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Axebeak

MMCJawa's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 5,210 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:
Lots of stuff on political leanings of posters

I don't normally agree with GreyWolfLord on a lot of things, but I think he is exactly correct here. Paizo is a pretty progressive company, and I think their support LGBTQ and moderation policies have gradually turned off Alt-right and more conservative leaning posters either completely away from the site, or at least from sections of the site dealing even tangentially with those topics. I've been posting long enough to see some pretty disgusting stuff be posted by folks no longer around, which quickly got deleted and in some cases led to bans. And just being the sort of person who spends a lot of time on a forum is going to automatically skew where you fall on the political spectrum.

I also think there is just a natural human tendency to assume whatever special interest you have, whether it's science, gaming, birding, or any other hobby, is full of like-minded "enlightened" folks of your political persuasion. And a lot of that is more down to hanging out in areas where those contrary folks don't show up, or conversations just not steering in those directions and thus a certain amount of ignorance of what other people really feel.


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It's been mentioned that demigod outsiders beyond those listed will be statted. I know Aeons, Asuras, Kytons, and Pyschopomps have been ruled out, but Qlippoth have been...maybe implied. What about Protean and Primal Inevitables?


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Yeah, this is very much going to be the "high level" Bestiary, versus the Occult and Horror, which were the themes of the last two.


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Hitdice wrote:
The thing is (I haven't read more than the Cox News abbreviated version, forgive me any errors) Trump gave a minority outreach speech today in New Hampshire. I was all, "Well, that's the state you want to give it in, not, y'know, Arizona or any other state even slightly south of New-Frakkin-Hampshire."

Giving any campaign speeches in New Hampshire AT ALL makes no sense. It's almost certainly going to go democrat and is only worth 4 electoral college votes. There are far more swing vote states or states only weakly leaning Republican that he should be focusing in on.


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My issue with the fiction was...each chapter of the multi-volume stories was so short that I seldom could ever remember and keep track of the characters in the wait for the next volume (especially if volumes were delayed as sometimes happened.

So I am actually kind of glad that we are losing the fiction for more backmatter, since it's more material I am likely to read. As long as designing those extra pages are not too much extra work for the folks developing stuff!


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huh...pleasantly surprised, although I would guess this might be because the late fall release that the bestiary normally slots into is going to the Starfinder monster book (although if it is I hope they go with field guide or some other name)

It's pushed early, but if bestiaries are every other year, than 2017 was kind of the "scheduled" year for the next hardcover book.

An Villain Codex, NPC Codex, and Bestiary 6 all in a row is a bit unusual, but I guess this is to free up rules design for Starfinder?

Also please...MORE SAKHILS. Definitely one of my new favorite outsider groups, and would love to see more.


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Umbral Reaver wrote:
Are we sure it's going to be backwards compatible? I had the impression it would not be directly compatible, but would take a reasonably small amount of conversion one way or the other. That conversion may also include combat maths changing.

I think the interpretation is "small amount of conversion = backward compatible"

Pathfinder is considered backward compatible with 3.5, but they do have distinctive rule differences.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Everybody's been talking about hobgoblins, but what about goblins?

Canon-wise, they're the bullied foot-stools of the Hobgoblins, so would they be appropriate -- perhaps one grew a spine or had greatness thrust upon them?

Does the equation change for goblins depending on whether they're hobby or not?

Depends on if goblins are also a major antagonist in the first AP volume. If they are not I wouldn't have an issue. In fact an escaped slave goblin sounds like an awesome potential character.

Again pretty much all of this thread is super speculative as far as what is or isn't appropriate. Until we have the first few volumes we can only guess on what sort of character concepts would be awesome and what ones either would be distracting or ineffective.


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based on two separate recommendations in a couple of days, last week I FINALLY watched the horror film Pontypool

Spoilerific Monster Idea:

for those who haven't seen the movie, Pontypool is sort of a zombie movie, but one in which the vector of infection isn't a disease, but rather the English language. Symptons include steady loss of language skills, madness, and eventual resulting in a mindless being driven to attack and kill.

