Fire themed mage (Sorc or Wiz)


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as subject reads... in yalls opinions which is the better fire elemental blaster. im teatering back and forth.

Dark Archive

There are advantages to both? I would have backup blasts that aren't fire though. There are too many things completely immune to it.


Sorcerer. Bloodline that boosts fire damage (Elemental: Primal, Orc, or Draconic)


It there any way to ignore or lessen resistance of immunity?

Dark Archive

This feat may help some

Elemental Spell (Metamagic)

You can manipulate the elemental nature of your spells.

Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type.

Level Increase: +1 (an elemental spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.

also... for a blaster to make lower level spells useful

Intensified Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can go beyond several normal limitations.

Benefit: An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat.

Level Increase: +1 (an intensified spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)


1 level of crossblooded sorcerer, then admixture evoker for the rest of your career.


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Definately Sorcerer.

Basically human (extra spells option)
Traits- Magical Lineage (fireball)

1- spell focus evoc, spell specialisation.
3- craft wonderous
5- intensify spell
7- B- Imp Initiative, Imp Familiar (Nosoi or Dust Mesphit or Imp)
9- Empower Spell
11- Dazing Spell
13- Quicken Spell
15- Spell Perfection
17- Piercing Spell
19- Maxise

Now this Sorcerer up to 11 is a Blaster.
Swap specialised spells from
Magic Missile
Burning Arc

These let you add 2 cl to blasts that can hit enemies safely for your allies.
Whack it on fireball ASAP for damage but watch out for buddies.
When.you get Dazing your fireball or Burning Arc becomes a damage+save or daze spell.

Use it for an opening blast and make enemies stand there dazed while your buddies kill them.

It by 15(spell perfection-fireball)

You can blast a Dazing, Intensified, Empowerd fireball for 22d6 w/3 round daze
6th level spell save dc using a 7th level slot.
You made your fighter a wonderous item that grants fire immunity.so hitting him won't hurt at all.

Dark Archive

An admixture evoker with Spell Specialization and Greater Spell Specialization has a lot of sorceresque blasting while still keeping its wizardy awesomeness.


Gnome, Pyromaniac (alt. racial trait), crossblood/wildblood Primal(Fire)/Draconic(Brass) Sorcerer1, Admixture Evoker from there. Take Magical Knack (Wizard) trait.

Dark Archive

Bongo BigBounce wrote:
Gnome, Pyromaniac (alt. racial trait), crossblood/wildblood Primal(Fire)/Draconic(Brass) Sorcerer1, Admixture Evoker from there. Take Magical Knack (Wizard) trait.

Blasting isn't so much about doing tons of damage as it is about controlling the battlefield with it.

I would rather have a full wizard with extra spell slots to apply metamagic to than one who does a few more points of damage.


Mergy wrote:
Bongo BigBounce wrote:
Gnome, Pyromaniac (alt. racial trait), crossblood/wildblood Primal(Fire)/Draconic(Brass) Sorcerer1, Admixture Evoker from there. Take Magical Knack (Wizard) trait.

Blasting isn't so much about doing tons of damage as it is about controlling the battlefield with it.

I would rather have a full wizard with extra spell slots to apply metamagic to than one who does a few more points of damage.

Which is why the 'save or daze' arcane bloodline sorcerer is so powerful

He can daze all day long for big damage with fireball.

He can switch to electricity and not hit allies, while still casting other spells (Dazing Ball lightning lasts rds/level and can be directed as a move action)

He can blast in every shape in every energy (Intensified Dragons breath)

He gets a TON of extra spells known for all the wizardly utility you need.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Reposting:

Paizo BLASTER CASTER build:
Goal: Pile on the hurty-hurt with direct damage spells. You don't need battlefield control if the enemy is dead.

Level 1: Take Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, Human, take Varisian Tattoo, take Trait: magical Lineage (pick spell), Reactionary (+2 Init)

Then take Wizard/Evoker -Admixture Specialist for your remaining levels. Why Admixture? Because you can change the element of any of your blasting spells on the fly to get around elemental resistances/immunities.

