|
So this came up at a game session last night when one of our clerics with a lion wanted to cast "shield other"on his cat. He had the ring on his cat, per the spell requirements but the GM stated that a cat doesn't have fingers so the spell cannot be applied. We were ok with that but it left a lot of lingering questions.
So my question after heavily researching is can an animal companion have rings. As we know they can have armor and neck slots and other things so long as they meet the requirements. But what about rings or bracelets?
Thanks in advance!
|
IIRC All animal companions in PFS can only wear neck items/barding.
On the fly I would likely not object to the shield other ring but would not hold it against a GM who does.
A strict reading of the rules seems to forbid this, although wearing non-magic items is a little weird in D&D since they don't use item slots.
Only if they're apes or monkeys. :)
Evolution for the Win!
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
|
Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?
The intent is that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items that require activation. Something like an amulet of natural armor does not require activation; it's always on (unless it's in an antimagic field or someone dispels it or whatever).That said, a creature is limited by its anatomy. Something without shoulders can't wear a cloak, and something without fingers can't wear a ring. For the sake of PFS, animal companions can wear barding and neck-slot items. All other slots aren't really appropriate for animals (or even magical beasts). The only exception to this would be an brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar gained with the Improved Familiar feat. One could reasonably face either of these wielding a wand or wearing a circlet of persuasion in combat, and after investing a feat to gain their service, they are not limited by the same restrictions as normal bonded creatures like animals (whether treated like animals or magical beasts and regardless of Int scores).
So no to rings, even if they are a monkey
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
<-----Acknowledges being the Rule following GM in question.
Fixed that for you.
Not to pick a nit but-
they don't have rings slots. but the ring in question isn't a magic ring. Its just a circular piece of whatever that something wears for the spell to take effect.
This isn't the same thing as asking if it can wear a Ring of the Ram or something.
the FAQ is about magical items. the OP isn't asking about a magical item.
he's asking if he can put a *non magical* item on his familiar.
Your replies are like someone asking if he can wear a 3rd ring which is gold and non-magical and being told that he can't because you can only wear two..
-S
|
Not to pick a nit but-
they don't have rings slots. but the ring in question isn't a magic ring. Its just a circular piece of whatever that something wears for the spell to take effect.This isn't the same thing as asking if it can wear a Ring of the Ram or something.
the FAQ is about magical items. the OP isn't asking about a magical item.
he's asking if he can put a *non magical* item on his familiar.Your replies are like someone asking if he can wear a 3rd ring which is gold and non-magical and being told that he can't because you can only wear two..
-S
You make a good point. I think this likely falls into the crack of 'expect table variation'. In this case (with it being a lion), I'd probably say you couldn't do it, since it doesn't have fingers to put the ring on. On an ape it would likely be ok, though.
|
|
provide the AC with a Hand of Glory - which occupies the neck slot. and allows you to wear an extra ring.
could the AC then wear a Ring of Protection AND a non-magical ring (focus) for the Shield Other spell?
what about ear rings?
If you wanted to spend that extra gold on the Hand of Glory, I'd allow you to use the Ring of Protection for the AC.
The Shield Other ring I dont think would work cuse the spell says the target has to wear the ring, but in this case it's the hand og glordy wearing the ring, not the animal.
Also, I think Shield Other would have to be a regular finger ring, since it doesnt specify otherwise.
|
|
The Shield Other ring I dont think would work cuse the spell says the target has to wear the ring, but in this case it's the hand og glordy wearing the ring, not the animal.
This is semantics though. If I'm wearing a hand of glory, I effectively have 3 ring slots. Any ring I put on the hand is effectively being worn by me.
Otherwise you are saying that when I put a ring of protection +1 ("grants the wearer") on my hand of glory, I don't get the +1 AC, the hand does. And that's silly.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
So put a hand of glory on your animal companion and they can then use rings?
And if you taxidermy a pair of arms onto their backs they can use wands!
...what I said is probably not allowed (definitely not allowed), but what Todd's saying probably is. It's a neck item slot so they can wear it, and that neck item allows you to use it as a ring slot, so I don't see a problem with it.
|
Not to pick a nit but-
they don't have rings slots. but the ring in question isn't a magic ring. Its just a circular piece of whatever that something wears for the spell to take effect.
It isn't a magical ring. Nor is it a circular piece of whatever; rather, it is a ring. This is the basis for the ruling that I provided at the table; not that it doesn't have a ring slot, but that it doesn't have a finger for a specific component that is required. Reskinning the focus to be something else, such as some custom paw band, ring on his tail, armband, bracelet, etc. is looking for table variance at best. It is somewhat related to the ring slot/AC slot FAQ in that the rationale is the same behind them....no finger.
|
|
would it be your ruling that he could not wear more than 2? (ring slots) or 8? (fingers) Does the Target of his spell have to have the Focus ring on in an empty ring slot? (1 or 2?)