It's a really cool concept that I don't think any existing monster (especially the zombie templates) really model.

I would probably do it either as something that converts a person into an outsider or undead. Give it a sonic attack; anyone that takes damage is inflicted with the disease, and take wisdom damage anytime a player communicates with certain words. Take enough wisdom damage and you die and become a new infected.

Obviously it would need other tweaks, including some sort of blindsense, maybe an ability to mimic spells and throw them back at random individuals, etc.


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I feel like this is something we probably won't see for awhile, as like Hermea I think Sutter and Jacobs have somewhat different interpretations of Rahadoum.


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Melkiador wrote:
If Starfinder is just Pathfinder in Space, why isn't it just another Pathfinder RPG book? Ultimate Space. Ultimate Worlds. Ultimate Planes.

Because the existing system is rather clunky in emulating Space Fantasy tropes. Even if you keep the basic game, you need to significantly modify skills, combat, equipment, and magic to get something that feels like a better fit than Pathfinder. Plus provide robust systems for game elements like space ship combat. At that point it's a new system really.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:

I think WotC will likely leverage the upcoming movie (2017? 2018?) to increase their sales. Deciding to do this looks to me like a no-brainer effort and should raise the tide for other RPGs as well.

Given the abysmal track record of D+D movies so far, I would not be betting the farm on this. How many failed movies will it take to get WOTC to stop beating this dead horse?

Instead of making movies titled "Dungeons and Dragons", I wonder if it ever occured to them to anchor a movie around a popular novel series instead, like maybe a set of books that keeps hitting the best seller list?

Those rights were sold Pre-Hasbro buyout, and DnD sold the rights in such a way that they have little if any control of them.

Hasbro has been fairly aggressive with producing big budget blockbuster adaptations of there products; While their movies haven't been exactly a huge critical success, one can't argue that the Transformer movies haven't made a ton of money.

Basically, comparing the previous attempts with both low budgets, poor scripts, and mostly no-name actors with whatever Hasbro is going to produce is probably not relevant.


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Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
I'd love to see a Summoner/Alch combo that involves building a companion, either from fleshwarping or going more tech and buliding your own personal servant built from whatever.

This is high on my list as well, although depending on how much class design varies from Starfinder, it might be pretty easy to adapt the Mechanic into Pathfinder, which fits the tech/clockwork side of things pretty well.


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Given that Hobgoblins have probably been used in the Nirmathas conflict, They might be holding a grudge from all the lives lost to guerilla tactics and sabotage.

Although I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Ironfang were a completely different group with nothing to do with the Molthuni mercenaries


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

{. . .}

As for Drow in Second Darkness, it has nothing to do with Drizzt. The whole AP is about the revelation that Drow exist and major plot elements involve the elves trying to cover that information up. That sort of plot...doesn't work really well if a Drow is in the party.

That isn't too hard to get by -- as long as not too many Drow are on the surface, the mystery isn't necessarily broken (for instance, from the point of view of the average people of RiddlePort, prior ro the events of Second Darkness, a Drow who didn't raise more ruckus than normal for the average people there would be just another weirdo who stepped off a ship).

Hobgoblins would still be easier, though. Probably a few Hobgoblin families have gotten to like living among (mostly) Human civilization to get some peace and quiet, especially in the case of those that deserted from Molthune's disposable trops to go live in Nirmathas. When the Ironfang Invasion comes, they will get rounded up and put into internment camps, in an eerie parallel to history of the last century on Earth . . . But in keeping with the same parallel, some may be allowed into the counterinvasion forces (admittedly this parallel doesn't completely hold up, because on Earth, the example involved the other front in a two front war).

I guess my issue is...why choose to play a Drow in Second Darkness or a Hobgoblin in Iron Fang? My bigger concern is not making the GM do extra work, but rather someone creating a character who inevitably will steal the focus of the game from other characters. There's plenty of APs where those characters (assuming your GM allows non-core races at all or would allow those specific ones) where those races would be fine. Hell a Hobgoblin would actually be kind of cool in Second Darkness, given their past history with the Elves (I doubt they distinguish much in their hatred between Drow and regular elves). And a Drow in exile keeping a low profile in Nirmathas could make an interesting PC as well. At this point there is...what? 30+ races in Pathfinder, and way more if you start including 3rd party. So why immediately go after the ONE Race that conflicts with the AP.


