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Axebeak

MMCJawa's page

Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber. 4,662 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists.


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GM_Beernorg wrote:
True, else we would never have watched Mulder eat an entire sweet potato pie in the original seasons, point taken. Guess this last one was just a bit sillier than I expected.

Yeah Darrin Morgan did this ep, who did some of the more memorable comedic episodes: Clyde Bruckman's final repose, War of the Coprophages, etc.


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Milo v3 wrote:
hiiamtom wrote:
The problems with Pathfinder are not in the bestiary or class choices (trap options aside), they are in the combat rules and the magic rules and the spell lists and the feat taxes.

I seriously wonder how class choices isn't a problem when so many classes are trap options that don't allow them to make any actions beyond "I can stab things".

Combat and magic rules are fine in general IMO, feats should be stronger, spells... to be honest I don't see much issue with spells aside from versatility (which can actually be easily reduced when it comes to things like summoning and planar binding, not fixed but immensely reduced, by making you have to learn it once for each different outsider you want to bind or summon, so instead of Planar Binding you have Planar Binding [Erinyes], etc.) but I allow more stuff than most groups do and the spell rules are very good for making NPC's. I mean, I allow simulacrums and planar binding.

I honestly think that the biggest issue with the game as current is simply that there are too many classes that are far to limited in their avenues of agency.

I think a Pathfinder second edition could tweak or alter most feats, spells, and classes and still maintain compatibility with the the current system (as long as the overall range of power of PCs doesn't surpass the present range). Tweak the combat system, or leveling, or action management, and so forth and then compatibility goes out the window.


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Grond wrote:

I hope they never change the core rules enough to warrant a 2.0 version. The choice is up to the GM and groups to decide which Paizo or 3pp products to use for campaigns. If I want to play a different rule system there are other companies with excellent rules out there. The Star Wars RPG and the Warhammer 40k RPGS from Fantasy Flight comes immediately to mind.

After watching Forgotten Realms get constantly destroyed/remade and Games Workshop destroying Warhammer last year I do not ever want to see that happening to Golarion. The only change I wish they would reveal is either how Aroden was killed or actually bring him back into the books and lore.

Changing the game rules actually doesn't require any change in the setting though. Even if their was a radical change in editions you could pretty much keep the setting as is. I would assume any rule change would still attempt to capture the fantasy setting genre vibe.


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Milo v3 wrote:


Yes it will still exist... but lack of any content going forward from first party is generally a bad thing for a game. Also, there is an issue if they change too much they stop being compatible with their adventure paths, so I seriously doubt they would change much to begin with.

Exactly. Pathfinder will still be around, but without active support it will be increasingly difficult to find people to play with, and it becomes a hassle to back convert things (which can be difficult with a radical revision)

This is primarily why people argue over the whole new edition idea or much revision is required.


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This would be a good product to drop some Xa Hoi stuff in...hint hint


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I'd love such a book. There is practically no lore at all for most of the true dragons that Paizo didn't inherit from the SRD. A hardcover would go a long way to sorting out that problem.


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
yes.... bigger budget this time around it seems... I can't believe they're just going for 6 shows... what the hell??

I assume its a limited season because Anderson and Duchovny are less interested in doing full seasons of TV than they were when they first started. Also it's fox testing the waters of nostalgia land to see whether the show still have enough legs to be brought back in future seasons or in any form of reboot/new cast

If it does well it wouldn't surprise me if it gets a 10 ep order or something next year. Honestly short seasons seem to mean better quantity nowadays anyway.


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Well Mulder brings his background as a profiler + encyclopediac knowledge of paranormal stuff. Granted the last episode didn't really get to use much of that.

So far I am continuing to watch it. I think the stand alones will turn out to be much stronger than these two conspiracy oriented episodes. I truly feels like Xfiles, and given what happened to Heroes things could have been far far worse...


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Lord Snow wrote:
Quote:
Given that the procedures in question actively violate the constitution and would get everyone involved in doing them arrested? And that cops and officers of the court know this and thus wouldn't do them? No, this isn't a viable plan.

Thing is, the constitution was written assuming certain things about humans. The rise of superpowers shakes those ground rules - might even nullify many of them completely. It's simply not very relevant to the question of, "How should the court handle a person suspect of using mind control powers for evil", because that question is out of the scope of what the legal system in the U.S is meant to handle.

Faced with these circumstances, competent judges would adapt as needed.