It is not a magical ring. It does not occupy a ring slot.
The target of the spell has to wear the focus ring on a finger.
I don't care how many non-magical rings are being worn.
|
It isn't a magical ring. Nor is it a circular piece of whatever; rather, it is a ring. This is the basis for the ruling that I provided at the table; not that it doesn't have a ring slot, but that it doesn't have a finger for a specific component that is required. Reskinning the focus to be something else, such as some custom paw band, ring on his tail, armband, bracelet, etc. is looking for table variance at best. It is somewhat related to the ring slot/AC slot FAQ in that the rationale is the same behind them....no finger.
... The target of the spell has to wear the focus ring on a finger.
Well ... I will say this first: I totally agree with the ruling. The rules are fairly clear in that animal companions can't wear items other than those listed. Though the language is specifically geared toward "magical rings", I would use it to make a ruling on animals being able wear rings in general.
That being said, the only proviso is that I don't agree with it for the rationale given. The reasoning that leonine creatures don't have fingers doesn't really work for me. It just doesn't sit well. The anatomy of a cat includes phalanges (finger bones). There are many animals that do not have phalanges that in any way resemble "fingers", such as fish, birds, horses, pigs, cows, etc. But, cats (great or small, leonine or feline) have them. They may not have opposable thumbs, but then, primates do, and I don't think that they'd be able to wear magical rings, either.The problem in this situation, for me, is that a humanoid can wear two magical rings, as well as a ring that is a spell component. I generally assume that when the rules say "wear" or "worn", it means "wear in the customary method". So, the question becomes one for the Campaign Coordinator, or Designers, I think. Can creatures wear non-magical rings? In order to keep it playably uniform for all, I would think that I would say "no".
Just my two cents.
|
|
wow... lots of YMMV here.
Guess I'll just have to start asking each time I play a cleric that might cast the spell (and tell that darn Gnome to quite wearing it in her NOSE!).
I would like to point out that we are modifiying the spell to be:
Target one creature that can wear a ring on a finger
and not
Target one creature
I would suggest it is, rather, noting that the spell description also has a components line:
Components V, S, F (a pair of platinum rings worth 50 gp worn by both you and the target)
rather than:
Components V, S, F (a pair of thingamabobs made of platinum worth 50gp and in the general vicinity of both you and the target)
The material components/focus portion of the game may not be to everyone's taste. Essentially what we have going on is a division between viewing them as crunch or fluff.
|
|
Just a question, but who said that the line
Focus (a pair of platinum rings worth 50 gp worn by both you and the target)
had to be FINGER rings? and not toe rings, or ear rings or nose rings or... ah, other rings? The caster has to pay to have the rings crafted, so I would think he could have a different type of ring crafted. "Matching Orcish wedding rings, crafted to be worn in the nose..."
(I've know some people to wear rings in the strangest places.... just saying...)
This is effectively reskinning the focus, as I mentioned up in post #20. A ring, without an adjective, is customarily a finger ring.
If you want to get into discussions about alternative ring locations, you'll have to do it without me, sorry. It's kinda like a 2am discussion in a dorm lounge about politics....everyone has to participate once, but it doesn't mean ya gotta do it twice. :)
So if he cast it from a scroll or a wand, which don't require the use of a Focus, would it be OK? (The focus is used during creation of the scroll/wand and is not required to activate them)
Also, it says "worn by you and the target" why can't that be past-tense? If, at some point in the past, the animal was turned humanoid, and it put on the ring for a few seconds, then the ring has been worn by the companion. Use the two rings, still in your spell component pouch, as the focus for the spell.
|
|
Sorry, I must be missing something here...
so for you, my PC may only have 2 rings then? and if the PC has a ring of Protection and a ring of Feather Fall, he will have to remove one to wear the focus for the Shield Other spell?
I believe I already answered this above:
would it be your ruling that he could not wear more than 2? (ring slots) or 8? (fingers) Does the Target of his spell have to have the Focus ring on in an empty ring slot? (1 or 2?)It is not a magical ring. It does not occupy a ring slot.
The target of the spell has to wear the focus ring on a finger.
I don't care how many non-magical rings are being worn.
|
|
Hand of Glory: "This mummified human hand hangs by a leather cord around a character's neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). If a magic ring is placed on one of the fingers of the hand, the wearer benefits from the ring as if wearing it herself, and it does not count against her two-ring limit. The hand can wear only one ring at a time. Even without a ring, the hand itself allows its wearer to use daylight and see invisibility each once per day."