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Boomerang Nebula wrote:
What is Dominion of the Black?

An ancient alien threat that lies in the dark reaches between stars and harvest worlds for their biological material, and whose technology is entirely organic.

They were responsible for the crash of the Starmount into Golarion as were also involved in ancient Osirion, within the current Pathfinder setting.


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As someone who is pretty lenient on race selection (my runelord game's party included a kobold, a kitsune, and a Nagaji), I would not allow hobgoblins pcs in Ironfang. It just stretches my credibility a bit too far that a Hobgoblin wouldn't be treated with extreme suspicion if not outright hostility

As for Drow in Second Darkness, it has nothing to do with Drizzt. The whole AP is about the revelation that Drow exist and major plot elements involve the elves trying to cover that information up. That sort of plot...doesn't work really well if a Drow is in the party.


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The Hugo awards were presented last night...here are the winners:

Hugo award winners


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I too really like Hobgoblins too, although I don't necessarily default them to evil, and their society is modeled after the Peacekeepers from Farscape.


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John Kretzer wrote:
What is the show on Freeform?

Cloak and Dagger


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Ratings are the big difference. THe ratings required to be a sucess on CW are just far less than those needed for a channel like ABC, especially taking in account how expensive AoS is.

Supergirl got okay ratings but not okay enough for it's budget and for the expectations of CBS. Hence why, with a cut of budget, it went to CW, where it's ratings are way better.

The great thing is that Supergirl, The Flash, Green Arrow, and Legends of Tomorrow can now all crossover at will.

Marvel's current and upcoming shows are going to be distributed across ABC, Hulu, Netflix, and Freeform, and some of these are competing channels. It's going to be really really hard to get cohesion among the MCU shows.


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A grand tour of the setting is probably the best way to set up Starfinder, although such a tour could cover a very large range of stories.

Beyond that, I would love an AP about preventing an invasion by the Dominion of the Black, which I kind of hope are one of the major "big bads" of Starfinder.


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TRDG wrote:


1. Strange Aeons

2. Ironfang Invasion

3. Ruins of Azlant

4. Starfinder AP ?

1. Strange Aeons: #1 for me and the AP I have most anticipated. Love mythos fiction, love horror in general, and this AP seems to combine some really nifty ideas (starting off as a patient in an asylum) with some cool expansion beyond the Inner Sea (Dreamlands, Parchlands, Carcosa). Plus plenty of special non-ogl Chaosium monsters

2. Ironfang Invasion: Tied for #2 with Ruins of Azlant. Hobgoblins are some of my favorite "monster" races, as their combination of intelligence, organization, power, and sanity gives them a threat potential not really present in most of the other traditional monster races. So an AP that fleshes them out is pretty cool.

3. Ruins of Azlant: See above for ranking. Really interested in this in the sense that it will flesh out another new region of Golarion (really hoping for an Azlant CS book from this), hopefully provide a lot more info on the Aboleth, and looks to be trying some innovative stuff.

4. Uhh? I will almost certainly buy the hardcover, but as yet there is zero info on what the first AP is even about (Science fantasy is kind of...broad topic), so I have no idea if I will subscribe or not. It's also going to be dependent on my financial situation. Two AP subscriptions adds up fast

To give some context, I will most likely keep my Pathfinder subscription for the next three APs. I however did cancel it for Mummy's Mask (seems to have too much dungeon diving), Giantslayer (theme just didn't grab me at all), and Hell's Vengeance (Not really fan of AP's with the default assumption everyone is evil...just not interested in delving into villainy and seeing what players can come up with as evil bastards).


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I think we are getting 3 new corruptions in the Horror Realms book. I'd be curious to see what niches are left over after that CS book, that 3pp can fill.