I think maybe you underestimate the inertia that the constitution has behind it. As far as criminal law goes, it would probably take years to accomodate things like mind control by super-powered individuals. If Kilgrave was operating more openly and leaving a visible trail of devastation in his wake than maybe some sort of executive order or something could get around it, but he has been specifically laying low and it would be very difficult to prosecute him without some existing body of regulation.

You would really need someone like Shield to intervene, or pretty much what Jessica ends up doing, if you wanted to stop Kilgrave.


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Kalindlara wrote:
p-sto wrote:
Thanks for the insight, Kalindlara. Going back to your previous point I have to admit I'm not fond of Paizo's habitual errata by omission. It makes it somewhat difficult to discern when something has been excluded for brevity and when Paizo is trying to bury an idea that devs felt didn't work.

It bears mentioning that the policy isn't universal. For example, the rewrite of Asmodeus's article in Inner Sea Gods specifically calls out so-called paladins of Asmodeus as being fakes, liars, and charlatans. I'm surprised Erastil's section didn't do something similar, gender equality-wise.

I'd definitely keep an eye on Inner Sea Faiths. ^_^

Also Paths of Prestige specifically calls out common folk frequently mistaking Hellknight armigers as Asmodean paladins, and the armigers themselves tend more toward evil than normal hellknights due to all the devil summoning and such.

So they kind of have provided multiple ways around the whole Asmodeus Paladin thing


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BobTheCoward wrote:

I have only read a portion of the small amount of Vudra and Kelesh content out there. The content seems to make them out to be the two greatest nations on the continent and comparable to the Old Taldor and Cheliax empires that dominated the inner sea region. I have a few random questions...

1) Are they that impressive or is it a lack of material on the region hides their divisions (when a resident of Almas says Vudra is an impressive nation does a native Vudran say the Inner sea is an impressive nation)?

2) Why don't they just run over the nations of the Inner Sea?

3) Often in fantasy RPGs, the setting would has stronger ties to "the greatest nation on the planet". Do you like that it may be set in one of the "weaker" areas?

1)Kelesh certainly is...Vudra is powerful but we don't really know much about it and so it's possibly more decentralized than Kelesh (at least that is the feeling I get).

2)Kelesh has in the past, taking over parts of Northern Garund and warring with Taldor. They don't appear to be in an expansionist phase right now but that could just be a temporary state. Vudra is way more distant from the inner sea and I would think it would be hard for them to maintain mainland holdings, especially with Kelesh to the the north.

3) Is it? seems in many fantasy setting/rpgs a big empire is present somewhere, but is often portrayed as antagonistic and/or exotic, and so isn't the focal point and origin for characters.


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John Kretzer wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
I may be a bit insensitive here, but I'm seriously jealous at the snowed-in people. I'm the kind of guy who'll take a flight abroad just to get some actual winter experience, and while I know living your daily life in a snowstorm has a whole slew of annoying and potentially dangerous repercussions, I would give a lot to experience it.

....considering I just spent all morning shoveling snow ( snow blower is broken) and still have the hardest stretch in front of me...my first instinct is to slap you....as you have obviously lost all sense.

You know I guess it would be nice to get snowed in...unfortunately legally you have to clear your sidewalks...be able to get the cars so you can got to work ( thankfully it did this on a sat so you have we have a whole day to dig out and not just a morning.)

I know you probably have a romantic view...and after the work is done...it is nice and different and can be beautiful...but it also for me means back breaking work. Reality sucks.

yeah...I am currently on break two of snow-shoveling today. My car is still mostly covered with snow but at least I have the immediate area front and behind the car shoveled, although perhaps not enough to actually get out...

It doesn't help when your landlord who you share a drive way with had her side snowblowed, but said folks simply blew it onto your half.

I grew up in Northern Michigan and did my Phd in Wyoming and this is the first time I have dealt with my car being snowed in THIS BAD before.


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Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

First episode felt a bit rushed and somewhat rough, but it's a better pilot than Supergirl's and that show has turned out quite well. If it doesn't get any better I'll still watch it. Hopefully, like Flash and SG, it will improve as it gets settled into a comfortable pace.

Yeah I kind of agree. Could have really used a two hour pilot, because it strained credibility a bit that some random guy could contact a bunch of folks and tell them he was a time traveler who needed their help...without a little bit more disbelief. The Hawkfolks are pretty much the only folks who should have signed on with little hesitation, because of their connection to Vandal Savage.


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Why is everyone so convinced the relationship is over for good? I'll believe it when she leaves town and/or dies.

And yeah, Patty and Barry have great chemistry, so I hope the relationship isn't over.