If you want to superspecialize outside of Evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools (Conjuration/Abjuration), gain yet another spell slot per level of raw power.

Key Feats: Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection, Spell Penetration, Spell Specialization, Greater Spell Specialization.

End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.
Spell Perfection allows free Quicken at higher levels.

===============================================
Play Hints:

Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early. Burning Hands will deal more damage, Magic Missile has better long-term utility and keeps you out of danger. Every other level, you can change your specialized spell.

Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? You can then memorize utility spells, and trash them for your blaster spell.

Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign, typically at 5 or 7.

At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.

Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.

Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture = +2 dmg/die on blasting spells.

FEATS
Intensify Spell: Increases caster level damage cap +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d4+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.

Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.

Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.

Spell Specialization: +2 to caster level with a specific spell. Helps bring the damage earlier and faster.

Varisian Tattoo: +1 to Caster level with a specific school (Evo). This buys off your sorc level.

Greater Spell Specialization: Sacrifice spells to power your chosen blaster spell. Means you can memorize utility spells freely.

Spell Perfection: Doubles fixed feat bonuses, apply one metamagic for free. An Empowered/Intensified spell with Magical Lineage is still its original spell slot. SPell Penetration doubles to +4. Varisian Tattoo to +2. Spell Specialization to +4. Effectively, you've got +10 on Spell Resistance rolls, and are casting at 5 levels higher then your own.

Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 5 slot.
Quicken for another hit, 5th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 165.
= 330 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2. If you've a Rod of Maximize, you can lift this to 215 base damage.

Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 165 dmg.

BY LEVEL

At level 1, your Burning Hands should be 2d4+4 (avg 9)

At level 2, its unchanged.

At level 3, Spell Specialization kicks in. 5d4+10 (22.5). This tops it unless you Intensify it.

At 4th, 6d4+12 (27), Intensified BH.

At 5th, Intensified BH, 7d4+14 (31.5).

At 6th, you can shift Spec to Scorching Ray. 2x 4d6+8 (44). Your Fireball is 5d6+10 as well, or 7d6+14 if specced.

At 7th, 6d6+12 fireball, or 8d6+18 if spec. An Empowered, Intensified Burning Hands, if still the spec spell, is 13.5d4+27 (about 60).

8th - Empowered Scorching Ray, 2 x 6d6+12. E/I BH is 15d6+30 (74, max)

9th - Intensified, Specialized Fireball is 11d6+22 (51).

10th - Firesnake. E/Spec Fireball is 15d6+30 (74). Emp Scorching Rays are 3 x 6d6+12, or 18d6+36 (99 dmg). You can now Quicken a Burning Hands or Magic Missile as kicker damage in a round, although you've few slots.

12th - E/I/Spec Fireball is 21d6+42 (115) damage. You can now Quicken a 12d6+24 Scorching Ray.

14th level - A Specialized Firesnake now exceeds/equals an intensified Fireball. Fireball caps at 22.5d6+ 45 (123~) damage. An Empowered Firesnake is 24d6+48 (132) damage. You can now Quicken a 10d6+20 Fireball. Intensified, Empowered Scorching Ray tops out at 24d6+48 (132 dmg)

15th level - Spell Perfection. You can now add a Meta for Free. This will be Quicken or Empower. Intensified might be free if Magical Lineage applies to it. Caster level buffs for spec spell exceed +5, so top out at 20d6 dmg at 15th level. You will miss Spell Resistance rolls against CR appropriate enemies on a 1.
Assuming Firesnake, you can now cast a Quickened Intensified Firesnake for 20d6+40 (110) damage out of a 5th level slot, and an Empowered Firesnake out of the same slot for 30d6+60 (165) damage. Using a 7th level slot, you can Empower both.

16th+ - Damage remains the same, higher level spell slots are open for use of other Metas or control spells.

Conceivably you could use Disintegrate to get a higher damage total, but the delay isn't worth it, and you'd lose the Varisian tattoo bonus.

If your DM allows you Twin Spell from 3.5, you can very, very easily clock in at 495 raw dmg/round. IF he allows Arcane Thesis, god help your enemies.