I'd also like to see more expanded options for the existing corruptions, so you could better match say more specific types of vampire or lycanthrope.


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Davor Firetusk wrote:
One big benefit going back to 2E was that a large amount of optional rules were setting specific. Which I think made it more natural for people to ignore extra mechanics, and options that didn't appeal to them. Thus far Pathfinder has attempted to integrate many different genre options into 1 setting. There is a trade-off there, namely it gives you there larger potential market for selling new rules books but makes for potentially larger and larger barriers for new players.

Well with Starfinder I think we are seeing at least the testing of waters on new setting specific rules. Since it's sounds like it will be pretty compatible with Pathfinder, but will have a lot changes to mechanics for better emulation of science fiction versus epic fantasy.


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Generic Villain wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:


I don't know...with the deal with Chaosium deal they might hold up statting up the "Paizo originals", other than Xhamen-Dor.

Rhan-Tegoth and Chaugnar Faugn get artwork which suggests they might not get selected?

I can see your point with the Chaosium deal.

But regarding illustrations, consider: Hastur is illustrated for a second time instead of Ghatanothoa. Also, Xhamen-Dor instead of Tsathoggua, when again - we know Xhamen-Dor is going to be statted and receive a second mugshot. Thus, I would say that the gods who receive an illustration in the Elder Mythos article is not a factor in which will be statted up in the next few volumes.

*Also, whoops: I forgot to include Yig in my previous post of possible candidates. I could see him being statted, as the outlier of the Elder Mythos. Which is to say, the only one who could even kind of be considered benevolent.

Well I will guess we will find out when we find out :)

Although Ithaqua was one of the Chaosium mythos entities I was personally most hoping for, so glad that got in.


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also that should totally be marshal not martial. I blame too many martial vs caster threads for that mistake...


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They may also be okay with a Punisher series because they plan to combine Luke Cage + Iron Fist post defenders, and just do a "Heroes for Hire" series. That's been my suspicion this entire time on their long term plans for those properties.

That's been my theory on why there is room for Punisher.

I honestly worry a bit we are getting too many Marvel shows spread across too many channels. There already is barely any overlap between movies, netflix, and ABC, and adding two more networks into the mix isn't going to help that.

Also was really hoping for a Runaways movie, since I question the ability of Hulu to martial enough of an effects budget for the show.


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Marco Massoudi wrote:

We have other nations were it would make sense to put them together into one book (because it would be hard to fill 64 pages with one of them alone or because they are linked thematically):

"Lands of Frost": Realm of the Mammoth Lords & Crown of the World (from Jade Regent Book 3)

-"Lands of Mists and Veils": Mendev & Brevoy

-"Lands of Legacy": Lastwall & Razmiran

-"Lands of Commerce": Druma & Isger

-"Lands of Sands": Rahadoum & Thuvia

-"Lands of Hurricane": Illizmagorti & Sodden Lands

-"Lands of Magic": Nex & Geb (with the Mana Wastes in between)

Varisia, Kyonin, the Five King´s Mountains and Taldor are probably big/interesting enough to get their own books.

Eh...I get why doing these two nations together makes sense (since from the beginning there big deal was fighting each other), but don't want to see this really pop up too often. Most of those nations have very different themes that do not jell at all together well.


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Today's bit of (unintentional) Trump humor:

"Doubling down on appeals to black voters that have become a mainstay of his stump speech this week, Donald Trump made a bold prediction about his ability to attract the support of the African-American community if he gets the chance to run for reelection in 2020.

"At the end of four years, I guarantee you I will get over 95 percent of the African-American vote. I promise you," Trump said to a largely white audience Dimondale, Mich., a town where in 2010 just 9 of the town's 1,234 residents were black, according to census data."


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Oh I am quite aware that the republicans themselves have noticed this. Which just makes it all the more hilarious when they don't seem to have the will do make the changes or that their base has not interest in the party changing.

They don't have a choice really.

Their real goal is "all money and power to those with money and power". That's... not a goal you're going to win elections on.