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They announced this week we will be getting a second season of Jessica Jones, although they didn't drop any clues to what it would be about, other than maybe exploring the origin of her powers more.


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Aberzombie wrote:

Evil genius scientist and ruthless/wealthy businessman?

Lex – check
Max – check

Obsessed with a Kryptonian?
Lex – check
Max – check

Creates a Bizzarro?
Lex – check
Max – Looks like they’re going in that direction

All he needs now is a bald head, some Kryptonite, green & purple power armor, and his journey to the Luthor Side will be complete.

Yes, they kept his distrust of authority, which he had until he became an authority, at which point they began to evolve it. First he became another manipulative figure of power, using superheroes for his own purposes (both under control of an alien computer and free of that control). Later he even became friendly with them, and sort of a genuine good guy in his own way, although still manipulating events with his mental powers. Much later, they evolved him into the full-blown, hates superheroes/metahumans and fights to protect normal humans even though he is a metahuman, villainous leader of Checkmate.

And that’s my problem. The character has a lot of stuff they could be doing with him. A history going back nearly 30 years. Controlled by an alien computer. Host to an other-dimensional magic-using villain. Cyborg. Psycho leader of checkmate. So far, he’s Lex with a bit of misogyny thrown in for good measure. An obvious antagonist with a genius-level intellect, vast scientific knowledge, and a mad-on for anyone with a red-cape and an “S” their chest, coupled with determination to win against that person. From the beginning, they should have made him more of a schmoozer: greasing palms, manipulating events, and using his charisma to get Supergirl on his side, under his control. We should have been left wondering – is he really a bad guy, or is he just drawn that way?

It's pretty par for the course with the CWverse shows, which are run by the same folks as Supergirl. Take a good plotline or iconic element from one character/series, and adapt it over to the one they can actually use. Arrow frequently borrows batman stuff, and rumors suggest that Felicity may become Oracle.

Flash is about the only one that avoids this for the most part, and that is because Flash is an A-list character with a lot of material to mine.


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I really liked season 1 but gave up on season 2 a few episodes in. Two many cliff hangers from the first season were abandoned or had a bridge drop on them, and the show seemed to be setting up the same plot and character interplay from the first season, without much reason.


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Michael Monn wrote:
A whore queen antipaladin would be neat.

Is that possible? I think they are all LE and so too many steps away?


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Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Moonknight will be way better. In every way.

Yeah I would much rather see MoonKnight than Punisher. Although I am perfectly cool with Punisher popping up in future netflix shows or other TV properties.


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huh....I feel like I am the only one who didn't enjoy Man in the High Castle. The premise and setting were great, but the so-called protagonists were bleh. Somehow I feel me rooting for the Japanese wasn't the intended point of the show.

Just caught up on The Expanse. Absolutely love the show, and impressed on the effort made on the world building and set design of the show (although the belter accents sometimes confuse the crap out of me). As someone who HASN'T read the books I enjoy it so far. Also so far its almost entirely a hard science fiction show...how often do you see that in space opera?

Tried watching Fringe back when it was on...couldn't make it through a couple of episodes since it felt like a glossy and superficial X-files rip off

Breaking Bad is amazing and really worth watching the later seasons. Its one of the few shows I can honestly say got a full run of seasons and was consistently good throughout

Been watching Longmire lately and mostly enjoy it. It's not genre but as someone who lived 7 years in Wyoming it can be fun to see a police procedural handle issues and topics that were a concern of locals there.

Anyone mentioned Penny Dreadful yet? The plots...sometimes don't make a whole lot of sense, but it's totally worth watching just to see Timothy Dalton and Eva Green chew the scenery, and it really nails the gothic atmosphere.


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137ben wrote:
The Sword wrote:


D&D and by extension Pathdinder draws its inspiration from real world tropes and legends which consistently portray undead as evil. The exceptions being recent vampire stories and older ghost stories.

Wow, this is just...I don't even know where to start. Neutral and Good undead are a standard in Egyptian, Roman, Chinese, Celtic, Irish, Tibeten, and Vietnames mythologies, and even early Christianity, so it's not like there isn't overwhelmingly abundent precedent for neutral and good undead. If anything, it's the all-undead-are-evil stories that are the odd ones out.

As someone who has read up a fair bit on folklore pertaining to undead around the world, I don't really agree with this. Yes there are exceptions in various cultures, but for the most part undead are bad news, and usually arise from horrible or tragic deaths or breaking traditional taboos. A lot of the "neutral or good" spirits in these cultures are less undead in the sense of pathfinder, but more spirits that have moved onto the afterlife, but in cultures that generally lack discrete Christian-style heaven. So in Pathfinder terms, they would be outsiders, not undead.

