| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Ok, here are my quandries. I looked, but was unable to find the answers.
Page 548-549 "The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item...The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet."
Belt of Giant Strength; CL 8 (DC 13)
Requires Craft Wonderous Item, Bull's Strength.
I don't have Bull's Strength as a spell. The DC to create increases by +5 to 18. Fairly simple. A fourth level wizard could make the check with good reliability.
My concerns revolve around special prerequisites. Boots of Elvenkind require the creator must be an elf. Is that another +5 for not meeting the prerequisite or does not being an elf stop the crafting?
What about weapons and armor? Page 550 states "Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor." Weapons are the same.
Can a crafter ignore meeting this special prerequisite by simply adding a +5 to the craft DC?
I don't know. By RAW, it looks that way. I dont' know if I'd allow it to be that simple. Maybe adding a +5 per 3 cls behind would be closer. CL 10 can make a +3 sword; caster wants to make a +5 sword, the DC increases by +10.
Also, I'm unsure about the "If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met." line. A + 2 speed sword has a CL requirement of CL 6 for the +2 and Cl 9 for speed because speed is a +3 bonus. The caster would need to be CL 9 to create, correct?
it's a flat +5 to the DC for every requirement you fail to meet, even if the requirement scales like weapon bonuses do.
boots of elvenkind created by a human, +5 DC
lacking the requisite 5 ranks in acrobatics to make said boots +5dc
lacking the minimum caster level to make the boots +5dc
Technically, a level 5 wizard with craft magic arms and armor could
by taking +5 to the DC for lacking the caster level
and +5 for lacking access to the greater magic weapon spell
Craft a +5 Weapon with a DC30 spellcraft check and 50 days of work
if the wizard blows 2 feats on buffing spellcraft as an elf and starts with a 20 int
they can get
+5 INT
+8 Ranks
+5 Feat
+2 Elf
allowing them the ability to take 10 and successfully craft a +5 Weapon. at 5th level.
20+10 = 30 against DC30.
20 sides on d20, average is 10.5, rounding down makes 10. +20 bonus = 55% chance of making a +5 sword at 5th level
but i don't believe the rules actually specifiy which prerequisites you are allowed to ignore. nor do i beleive they specifiy which ones you aren't.
i heavily dislike the level cap on potions and wands.
what about the potion of true ressurection?
for millenia
stories have been written about special elixirs that can bring back the dead to the realm of the living.
what about the potion of polymorph?
stories have been told about elixirs that change one's form.
You missed a prerequisite you won't be able to get around. Where is a 5th lvl character getting the gold to craft a +5 weapon?... Unless the weapon is the only thing he owns cuz he hocked all his other stuff to afford it... And got the party to loan him all there gold too.
Wealth by level (lvl 5): 10,500 Gp
Cost to craft +5 weapon: 25,000 Gp - not including MW and weapon base price
I see what you are saying, but that isn't what I was asking. Perhaps I should have prefaced my initial question with "barring the required gold piece required to craft items...."
by saying caster level is not a requirement, you are allowing the crafting of a +5 sword by a 5th level elven wizard, with an easier spellcraft DC.
i find nothing wrong with a 5th level wizard crafting a +5 weapon.
the character still would have to find a source to justify where they got the funds.
maybe the 5th level wizard was an NPC who got a commission from a much higher level PC to craft the item for them. but gold is the only prerequisite you cannot bypass. i admit a PC 5th level wizard could not aquire the gold to do this without severe monty haul. the 15th level fighter would gladly fork over the cost to have this NPC craft his weapon for him. the low int/cha fighter knows not the difference between an apprentice and an archmage. especially when you rarely have a community involving an npc much higher than 5th level.
i find nothing wrong with the item creation feats giving discounts upon character creation either. you are selling your feat slots for cash.
the 5th level wizard crafting a +5 weapon hurts my immersion less than the reclusive metropolis of level 40 archmagi who sit there crafting for anyone with enough coin. the reason is because the wizard isn't powerful enough to dominate the world on his own and still needs to ask for help. the reclusive metropolis wouldn't make much sense, especially when all those level 40 archmagi would either try to dominate the known world, or there would be a whole lot of infighting among the metropolis and it would be a metropolis no more.
The rules are fubar.
-The limit on magic items was added by the devs, based on a distinction between something they went out of their way to call a prerequisite, and something that's on the line that says prerequisites in the items description.
-The cloak of elven kind and other wondrous items are
about the only clear of example of when you can definitely skip a prerequisite.
The rules are fubar.
-The limit on magic items was added by the devs, based on a distinction between something they went out of their way to call a prerequisite, and something that's on the line that says prerequisites in the items description.
-The cloak of elven kind and other wondrous items are
about the only clear of example of when you can definitely skip a prerequisite.
Fubar?
by saying caster level is not a requirement, you are allowing the crafting of a +5 sword by a 5th level elven wizard, with an easier spellcraft DC.Caster level is not a requirement, but that does not mean a 5th level character can make a +5 sword if he has the gold and time.
Creating magic armor has the same special prerequisite. These are unavoidable prerequisites, just like the item creation feat itself. Nobody can make a magic wand without the Craft Wand feat (or something that lets you use the feat, like an Arcane Bond wand). You cannot get around these prerequisites. The "prerequisites" that are listed in the item entry are all passable through an increased DC check +5. The CL is not listed in the prerequisites section of any item (at least, that I can recall). The CL is only tied to the DC to craft and the properties of the item (resisting spells and such).