You can dress it up as FREEDOOOM! from the government but that lie only gets you so many people

So over the years they've had to stir up fear, anger and hatred against different groups and make them the scapegoat. you're not broke because your CEO is making 268 times your salary and half your money goes to taxes because he's not paying any, you're broke because that black welfare mother has food medicine and a cel phone! GET her!

And because that's not enough on its own, they need to appeal to the christians who think the government should promote christianity. This dovetails nicely with their anti science that tells us we shouldn't be making this much money this way push, because they're about the only large group that hates science.

So they're stuck with what they have. They've (hopefully) swung the pendant as far that way as it will go and it's time for it to tip back, hopefully this time hard.

Eh the party could rebrand themselves and still maintain a lot of friendliness towards big business. If anything, the current base's extreme stance on things like immigration are probably against their interests.


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Oh I am quite aware that the republicans themselves have noticed this. Which just makes it all the more hilarious when they don't seem to have the will do make the changes or that their base has not interest in the party changing.


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Turin the Mad wrote:

CNN article on a Pew Research Center poll from yesterday afternoon.

The current electoral map from real clear politics paints an interesting picture of the next election

By my count, if Hillary is only able to win blue states that are solid or lean blue, she gets 252 electoral votes. At that point, she only needs one or two toss up states to win (Ohio alone would get her to 270).

In contrast, Trump has about 137 electoral votes locked down by the same measure. Not only does he need to keep those, but to win he also has to win EVERY SINGLE CURRENT TOSS UP STATE and steal a few blue states from Hillary.

It does sort of really hammer home the demographic problems Republicans are facing. They maintain significant influence over a good chunk of the country, but its mostly less populated rural areas with few electoral votes. with shifting demographics associated with change in population, without rebranding, Republicans are soon going to be incapable of winning the presidency.


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thejeff wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Trump obviously has no discipline as far as the campaign goes. He can do okay (by Republican standards) as long as it's well rehearsed or a teleprompter is involved. Give him any opportunity to to add lib though and it all goes to hell.

And the worst of it, the bar is so low for him that even knowing that, if he could restrain himself to only doing rehearsed/teleprompter speeches, that would be enough. He'd be treated as a respectable, serious candidate. It would hailed as a real change, despite everyone knowing it's just him being kept on a tight rein by his handlers.

Do we assume everything he might do or say as President would be dictated by his handlers as well?

Remember a couple years ago when one of the big talking points was how bad Obama was speaking without his teleprompter. We're not even in the same world here.

Well I don't think most people here think...a week without a major gaffe/inflammatory comment means he is presidential. He is not fooling us

The thing is if he can keep it up, we are far enough from the actual election that at least some swing state voters, who don't really want to vote for Hillary, might forget some of the scandals and be satisfied to vote for him. Not to mention firm up some Republican support.

Granted I am skeptical this will last more than a week tops. even if campaign appearances become more scripted there are still press interviews and potentially the debates, all of which will be hard to keep Trump reigned in during.


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Trump obviously has no discipline as far as the campaign goes. He can do okay (by Republican standards) as long as it's well rehearsed or a teleprompter is involved. Give him any opportunity to to add lib though and it all goes to hell.


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on the other hand, Trump last night expressed "regrets" over past comments, which I think is a campaign first.

Granted I am not sure how long this attempted turn around will last, but it does suggest some attempt to get the campaign back on track.


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I don't know...with the deal with Chaosium deal they might hold up statting up the "Paizo originals", other than Xhamen-Dor.

Rhan-Tegoth and Chaugnar Faugn get artwork which suggests they might not get selected?


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Yeah...the Breitbart support suggests Trump is probably going to just double down on what he has been doing the last few weeks. We will see how many more teleprompter speeches occur post transition

Like I implied before, I think Trump wants the fame of the presidency, not the actual job. He enjoys the attention, and his normal mode of speaking at rallies does a better job of that. Even if at the same time it's driving off moderates and even regular republicans in droves, while scaring the crap out of people who don't like Hillary and probably wouldn't show up election day if Trump wasn't around.