How you treat undead, there creation, and their role in the world is down to how you want to set up the setting your run and its cosmology.


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Ah Harry Potter: I read the first book because it was practically shoved down my throat in college by a friend. I don't think the first book is bad, but based on it and the movies, I don't know why anyone past Middle School would read them. It's not remotely written for adults, and it boggles my mind how many people I know obsessed over the books who were around my age.

Also...no one brought up Dean Koontz yet. I read a few books of his in high school, and he manages to be the most unsubtle horror author I have ever read, with very little originality at every level of writing that is important.


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the postapocalypse angle is really one of the major unique things that separates out Shannara from the other Tolkien clones. I am glad they are emphasizing that aspect.


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The single thing I find creepiest in horror fiction is the sense of someone puppeteering your body to do horrible thing and having no control over it, and being fully aware it was happening (Carrion Comfort and Neuropath still rank as the scariest books I have ever read for that reason)

Given the number of monsters and spellcasters who pretty much can do that at a drop of the dime, I am pretty happy I don't live in Golarion

Setting specific, if played straight Golarion is an existential nightmare. The afterlife exists, but you become lose all your knowledge upon becoming a petitioner. If you are evil, you get to be tortured/hunted/made to wallow in filth for eternity without really being aware of why. if good or neutral...well I suppose your fate is more kind but still losing your memories and what make you...well you...doesn't sound appealing. And lets not forget that even if you are a good person, there are creatures and spells which can damn you to hell or the abyss, and your afterlife can end at any time if some other outsider or even jerkass mortal kills you again.

Creature wise, Kytons: Most fiends do horrible things to you for there own self-interest or the lolz. Kytons do horrible things to you because they are trying to "help" you realize new sensations and mold you to there own twisted and horrible aesthetic idea of perfection

Dominion of the black is also pretty horrible...you are just spare parts to them...


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Huh...so Dragonborn are now OGL under 5E? That's different than the earlier SRD which did not include them. I wonder now if someone could legally do a straight up adaptation of them for Pathfinder and use the same name?

Same goes with Warlock as a class.


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Milo v3 wrote:


Quote:
The bigger issue is when you fit it in the schedule, and if the CS book was successful enough to warrant a hardcover on the book.
You'd fit it in the schedule in the next available Adventure RPG-line slot after Horror Adventures.

My guess would be that the best time for them to release that sort of book would be sometime before a futuristic AP (which with Iron Gods done, would probably have to be focused on the other planets in the system). I don't know if they are willing to head back to that well so soon, Since Iron Gods was last year and Strange Aeons is going to go to other worlds in the fall.


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not been released to subscribers yet AFAIK


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Milo v3 wrote:

Ultimate Mundane with simply things like skill DC's for more stuff, more items that lack a combat use but are good in castles and mage homes, enhanced versions NPC classes that are stronger but the only abilities they have are geared towards downtime rather than adventuring, spells that are for non-adventurer use, etc.

Part of me wants a Futuristic Adventures book that has rules like the technology guide but more expansive and having things other than adventuring stuff and more archetypes and rules for extraterrestrial adventures like adventures on Suns and in the void of space. This would not only allow for more adventures off-world and let people do things like play modern and Sci-Fi games more easily than they can with just the Technology Guide, but it also means that the technology guide could be removed from the PRD as it would be redundant, meaning that it can return to being RPG-Line material only. But.... It's unlikely anytime soon since it would render a product redundant and that's not Paizo's style.

Well...there is some precedent...Inner Sea Gods pretty replaces the old 3.5 diety softcover, and books like the bestiaries, Monster Codex, and Inner Sea races compile and update quite from other campaign settings book. A hardcover focused on tech would probably reprint a lot of items in that book but perhaps not all, and I think there is some campaign specific archtypes, etc that probably wouldn't be printed.

The bigger issue is when you fit it in the schedule, and if the CS book was successful enough to warrant a hardcover on the book.

They probably still wouldn't remove that book from the PRD though...I would imagine that might cause some legal snaggles for 3pp that are currently using those rules.


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Liz Courts wrote:
Campaign Codex: Chapter by chapter breakdown on how to do genre adventures with the Pathfinder ruleset (steampunk, ancient age, post-apoc, urban fantasy, "Thundarr the Barbarian," etc.), and provide example plot hooks and setups for them.

hah...I wouldn't mind seeing some of those chapters become entire books.