Not sure what Hand of Glory has to do with the subject at hand (heh) at all. The focus ring is not a magic ring. Hand of Glory provides no benefit with respect to the focus ring and/or shield other.
Heading out for an evening of gaming. Have fun all.
So now the magical item slots apply to non-magical items in PFS?
-S
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
had to be FINGER rings? and not toe rings, or ear rings or nose rings or... ah, other rings?
Ring (n): A small circular band, typically of precious metal and often set with one or more gemstones, worn on a finger as an ornament or token.
A ring is worn on the finger, it's in the dictionary definition, it is the way people use the word in everyday use. If they meant to include toe rings, it would say "rings, toe ring, or earrings". Because they are different things.
If a friend says he got a ring, I don't ask "Where did you put it?" because I know rings go on fingers. Likewise if he got a nipple ring, he would say 'nipple ring' because the two are not the same thing.
I've had many a game where I wanted to put a Ring of Sustenance on my cat, dog, familiar, animal companion, etc. Just too many starvation issues in dungeon delving.
The best I could think of was to change a Ring of Sustenance into a Collar of Sustenance. Hard to convince a GM of that, however.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
So now the magical item slots apply to non-magical items in PFS?
You can wear a ring, magical or otherwise, where ever you'd like. If you want to wear a ring of protection as a hat decoration, no problem.
If you want to gain magical benefits which are associated with an item which belongs in the ring slot then you must wear it on a finger.
|
|
Two questions to Judges to help me decide if I should continue to prepare Shield Other spells with my Cleric PCs.
If my PC Cleric wishes to throw the spell Shield Other on a fellow party member Fighter, and arrange ahead of time to provide him with a Focus ring (non-magical), can that PC also wear and use two magical rings, say a ring of Protection and a ring of Featherfall, while wearing the Focus for the Shield Other spell?
If my PC Cleric wishes to be prepared to throw the spell Shield Other on one of several party members, and arranges ahead of time to provide each with a Focus ring, can my PC wear more than two of these Focus rings at one time?
I don't think anyone is saying you can't do so, or you can't wear several focus rings on each finger. It doesn't count against the number of magical ring slots available.
However, you DO have to have a ring slot (i.e. finger in this case) to occupy in the first place to wear said ring. Animal companions in PFS have been defined to not have such a slot available by the FAQ.
|
|
Two questions to Judges to help me decide if I should continue to prepare Shield Other spells with my Cleric PCs.
If my PC Cleric wishes to throw the spell Shield Other on a fellow party member Fighter, and arrange ahead of time to provide him with a Focus ring (non-magical), can that PC also wear and use two magical rings, say a ring of Protection and a ring of Featherfall, while wearing the Focus for the Shield Other spell?
Yes.
If my PC Cleric wishes to be prepared to throw the spell Shield Other on one of several party members, and arranges ahead of time to provide each with a Focus ring, can my PC wear more than two of these Focus rings at one time?
Yes, but not need you need to. Seems like one ring on you can be the focus for as many 1-to-1 links that you want. "One ring to rule them all...."
If you had two clerics, each cleric could cast shield other on a fighter, with the fighter wearing a single ring to serve as the focus of each spell.
The focus requirement is a pair of platinum rings. One for caster, one for target. Any two makes a pair...or maybe I play too much cribbage.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So now the magical item slots apply to non-magical items in PFS?You can wear a ring, magical or otherwise, where ever you'd like. If you want to wear a ring of protection as a hat decoration, no problem.
If you want to gain magical benefits which are associated with an item which belongs in the ring slot then you must wear it on a finger.
That sounds awesome until your AC has barding on it and you want to toss a blanket over it to keep it warm.. it can't wear both items on the same "slot".
That sounds pedantic. I agree. But so does saying my AC can't wear a *non magical* item because of *magical item slot* restrictions.
Which is exactly what ruling was just pronounced. By RAW your AC can not have any item on it that isn't in one of those two slots mentioned. Period, end of story.
The item in question in this thread isn't a ring of protection or a ring of the ram. Its a completely 100% non magical 50 gold platinum ring.
This ruling says that in PFS I can't take an appropriately sized platinum ring and slide it onto the tail of a trained AC, or my familiar, or anything else.
Not talking about magic. Talking about a circle of metal here.
Does it impact me? not one bit. Am I trying to be rude to the guy who made the ruling? Not one bit. The guy does a *ton* of hard work and I respect him for it. But I do find myself hard pressed to agree with this particular ruling.
Animal Companion and Familiar owners beware- magical item slots also now apply to non-magical items.
-S