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James Jacobs wrote:


You'll note that there's one thing that all 11 of the authors I mentioned above share—they're mostly known as horror writers or DARK fantasy writers. The two exceptions would be George R. R. Martin (whose Game of Thrones stories contain more than enough to quantify them as horror, and who has also written plenty of horror stories himself) and Dan Simmons (who is a VERY well-rounded genre-hopping author, but who got his start doing horror).

I generally am not as interested in other genres, and as a result, authors who don't write dark stuff or horror tend not to interest me. Ursula K. Le Guin's stories aren't dark and creepy enough for me, and her writing style isn't interesting enough for me to make an exception as a result.

Speaking of female horror authors, have you read much from Gemma Files? I have only read her short fiction, which seems so far that it would be up your alley.

Caitlin R. Kiernan is kind of a hero of mind. Did you know that her professional background is in Paleontology, and she actually has formally described a new species of Mosasaur? I kind of wish she was still active in the field since it would be totally cool to bump into her at an Vert paleontology meeting.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:

What, actually, is there to like about the Republican platform? I'm serious! In what way does it actually benefit a typical blue-collar Southern voter?

There's a lot of stuff in there that's explicitly harmful to "the wrong kind of people." For example, there's a lot of stuff in there that will make life harder for LGBT people, and there's quite a bit in there that will make life harder for non-Christian religions, and there's quite a bit in there about keeping women in their place.

On the other hand, the economic plan has been amply demonstrated to be harmful to the lower middle class. Tax cuts for the rich that don't actually trickle down. Deregulation to make corporate profits higher but workplaces less safe. Reduced protection for labor rights. Et cetera.

The Republican plan is basically an exercise in schadenfreude; it makes things worse for me, but it makes thing even worse for Them, so I guess I can feel superior. But when you're campaigning on the schadenfreude ticket, the winner will be the one who promises the worst possible outcome for Them, so in a sense, Trump is a logical consequence of the fact that Jeb didn't actually offer anything to make Joe Sixpack's life better, and Trump would make Joe's Mexican neighbor's life worse....

Trumps entire campaign relies upon emotional appeals aimed at the fears of republicans voters, even if most of those fears are actually unfounded. People genuinely think Trump will bring back the imagined America of their youth or whatever, and are not going to rationally respond to arguments that suggest it never existed or that things are not apocalyptic right now


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
I think the Republican party will be quite happy to throw Trump under the bus if(when?) he looses the election.

Who is "the party"? The RNC would happily throw him under the bus right now, and would have done so in April if they could have done it without alienating the voting base.

I don't think the voting base will be as happy to return to business-as-usual in 2018 or 2020. The next candidate who campaigns on a platform of "eliminate the estate tax" and "more free trade pacts so that American companies can export more goods [and jobs]" is going to have a hard time getting out from under Trump's shadow.

Indeed, the RNC was happy to throw the Tea Party under the bus this time around, but couldn't manage it. One of the things that the post-2012 autopsy made clear is that Palin and her followers were actually a net hindrance, but that didn't translate into the votes they needed at the primary level.

Oh by Party I meant the establishment, and what you posted all goes back to what I posted earlier: RNC strategists know exactly why they are doing poorly right now, but any changes to address those issues are likely to result in alienating the same voters that keep existing Republicans in office in deep red states. Movements to implement those by politicians will almost certainly result in them losing primaries to tea party candidates.

They will go ahead and blame Trump for the losses. But Trump will blame...well everyone else (Media/RNC establishment/rigging of the election/etc). And I would bet that the core block that got Trump the nomination are going to believe Trump and not Paul Ryan and crew.


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Stereofm wrote:

Anyways, I don't recall a western fantasy setting that's really representative of Europe, much less of medieval europe.

Game of Thrones is the closest thing I know.

Kind of depends on how you define "close" really. I have come across a decent number of literature fantasy series that roughly model some time of version of Fantasy Europe. And then there are others that take some of the set dressing such as swords, armors, and kings, but not much else. Most Fantasy RPG setting tend more towards the latter than the former.