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Gorbacz wrote:

Galt

Nex
Geb
Razmiran
Druma
Isger
Jalmeray
Realm of Mammooth Lords
Mana Wastes
Molthune
Nidal
Nirmathas
Rahadoum
Sodden Lands
Hermea
Thuvia

The Inner Sea region is far from "nicely covered".

not to mention various major cities or smaller regions that could all support a full book. I would love to see a book focused on Caliphas or Egorian for instance.


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Probably worth mentioning that one of the "unchained" rules for skills was just to increase everyone to a minimum of 4 skill points. So that fix for fighter is kind of in the book, just not in a class constrained way.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Quote:
As mentioned way above, I got tired of spending more time polishing my PC according to the rules than I did playing at the table top.
I am rather amazed at this. I sincerely do not know how one can do this.

DM's style exhibits strong OCD. The D in OCD stands for "disorder" in regards to things the subject is O/C about.

It was required of the players that they understand all permutations of all pertinent rules (and all the rules were pertinent). Failure to know stuff meant your character would suffer or die in ways you overlooked.

PC backstory was required yet also subject to similar scrutiny (though how to apply campaign lore to your PC was more than a little hinky).

Think of it like studying for a test where the max score allowed was 40% with no curve applied. Who wants to beat their head against a wall for an "F-" kudos?

5E makes it a little hard to play the system in that way.

That sounds like more of a DM issue than a system issue.

Yeah...this does not match my experiences as either a DM or as a player. I am pretty sure your problem isn't the system but the guy running the games.


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I just finished the first volume of a annotated collected series of the complete works of Clark Ashton Smith.

It's arranged in chronology of publishing. Since it's arranged in the order he wrote them, some of the writing is rather weak, but there are a few good ones in there. Also, given that it was pulp written in the twenties, there are some um unfortunate problematic elements that have not aged well, which seems pretty prevalent in writers of the period.

I am surprised to see he is a bit more diverse a writer than H.P. Lovecraft in regards genres and style. I think I also tend to prefer his characters over his contemporaries such as Lovecraft or Robert Howard...he avoids the erudite antiquarian scholar narrators as well as the MANLY MEN of both authors, and produces characters that are somewhat between in tone.

I will almost certainly read volume two, but only after I finish up "Under the wide carnivorous sky" from John Langan, my current favorite short-fiction horror author.


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Doomed Hero wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
, Arueshalae didn't just decide to switch sides. I recommend reading Demon's Heresy. Are there any other good demons or devils in Pathfinder canon?
Ragathiel?

Not good, but there is a LN Oni in the new NPC section for AP #100, who basically became "less evil" after absorbing the wandering spirit of a human father who lost his children. Although Oni are sort of weird in that they are not tied to a specific plane of alignment, and are basically fallen Kami. So I would imagine that becoming neutral or even good is a bit easier for them than say a daemon or demon.


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bugleyman wrote:
Medriev wrote:


Ultimately, I like what Paizo is doing and I very much hope they are making enough money out of it to keep doing it. Reinventing everything with a new system is something I've been burned by before and I have no desire to have the dozens and dozens of PF products I have on my shelves made obsolete by the launch of a new edition. Realistically, I have more material now than I can use in my lifetime but I (as many on these boards seem to be) am a collector and I will keep buying the latest PF products as long as they are useful. Once they become less than useful or incompatible with what I have then I will stop buying them.
Where do you store it all? :P

All I can say is thank the gods for pdfs and flashdrives...


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Milo v3 wrote:
KujakuDM wrote:
Considering many of them say, "Twists to evil, malice, anger, doom, and hatred of the living pretty many of your counterarguments don't hold up.

What, the counterargument that "Yes, your alignment is changed to evil. But note there is nothing that suggests that you cannot change your alignment back to good just like any other evil being. Also, side-fact you can hate the living and still be good." Anger isn't evil.

Quote:
Though my favorite is Attic Whisperer. Because according to you, neglecting a child to death isn't an evil act.

1. You can neglect a child through accident. You might try to run multiple jobs and end up basically seeing your child because you need the money so that the child can still eat and get clothes and pay rent and get medicine and go to school. They might end up neglected without any evil act.

2. Neglecting a child does not have to do with the death. It's a neglected child who has died, not a child that was neglected to death. Major difference in my mind.
3. The child specifically does not need to be neglected, just being lonely and dying is enough. If I died as a young child in the pathfinder universe, I would have had a chance to rise as an attic whisperer because I was lonely as hell, but I was not neglected or bullied (well, not at the stage I'm talking about). No evil is necessary.