==+Aelryinth


Elemental Bloodline (Fire) Gnome Sorcerer with Pyromaniac Racial Trait would be my first opinion. The ability to turn Cone of Cold and Chain Lightning into fire spells means as you get spell levels you are really collecting different shapes to do different amounts of d6 per caster level (+1 extra d6 due to pyromaiac) to (also once Fireball caps actually still be doing d6 per caster level (+1 extra d6) with the higher level spells.) Pick up Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Elemental Focus and Greater Elemental Focus along with Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration and you'll be lighting people on fire all over the place.

Also a Sorcerer who runs into a Fire Elemental can always cast Cone of Cold as cold damage, whereas a Wizard who has prepared a Fireball with Metamagic can't.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

If you have access to 3.5 material, take a look at the "Sandstorm" book. There's a nifty little metamagic feat in there called "Searing Spell." Lets your [Fire] spells ignore fire resistance, and immune creatures still take half damage. The "Frostburn" supplement has a similar feat for [Cold] spells.


Dotted

Dark Archive

Dragon's breath makes for a great blasting spell, especially for sorcerers, because it's so ridiculously versatile. If you're not going admixture wizard or with a bloodline that lets you change elements, this is a great spell to specialize, perfect, etc.


I think you need to toss up awesome damage vs damn good damage+ daze

Using Aelryinth's build vs mine at 15th you get his 20d6+40 (110) firesnake (in any element)
In a 5th level slot and enemy gets to retaliate (if he lives) Vs
Save or Daze Sorc's empowerd Intensified dazing 22d6 (66) fireball +3 rounds of enemy does nothing from a 5th level slot at a higher DC.

Btw- his build only gets to spont metamagic that 1 spell.
Mr sorc can do it to any spell.

Dark Archive

Fire themed is probably the worst element for the purposes of resistance. Acid isn't too bad, and cold isn't too bad unless you're in Coldland where everything is immune to it.


How about sorc with a dip into flame oracle for burning magic?

If you go crossblooded sorc with orc/x and worship the fire god you could take fire god's blesing for a little self healing.

Liberty's Edge

Sorc is better for a minmaxed fire blaster. Unfortunately, fire is an extremely common resistance and immunity, so you need backup spells and you want options in those cases. A sorc is not going to have much of a contingency plan. I'd go wizard.


with the crossblooded sorc you can take a bloodline, that allows you to change the energy type, the other for bonus damage.

then you got two options:
1)take a bloodline that lets you change spells into fire and learn some non fire spells
2) take a bloodline that lets you change spells into something other than fire and learn mostly fire spells.

both ways give you backup solutions for fire resistant enemies.

energy admixture is not the only way to change energy types. As much as ppl tend to do as if it was true.

Liberty's Edge

I had a fire elemental bloodline sorc, all of his spells were fire related and was gonna modify cryomancer from Frostburn to a fire themed class. Unfortunately a x3 crit killed him in the second book of the AP. It was LoF, cryomancer has abilities that let you overcome energy immunity.

Dark Archive

Umbranus wrote:

with the crossblooded sorc you can take a bloodline, that allows you to change the energy type, the other for bonus damage.

then you got two options:
1)take a bloodline that lets you change spells into fire and learn some non fire spells
2) take a bloodline that lets you change spells into something other than fire and learn mostly fire spells.

both ways give you backup solutions for fire resistant enemies.

energy admixture is not the only way to change energy types. As much as ppl tend to do as if it was true.

True. I happen to like the marid bloodline for changing fire into cold. Of course dragon's breath is still the most versatile of spells for this, and really should be on any blasty sorcerer's spell list.


Fire oracles actually make really good blasters as well as having a TON of utility.

Dark Archive

Thefurmonger wrote:
Fire oracles actually make really good blasters as well as having a TON of utility.

The issue being they only blast fire. <---


Mergy wrote:
Thefurmonger wrote:
Fire oracles actually make really good blasters as well as having a TON of utility.
The issue being they only blast fire. <---

Well, yes.

However any of the sorc builds have the same issue, being best with one element.

The fix is the same for the oracle, a meta-magic, real or rod, to change the element.