And then you get the folklore and mythology of Europe influencing the setting. Elves, Dwarves, etc. tend to be much more alien if not completely absent in other cultural mythologies.


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Guy Humual wrote:
I think it's likely that people will blame Cruz for the inevitable defeat of Trump, claiming it was a lack of party unity that caused the xenophobic isolationist failed business man to lose the election. Certainly current donors have already said don't look to us for money in 2020, and it's possible that they'll keep their words, some of these big money guys have long memories, and sellout politicians are a dime a dozen. Cruz really doesn't bring anything that special to the table, I'm not sure he's that much of a draw to the Latin community and there's dozens of people that can pretend to religious, heck even Donald Trump is pretending (badly) and that seems to be good enough for the majority. Cruz may have thought that he was setting himself up for a 2020 run but I think he forgot to factor in that one crucial component that could be the monkey wrench in his plans: the fact that nobody likes him.

I think the Republican party will be quite happy to throw Trump under the bus if(when?) he looses the election. He doesn't actually have a lot of actual supporters among established politicians, and they will almost certainly want to distance themselves from his comments. Not sure if Cruz will recover from what he did or not: he is also an unpopular figure among the establishment. I would say Kasich would have the most to gain, if he did even remotely well in the Primary (which he kind of didn't).

I expect the RNC will probably look very closely at how they choose presidential nominees, and attempt to revise the system to make it difficult for outsiders like Trump to win.


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thejeff wrote:


It's not an anomaly, but built on what came before.
It might be a wake-up call, but I doubt it. Most likely "He wasn't a real conservative. We just need to nominate a true conservative next time."
It's not the new normal. It's either going to get worse or better. I think we've got at least one more cycle of worse. Can't say whether the Republican Party will reform itself into something viable or shatter and be replaced.

The problem that the Republican Party has is that the politicians from the "core" red states are still successful at getting elected. They don't see any need to change rhetoric or direction in the party, since such a change probably wouldn't sit well with their base.

I mean the Republican strategists and consultants are not idiots. They know that if they want to be relevant they need to appeal to minorities. They know that our country is increasingly secular. That key policies of there party are no longer really catching the younger voters.

How do you change course on the above if a good chunk of your supporters don't care about the above concerns, and are actively engaged with the current agenda?


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thejeff wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Trump may be the first presidential nominee to leave the country in a mess after the election, without actually being elected.
He's not making the mess, he's just pointing out how bad it's gotten. This is what republicans have had to resort to for decades to get people to go along with their economic policies that funnel money to the rich.

Saying "he's just pointing out how bad it's gotten" makes it sound like he's doing that on purpose. I'd say "Serving as an example of how bad it's gotten".

Beyond that, I'd agree with Hitdice - he's a product of the vicious cycle the GOP is caught in, but he's also pushing it further.

I'd also differ from MMCJawa in that he's not the first. McCain and particularly his selection of Palin did a similar kind of damage, in many ways pointing the way to where we are now.

Did McCain and Palin really result in a potential equivalent amount of damage? I think the fact that Obama was black with a "foreign" name and was interpreted as "far left" would have resulted in the radicalization no matter who the candidate was.


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It's the inevitable end product of the Republican party's tactics for the past multiple decades, furthered along by the development of internet and a news channel that can enforce that skewed image of reality they have.

It is a "break" from anything that has come before however. Trump's rhetoric is far more inflammatory and problematic than any past nominee since I have been old enough to pay attention. The big question is whether this is an anomaly, a wake up call, or the new normal for the Republican Party.


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NPR has a bit more detailed background behind the situation that Trump just stepped in with the "vote monitors". Long Story short is he could be causing some major issues for the RNC on legal grounds, as legally this may violate a consent ruling in effect on the party from 1982 (when they tried something similar in New Jersey).

Trump calls to stake out polling places


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Trump may be the first presidential nominee to leave the country in a mess after the election, without actually being elected.


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NO WAY this can go wrong:

Trump solicits election observers after warning of vote rigging


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Southlands By Kobold Press did and Okay job, although it leaned a bit too heavily on ancient Egypt IMHO

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