Quote:
Also, are you insinuating that cannibalism is NOT an evil act?

Actually, I'm insinuating that cannibalism isn't an evil act in Pathfinder. I see no reason to discuss my personal views on morality as it is irrelevant to a pathfinder alignment discussion.

But the facts are that there are races in pathfinder who cannibalism enough as a thing that it is listed in their bestiary entry, and they are generally neutral. Also, there are things like Blood God Summoner that incorporate cannibalism into character abilities and do not have an evil alignment restrictions. There are even options like barbarians who eat humanoids to get their abilities...

IIRC, the specific examples of attic whisperers I have seen in Golarion setting materials all were examples of neglect to the point of abuse, not simply mom working two jobs or something. Eledia from undead unleashed died from being locked in a chest for 11 days by an evil caretaker for instance. IIRC, in another book there is a bugbear who specializes in tormenting children to death, who produces attic whispers that he talks to. Even if it's not spelled out in precise language, I think RAI attic whisperers are formed from some sort of abuse, and just being lonely and dying young is not sufficient to spawn one.


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thejeff wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
It's very easy to be taken in by "bad archaeology" and other misinformation on the web. You might have been. If not, I'd be very interested to discover these ancient mysteries if you wouldn't mind linking them.
If the source has "Van Daniken" in it's name, tell your Librarian to reclassify it in the Fiction setting. Most likely any hard evidence is in the "conveniently disappeared" category.

Lol.

von Daniken.

Lol.

Rofl.

Bull$h!t of the Gods...

Roflmao.

Snort.

(I wish I could C H O M P ! ! ! that Swiss dude...)

Secret Confession: I love the von Daniken stuff. And Velikovsky, the grandfather of that kind of crazy. And the various illuminati/templar/merovingian conspiracy theories.

It's all nonsense of course, but it's so intricately put together and they go to such effort to tie all the little clues into the big theory. I kind of wish the world did work like that.

Same here. I have always been into reading about the occult, ghosts, cryptids, etc, because I find it fascinating, even though I don't really believe any of it.


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bugleyman wrote:

I'm on record for saying long ago (2008ish?) that I thought Pathfinder was doomed. I believed this at the time because I thought Pathfinder would never grow, as it would appeal only to 3.5 fans upset by a new edition. My error was grossly underestimating the how badly WotC would bungle 4E. In fairness, their catastrophic failure was unprecedented, but even so, I was wrong. Pathfinder, in the absence of a viable, well-supported alternative, grew by leaps and bounds. And admittedly, Paizo makes some really, really good products.

But I think the landscape has fundamentally shifted. Pathfinder has grown to rival 3.5 in bloat. Meanwhile, D&D is back with a very well done 5E. And while I personally refuse to buy into a system (5E) produced by a corporation that appears to view PDFs as the blackest witchcraft, clearly many others do not share my hesitation. And so I do not think Pathfinder will continue to grow in the face of a superior alternative.

I could be wrong. I have been before. But I think something has to give, or Paizo will find itself on the trajectory I originally expected: Catering to an ever-shrinking fan base.

On the bright side, I think Paizo has established itself enough that it could continue to grow if it produced a greatly improved 2nd edition.

Odds are a new edition of Pathfinder would probably not be a more simplified system, simply BECAUSE that already exists in 5E. Fighting over the same contingent of gamers who have at this point switched over rulewise to 5E strikes me as an incredibly bad business plan. Any new edition is likely to have equivalent levels of complexity as the existing version, which means concerns over bloat will only be reset and be back as strong as ever a few years later after the release.


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Ashiel wrote:
KujakuDM wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:


"Arguments"

Considering many of them say, "Twists to evil, malice, anger, doom, and hatred of the living pretty many of your counterarguments don't hold up.

Though my favorite is Attic Whisperer. Because according to you, neglecting a child to death isn't an evil act.

No, loneliness is not an evil act and is one of the ways that a child can spring back to unlife, which you have conveniently ignored. Further, neglecting a child is certainly not an evil act on the part of the child, so suggesting that the child is somehow evil because of someone else's actions is just stupid.

I hate commenting in these threads, because fundamentally its a Setting decision on how you treat undeath, but...

The child being lonely isn't just what spurs the formation of an attic whisperer. Its evil of neglect and abuse APPLIED to them that does this. There are plenty of equivalent games rules out there, like rituals and spell that can damn a chaotic good person to hell. Undead wise its likely that many allips and ghosts, as well as other undead, are also the result of an outside action being performed on the victim, not something they themselves are responsible.