I only mention the oracle due to it having great blasting as well as the cleric spell list and auto knowing all the heals.

Its nice to have something else to do and heals add a lot of utility.

Also the Revelations add a lot of cool stuff that only you can do.

Seeing right through your lingering fireballs is AMAZING


Liongold wrote:
as subject reads... in yalls opinions which is the better fire elemental blaster. im teatering back and forth.

Despite having the same spell list the two classes are very different.

I find that many people miss this and wind up playing one class as the other then find it lacking for that reason.

What levels are you looking at playing, how fast will you be leveling, what sources can you take, and what will the rest of the party be playing?

-James

Dark Archive

Thefurmonger wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Thefurmonger wrote:
Fire oracles actually make really good blasters as well as having a TON of utility.
The issue being they only blast fire. <---

Well, yes.

However any of the sorc builds have the same issue, being best with one element.

The fix is the same for the oracle, a meta-magic, real or rod, to change the element.

I only mention the oracle due to it having great blasting as well as the cleric spell list and auto knowing all the heals.

Its nice to have something else to do and heals add a lot of utility.

Also the Revelations add a lot of cool stuff that only you can do.

Seeing right through your lingering fireballs is AMAZING

It's true, having the cleric spell list is pretty nice. When I think of a dedicated blaster, however, I want a class that can blast despite immunity to their chosen type. Shaitan or marid bloodlines mean that you can learn fire spells and then turn them into acid or cold respectively when your first element proves to be unproductive.


Mergy wrote:
Thefurmonger wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Thefurmonger wrote:
Fire oracles actually make really good blasters as well as having a TON of utility.
The issue being they only blast fire. <---

Well, yes.

However any of the sorc builds have the same issue, being best with one element.

The fix is the same for the oracle, a meta-magic, real or rod, to change the element.

I only mention the oracle due to it having great blasting as well as the cleric spell list and auto knowing all the heals.

Its nice to have something else to do and heals add a lot of utility.

Also the Revelations add a lot of cool stuff that only you can do.

Seeing right through your lingering fireballs is AMAZING

It's true, having the cleric spell list is pretty nice. When I think of a dedicated blaster, however, I want a class that can blast despite immunity to their chosen type. Shaitan or marid bloodlines mean that you can learn fire spells and then turn them into acid or cold respectively when your first element proves to be unproductive.

And I can agree with that.

The OP asked for a fire blaster, so thats what I gave him.

With one 3k meta rod you can change 3 blasts a day into something besides fire.

To me thats enough. thats one fight.

And the added utility the oracle brings is amazing, from the revelations to the spells no other blaster gets (Heal? yes please) to me you seem much better.

I look at it as a sorc vs. oracle thing.

As an oracle (barring human favored class) you have way more spells known.

Again, it is a different feel, but if you want a fire blaster it is hard to beat.


STR Ranger wrote:

Definately Sorcerer.

Basically human (extra spells option)
Traits- Magical Lineage (fireball)

1- spell focus evoc, spell specialisation.
3- craft wonderous
5- intensify spell
7- B- Imp Initiative, Imp Familiar (Nosoi or Dust Mesphit or Imp)
9- Empower Spell
11- Dazing Spell
13- Quicken Spell
15- Spell Perfection
17- Piercing Spell
19- Maxise

Now this Sorcerer up to 11 is a Blaster.
Swap specialised spells from
Magic Missile
Burning Arc

These let you add 2 cl to blasts that can hit enemies safely for your allies.
Whack it on fireball ASAP for damage but watch out for buddies.
When.you get Dazing your fireball or Burning Arc becomes a damage+save or daze spell.

Use it for an opening blast and make enemies stand there dazed while your buddies kill them.

It by 15(spell perfection-fireball)

You can blast a Dazing, Intensified, Empowerd fireball for 22d6 w/3 round daze
6th level spell save dc using a 7th level slot.
You made your fighter a wonderous item that grants fire immunity.so hitting him won't hurt at all.

I've only theorycrafted this build and want to play it.

After reading Aerlinth's post through I am wondering if crossblooded is worth it.

Currently the build is a regular Arcane.bloodline Sorc.

