least mostly confirmed races, and they have confirmed that the other 6 Pathfinder core races are NOT core races in Starfinder.

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
thistledown wrote:

Seeing a lot of shades of the late Dragonlance books here, but from the other side of the glass.

And Dr Who, yes.

Only if prior to it's disappearance, Golarion was reviled as one of the great universe destroying forces locked in battle with another one. And given that the Creative Director is sick and tired of Dr. Who references, he'd probably stamp out any he'd find.

James Jacobs isn't a Dr. Who fan, but he has only minor involvement in this at best, from what he has stated in the last few days. James Sutter's like or dislike of Dr. Who is what is important.

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Jaçinto wrote:

Right but the wider the group, the more feedback you can get. More really is better in a playtest. You need those people that will break the game. You need the people that say that even with all the tech, the wizard exists and magic is just better so who would bother with tech. You need the jerks and everyone that will bash and complain because you need to hear all the complaints, see if they are valid, and compare them to what others are saying. When you keep our testing group small, you get very limited feedback. You say they may just pick the people that file the reports, but you need to look at what people say in the forums as well. You need to see the complaints and the praise and how players compare things with each other, especially since they said you can use all the pathfinder books with this game.

Doing that last bit, I find, is quite a risk as people may look at the new core book, compare it to previous books, and just say that the majority of the new stuff should not even be in there, since X thing in Y book is better. Yes, that is a valid thing to worry about because as it is the core book of the new game, they should put their best foot forward. The other problem of letting people use all the other books in this totally new setting is power creep. They have to go "bigger" so people don't just ignore the new stuff in favour of the old, and that is a serious problem.

If this is an entirely new system (even if 3.5 derived), I doubt you are going to get much in the way of usable feedback in a few months. That just isn't long for most folks to be comfortable in the new. This is something a bit more complicated than dropping in a couple of new classes into an existing familiar system or a new rules subsystem.

Besides, I get a feeling that the Pathfinder devs are increasingly finding playtests less and less useful, for all the reasons outlined above, as well as as the fact it's a lot of time to manage them and organize the data.

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