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thejeff wrote:
Krensky wrote:

We know the plans get to Leia.

We don't know how or if the people involved survive.

I mean it's Disney, so they're not going to kill everyone, but still.

I've never found the "but we know how it's going to end" complaint persuasive. Of course we know how it's going to end. In broad general terms, just like we know how every action movie is going to end. The hero beats the bad guy and gets the girl. Even in the cliffhanger action scenes, the question is how the hero escapes, not whether or not he escapes.

It's the journey and the details that can be surprising, not the final outcome.

Depends on the story you are trying to tell. In the case of Rogue one, it's a prequel with entirely new characters whose only prequel elements are "death star plans get stolen". So yeah it's about as novel as you can get, and shouldn't suffer prequelitis.

In a movie like say Pan, or the Star Wars Prequel trilogy, that heavily revolve the backstory of the main characters and settings, there is a lot less novel elements to include potentially, or you remove the mystery around characters that made them interesting.


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Malwing wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
While I won't disagree that Pathfinder is not equally suitable for all types of genres and games, any sort of view that such and such class/race/mechanic is unsuitable for the game or fantasy in general is going to be completely subjective. I love the occult book and thing waterbenders, people with ghost buddies, and ritual magicians are all perfectly serviceable concepts to have alongside wizards, bards, and barbarians.
Pathfinder can stretch pretty far though. I'm running a Sci-fi campaign, I plan to run steampunk later along with post apocalyptic deiselpunk and superheroes. I even have a campaign in mind where the players are from the 1940s and wind up on a Land of the Lost island full of dinosaurs, lizardmen and alien Nazis. Granted this takes a liberal use of third party material and/or Pathfinder Unchained/Ultimate Campaign but as long as exploring and killing increasingly bigger things is in the picture d20/Pathfinder can do it well enough.

It can stretch pretty far, although some things require extensive modifications to pull off. If you wanted to do Space Opera you would have to rely almost entirely on 3rd party resources and heavily modify the core rules, since so many of the tropes there don't work that well with default Pathfinder. If you wanted to do a Call of Cthulhu type story, where the PC's are expected to die and/or go insane, than you probably would find it easier with a game less focused on combat and leveling.

That said you could totally run a John Carter of Mars campaign with the rules as is, or run Lovecraftian horrors in the vein of Robert E. Howard rather than H.P. Lovecraft. Pathfinder rules are incredibly flexible and can accommodate quite a bit, and this improves with every release.


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It won't be out until the fall, but supposedly the Horror Adventures hardcover will have a rules system for gradually turning into a monster, that doesn't rely on just giving a PC a template.


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While I won't disagree that Pathfinder is not equally suitable for all types of genres and games, any sort of view that such and such class/race/mechanic is unsuitable for the game or fantasy in general is going to be completely subjective. I love the occult book and thing waterbenders, people with ghost buddies, and ritual magicians are all perfectly serviceable concepts to have alongside wizards, bards, and barbarians.


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Malwing wrote:

In that light I'd like to ask exactly what changes, no matter what the percentage is, would actually be neccesary without disrupting too much.

Classes are generally agnostic towards the rest of the game except for adventure NPCs so changing something about them through addition or alternate choices shouldn't hurt too much. For example if Fighters had some kind of tacked on ability or the replacements for weapon training options being hardwired in wouldn't hurt anything. A more clear example is the difference between chained and unchained Barbarian not being disruptive while Unchained Monk is very disruptive. In APs it would be easy to reinterpret what an ability does or tack on an ability but when everything is different then NPCs become very untrue while being hard to adjust and options from other books such as archetypes get disrupted.

Changing how skills work shouldn't be too disruptive. but adding or subtracting skills or anything that changes how skills get allocated is disruptive to Bestiary and NPC stat blocks.

Changing spells or feats shouldn't be too disruptive unless the spell changes level or the feat changes prerequisites.

If there was a Pathfinder 0.5 what would that look like?

I suspect a second edition would probably pretty much focus on the easily changeable aspects that you outline: feats, classes, and spells. Maybe tweak a few things like how skills are calculated, stealth, and a couple of other minor points.

I think those sort of changes would pretty much leave existing rule books viable and adventures playable, while addressing frequently cited issues.


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Hi James...not really a question but just a comment.

I finished up reading the adventure portion of Song of Silver just last night. I actually really enjoyed the adventure and found it well written, although I seldom get to play so I probably won't get a chance to run it.