If I go crossblooded, I lose 1 spell per level and -2 will.
If I take shaitan bloodline I would be able to freely change energy to Acid (the least resisted element) or any other of the elemental bloodlines. Pretty much all the bloodline powers are inferior to arcane so I'd stick with those.

Or
I could take the Orc bloodline for it's +1/die for ALL damaging spells and get darkvision.

So IS the loss in spells per level worth either of these options?


Dotted.

Dark Archive

STR Ranger wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

Definately Sorcerer.

Basically human (extra spells option)
Traits- Magical Lineage (fireball)

1- spell focus evoc, spell specialisation.
3- craft wonderous
5- intensify spell
7- B- Imp Initiative, Imp Familiar (Nosoi or Dust Mesphit or Imp)
9- Empower Spell
11- Dazing Spell
13- Quicken Spell
15- Spell Perfection
17- Piercing Spell
19- Maxise

Now this Sorcerer up to 11 is a Blaster.
Swap specialised spells from
Magic Missile
Burning Arc

These let you add 2 cl to blasts that can hit enemies safely for your allies.
Whack it on fireball ASAP for damage but watch out for buddies.
When.you get Dazing your fireball or Burning Arc becomes a damage+save or daze spell.

Use it for an opening blast and make enemies stand there dazed while your buddies kill them.

It by 15(spell perfection-fireball)

You can blast a Dazing, Intensified, Empowerd fireball for 22d6 w/3 round daze
6th level spell save dc using a 7th level slot.
You made your fighter a wonderous item that grants fire immunity.so hitting him won't hurt at all.

I've only theorycrafted this build and want to play it.

After reading Aerlinth's post through I am wondering if crossblooded is worth it.

Currently the build is a regular Arcane.bloodline Sorc.

If I go crossblooded, I lose 1 spell per level and -2 will.
If I take shaitan bloodline I would be able to freely change energy to Acid (the least resisted element) or any other of the elemental bloodlines. Pretty much all the bloodline powers are inferior to arcane so I'd stick with those.

Or
I could take the Orc bloodline for it's +1/die for ALL damaging spells and get darkvision.

So IS the loss in spells per level worth either of these options?

I'm not a fan of crossblooded. Even with Expanded Arcana and human favoured bonus there are going to be spells you want that you can't have. A little bit of extra damage for that is not worth it.

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:

I think you need to toss up awesome damage vs damn good damage+ daze

Using Aelryinth's build vs mine at 15th you get his 20d6+40 (110) firesnake (in any element)
In a 5th level slot and enemy gets to retaliate (if he lives) Vs
Save or Daze Sorc's empowerd Intensified dazing 22d6 (66) fireball +3 rounds of enemy does nothing from a 5th level slot at a higher DC.

Btw- his build only gets to spont metamagic that 1 spell.
Mr sorc can do it to any spell.

Don't get me wrong. I like Sorcerers a lot.

But...why is your save DC higher with a 3rd level spell than an Admixture Wizard's with a 5th level spell? Presumably, he's taking feats to boost his DCs...Spell Focus(Evocation) at least, and possibly GSF, and Fire Snake is a 5th level spell.

By the way, I agree on Dazing Spell being awesome sauce. I'd work it into an Admixture Wizard build.

I also prefer the build with Magical Lineage (Fireball) instead of Fire Snake, but then our group generally only plays until 13th to 15th level. It seems a waste to nerf myself a bit for most of his career just so he can be deadlier in the last few play sessions. Plus, I like the range on Fireball, and the fact that I can spam it more since it's a lower level slot.

One other thing, at 15th level, a Sorcerer 1 / Admixture Wizard 14 gets an extra 7 points of damage with all evocation spells that deal hit point damage (admittedly, this is a minor point).

There's no reason he couldn't cast an Empowered, Intensified, and Dazing Fireball with a 5th level slot. He'd be doing (15d6+37)x 1.5 = 133 points of damage on average before the save. And he'd be dazing anyone that failed for 3 rounds.

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:
So IS the loss in spells per level worth either of these options?

It's not a loss of spells per level. It's a loss of spells known (which is much worse).

Since Sorcerers only get 1 spell known of their highest level when they get a new level of spells, your spell progression will be delayed an extra level. You won't get any 3rd level spells known until 7th level (although, you'll have slots you can use with metamagic).

That's why crossblooded sucks for Sorcerers. It's a viable option for level dippers, though, and the 1 level of Sorcerer actually gives you back the +2 Will save that you lost taking the archetype.

Liberty's Edge

Sorry, STR Ranger. I didn't catch that you'd gone with Arcane bloodline...explains the increase in save DC.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

BTW, that's not my build. It's a consensus build on a thread very similar to this one on how to build a great blasting sorceror using PF rules.

Key things here are...you are only going to be using one spell for blaster damage at any one time, so you want to maximize the power of that spell. Basically, Fire Snake is as good a spell as you are going to get for damage, its flexible, powerful, and controllable.

You can still add Metamagic. If Dazing is so important, tack it on. Or get a 3/day uses Metamagic Rod. Remember that 'spontaneous casting' means a full round action to cast your mighty dazing spell...which is gonna get fubar'd regularly unless your DM is a total dummy. If I saw a spellcaster taking a hellaciously long time to cast a spell, I know I'd disrupt it...which means that Dazing a combat spell becomes the enemy's choice on whether it wants to affect him.

Also, isn't it a Fort save, which is most monster's best save?

I'm not going to overtly defend the build, but based on meta multipliers and the like Fire Snake shifted to any desired element looks like your best blasting spell.

Now, If you're playing 3.5 and can get the Force Missile Mage class and some of the 3.5 metas, well, the gloves start really coming off. Especially if your DM is wonderful enough to allow Arcane Thesis.

===Aelryinth


Heymitch wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

I think you need to toss up awesome damage vs damn good damage+ daze

Using Aelryinth's build vs mine at 15th you get his 20d6+40 (110) firesnake (in any element)
In a 5th level slot and enemy gets to retaliate (if he lives) Vs
Save or Daze Sorc's empowerd Intensified dazing 22d6 (66) fireball +3 rounds of enemy does nothing from a 5th level slot at a higher DC.

Btw- his build only gets to spont metamagic that 1 spell.
Mr sorc can do it to any spell.

Don't get me wrong. I like Sorcerers a lot.

But...why is your save DC higher with a 3rd level spell than an Admixture Wizard's with a 5th level spell?

There's no reason he couldn't cast an Empowered, Intensified, and Dazing Fireball with a 5th level slot. He'd be doing (15d6+37)x 1.5 = 133 points of damage on average before the save. And he'd be dazing anyone that failed for 3 rounds.

]

First question. In my example Arcane.blooded.sorcerers get a free +1DC on metamagiced spells. So a Magic Lineage Intensified fireball uses a 3rd level slot but has a 4th level DC.

And again at 15th that bloodline gets +2DC on a school of his choosing.

So a Spell perfection Magical Lineage, Intensified, Empowerd, Dazing Fireball is cast with a 8th level slot but counts as a 11th level spell (normally add +1 bloodline arcana, +1spell focus, +2School power. Spell perfection DOUBLES these fixed bonuses)

Second point your wizard example would still cast said fireball in an 8th level slot.
3(normal slot)+1(intensify)+2(Empower)+3(Dazing)-1(MagicalLineage)=8 level slot.
But his DC would be lower because he doesn't get.+3.DC from his class abilities. Which spell perfection won't double so his DC is heaps less.


Btw thanks for the spells known.reminder. Crossblooded Does suck for a Sorc.


Aelryinth wrote:

BTW, that's not my build. It's a consensus build on a thread very similar to this one on how to build a great blasting sorceror using PF rules.

Key things here are...you are only going to be using one spell for blaster damage at any one time, so you want to maximize the power of that spell. Basically, Fire Snake is as good a spell as you are going to get for damage, its flexible, powerful, and controllable.