Just throwing that in since you mentioned you hadn't heard much about what people thought. With Christmas chaos and everything it was several weeks between it arriving and actually getting a chance to read it


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Bluenose wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Pure speculation, but a combination of Classical and Christian traditions? Classical myth is full of heroes who are children of or otherwise touched by the gods. Christianity is pretty strict about anything special being either from God or from the Devil.

At least some other Western traditions don't follow that logic: Beowulf, for example, is just extraordinary on his own IIRC. It would be interesting to look at some of the other pre-Christian myths/legends and see if the pattern holds.
In the east, the tradition of training developing inner powers probably goes back to Indian Yoga, which goes back some 2500 years and spread from there along with the more obvious martial arts.

I don't think there's any particularly observable difference between 'eastern' and 'western' tradition, to be honest. You point out Beowulf yourself, Odysseus is probably an equally viable (and much older) example of a hero whose divine ancestry is some way back (great-grandson of Hermes, he was). Hrolf Kraki's saga has a mix of heroes with immediately 'special' ancestry and ones who are entirely human. Indian mythology includes heroes directly descended from gods and others who aren't. Fionn mac Cumhaill gets his specialness from a mix of training, practice and questing to find a special location; Cuchulainn from ancestry, practice and special training. Perceval, Sigurd, Liongo, Guan Yu, Ilya Muromets, Bahram, they're all epic warriors of various sorts without special ancestry.

And on a related note I question how much a dominant thing this is in modern anime as well. I can't say that I have seen nearly as much as probably some posters, but I feel like most of what I have seen involves characters who get their special abilities from outside sources (ancestry, race, magic, tech, etc), or plain don't have abilities much beyond the heightened reality of western action flicks. This seems to fit Highschool of the Dead, Cowboy Bebop, Attack on Titan, Most of Trigun, Hellsing, etc. Anime is a HUGE medium that covers a lot of genres and different ages of viewership.

My gut tells me that construed differences in media are less about any sort of deep philosophical differences in Western vs Eastern culture, but is rather that people are highlighting certain anime which uses different story-telling structures than what we see in a lot of Western fiction aimed at adults.


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uh I am okay with Lex Lord existing, since I have a sinking feeling he will be a more credible "Lex" than the one we are actually going to get in B vs S.


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cablop wrote:
With more than a thousand posts in this very very young thread i can do nothing but ask... could it mean Pathfinder system is dying?

how many different people account for those 1000 of posts. We don't get exact sales numbers, but comments by the developers indicate that Core Rulebook sales are not only strong but increasing, which would suggest the system is far from dying.


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Threeshades wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
are you asking for RPG monsters or real-life folklore/literature/movie critters?

Any folklore or classic storytelling monster is good.

Cole Deschain wrote:

Yeah, the pathfinder Wendigo takes some stylistic visual liberties...

Swanmays?
Various takes on Selkies?

It is remarkably similar to a lot of wendigo related art i can find online though. But granting that wendigos don't fall under this category, I just need even more others then.

Selkies and Swanmaidens as far as i know about them are not human, but are shapeshifting creatures that can take on a human form.

Orthos wrote:
Sometimes Japanese Yokai are said to have once been human before either dying or doing some immoral/dishonorable action to become a monstrous/animalistic spirit creature. Can't name any off the top of my head at the moment though.
I will look into those, thanks.

Yeah I think a lot of wendigo art takes its inspiration from relatively recent movies like The Last Winter and such.

Their is the Win from Mexico. Basically, an evil sorceror who beats the devil in wrestling gets unlimited abilities to shapeshift into any animal, although the animal can always be identified based on it being unusually ugly, performing odd behaviors, or luminous eyes.

There are probably others, but I would need to consult my big list after work.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
I think that the only golems that go berserk are the flesh golems - and that could (arguably - since there is nothing I know of that says otherwise) due to the faulty meshing of the flesh with the elemental spirit, or perhaps the souls of the departed making the elemental go temporarily mad etc.

There's at least one other - the clay golem.

This is probably a trope thing as well. The inspirations for these two, Frankenstein's monster (primarily the film version) and Rabbi Loew's Golem, both broke from their creators' control and had to be put down.

In the classic novel, it was the Monster that put Frankenstein down and then exiled itself to the Frozen North.

I assume many of you folks remember Terminator? The story was drawn from a Harlan Ellison story "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream". Where the machine seeks revenge on Humankind for the horror of it's existence.

Actually "Demon with a glass hand" was a possible inspiration of Terminator". That story actually involves a robot sent back in time on a mission.

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