You can still add Metamagic. If Dazing is so important, tack it on. Or get a 3/day uses Metamagic Rod. Remember that 'spontaneous casting' means a full round action to cast your mighty dazing spell...which is gonna get fubar'd regularly unless your DM is a total dummy. If I saw a spellcaster taking a hellaciously long time to cast a spell, I know I'd disrupt it...which means that Dazing a combat spell becomes the enemy's choice on whether it wants to affect him.

Also, isn't it a Fort save, which is most monster's best save?

I'm not going to overtly defend the build, but based on meta multipliers and the like Fire Snake shifted to any desired element looks like your best blasting spell.

Now, If you're playing 3.5 and can get the Force Missile Mage class and some of the 3.5 metas, well, the gloves start really coming off. Especially if your DM is wonderful enough to allow Arcane Thesis.

===Aelryinth

Dazing spell uses the spells.normal save which on evocation is rREFLEX...which is the weak save on most enemies......if the spell doesn't allow a save then dazing is will.

Also the Arcane bloodline gets.a few.free fast metamagics.a day based on level.


dotted

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:

So a Spell perfection Magical Lineage, Intensified, Empowerd, Dazing Fireball is cast with a 8th level slot but counts as a 11th level spell (normally add +1 bloodline arcana, +1spell focus, +2School power. Spell perfection DOUBLES these fixed bonuses)

Second point your wizard example would still cast said fireball in an 8th level slot.
3(normal slot)+1(intensify)+2(Empower)+3(Dazing)-1(MagicalLineage)=8 level slot.
But his DC would be lower because he doesn't get.+3.DC from his class abilities. Which spell perfection won't double so his DC is heaps less.

Spell Perfection won't double bonuses from Bloodline Arcana or from Bloodline Powers (such as Arcane's School Power).

It specifically says that it only doubles bonuses from feats.

Spell Perfection wrote:
In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Also, the Wizard was 15th level with Spell Perfection, so he gets Intensify free from Magical Lineage and Dazing free from Spell Perfection. So, he can cast an Intensified, Empowered, Dazing fireball in a 5th level slot.


Heymitch wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

It specifically says that it only doubles bonuses from feats.

Spell Perfection wrote:
In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
Also, the Wizard was 15th level with Spell Perfection, so he gets Intensify free from Magical Lineage and Dazing free from Spell Perfection. So, he can cast an Intensified, Empowered, Dazing fireball in a 5th level slot.

Good Catch on spell perfection. In that case the sorcerer's dc is only +3 better (not +6).

Don't forget the sorcerer uses that same.5th level slot.for his fireball.


Fire mages

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:


First question. In my example Arcane.blooded.sorcerers get a free +1DC on metamagiced spells. So a Magic Lineage Intensified fireball uses a 3rd level slot but has a 4th level DC.

"Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell's DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat."

- d20pfsrd

The metamagic feat must increase the level to add the +1 DC.


Sweet so use Empower instead. ;)


Have you looked into the fire elemental school for wizards?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Half-orc cross-blooded orc/red dragon sorc. Feel the burn.


Liongold wrote:
as subject reads... in yalls opinions which is the better fire elemental blaster. im teatering back and forth.

If you play a Fire Sorcerer just take all your spells from NON fire elemental spells. You can change them for free INTO fire on the fly with your bloodline power. Melf's Flaming Arrow anyone?

If 3.5 material is allowed, take one level of the 'Chosen of Kord' PrC and all your fire spells, while retaining their fire descriptor, turn into 'Holy Fire' and ignore any and all fire resistance or immunity. Very nice for those who want to blast and very fun to see the reaction on a fire immune creatures face as it feels burning for the first time in it's life.

Dark Archive

Charlie Bell wrote:
Half-orc cross-blooded orc/red dragon sorc. Feel the burn.

Enjoy not knowing fireball until level 7!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

That's not as bad as you make out. Scorching Ray is generally a better blasting spell then fireball until you are 10th level or so, because you can Meta the Scorching Ray to do more dmg. And AoE's are much less important now then they were in the past...generally you want to stack as much damage on the biggest enemy (ies) as possible, not spread it out among a bunch.

i.e at level 7 he can be throwing an Empowered Scorching Ray for 12d6+24. He's not going to want to throw a 7d6+14 fireball.

==Aelryinth

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