Additionally, an Elf gets the +2 bonus to Spellcraft only when identifying magic items.
Sure, he can make a +1 Brilliant Energy sword (+1 and +4, effectively +5), but he can't make a +2 sword until he's 6th level.
Where does it say this?
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Where does it say this?Well, it says in the Creating Magic Weapons section that this is a special prerequisite. The general magic item creation rules say that you can substitute a prerequisite of an item by increasing the DC by 5, but this isn't an item. It's the whole class of magic weapons (and armor). Specific versus general. Magic weapons and armors are specifically requiring your level to be three times the enhancement bonus to make a weapon or armor of that enhancement bonus. Generally speaking, however, everything listed in the weapon/armor property or magic item's description as a "prerequisite" can be bypassed through increasing the DC by 5.
Gotta say, reading the RAW, you could be wrong.
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. Magic armor or a magic shield must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any armor or shield special abilities.
Caster level being 3*enhancement bonus is a prerequisite in the description, so how can it not be bypassed by the +5 to the DC? Just like lacking a necessary spell or skill, not having it just makes it harder, yes?
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Caster level being 3*enhancement bonus is a prerequisite in the description, so how can it not be bypassed by the +5 to the DC? Just like lacking a necessary spell or skill, not having it just makes it harder, yes?Except, of course, that it's not in the item's description. It's in the magic weapon and magic armor item creation section descriptions, which is a section, and not in any item's description. By the RAW, it is not something that can be bypassed.
But then, it isn't a requirement according to RAW if it isn't in the description. ::shrug::
It is defined as "special" without having "special" being defined.
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It IS a requirement by RAW because it's a part of the magic weapon and magic armor creation sections. That's clear. I think the whole point of them saying it's a "special" requirement is so that people won't think you can bypass it at all with an increased DC.But then, it isn't a requirement according to RAW if it isn't in the description. ::shrug::
It is defined as "special" without having "special" being defined.
What about Master Craftsman, I think the feat is....
Just to add to the muddy waters - personally I like to read RAW even more restrictive; mostly because it makes more sense to me. From RAW the following is true:
1. All prerequisites need to be met.
2. Prerequisites may be met by somebody else (not the crafter).
3. Prerequisites not met (by the crafter) increase the craft DC by +5
All this I take to mean that it is not possible to simply replace the unknown "Bull's Strength" spell with a +5 to the DC. However, you can have a friend or paid caster available to cast the spell for you. This increases the DC by 5; but you can still craft the item that way.
The beauty of this reading of the rules is that its not readily possible to craft arbitrary items simply by concentrating hard enough. You need to find the necessary resources in some form or other.
Just to add to the muddy waters - personally I like to read RAW even more restrictive; mostly because it makes more sense to me. From RAW the following is true:
1. All prerequisites need to be met.
2. Prerequisites may be met by somebody else (not the crafter).
3. Prerequisites not met (by the crafter) increase the craft DC by +5All this I take to mean that it is not possible to simply replace the unknown "Bull's Strength" spell with a +5 to the DC. However, you can have a friend or paid caster available to cast the spell for you. This increases the DC by 5; but you can still craft the item that way.
The beauty of this reading of the rules is that its not readily possible to craft arbitrary items simply by concentrating hard enough. You need to find the necessary resources in some form or other.
But then you aren't following the RAW; you are adding constraints outside of the rules as you see fit. By RAW, the bolded sentence is incorrect. As written, it is possible. If a friend helps, you do not suffer the +5 DC, because you have all the required components.
In the craft magical arms and armor sections on page 550-551 it states in both fields that, "Creating a magic armor [weapon] has a special prerequisite:." The RAW classifies it as a prerequisite.
On page 551, under creating potions, it states "The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion(or know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires." This is not listed as a special prerequisite. A cleric cannot make a potion of shield, unless it is a domain spell, by adding a +5 dc for missing prerequisite because knowing the spell is not listed anywhere as a prerequisite.
On page 551, under creating potions, it states "The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion(or know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires." This is not listed as a special prerequisite. A cleric cannot make a potion of shield, unless it is a domain spell, by adding a +5 dc for missing prerequisite because knowing the spell is not listed anywhere as a prerequisite.I didn't quote the second sentence, earlier, because we weren't discussing potions/scrolls/wands. However, do not forget that it is still explicitly covered in the magic item creation section in the RAW. You may not have to provide the spells personally, but a spell-trigger or spell-completion item cannot be created without the spell prerequisites.
We still aren't discussing potions/scrolls/wands. I held up the wording in crafting potions as an example of specific word choices. You are 100% correct about spell completion/trigger items.
I'm trying to come up with a clever analogy, but it is too early.
My point is that by RAW any prerequisite, excluding actually having to have the feat, can be traded for a +5 DC if the creater does not meet meet that prerequisite. The fact that the CLx3 for arms and armor bonus is listed as a prerequisite mean that the rule applies.
Wording is largly important in everything; especially in rules.
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Just to add to the muddy waters - personally I like to read RAW even more restrictive; mostly because it makes more sense to me. From RAW the following is true:
1. All prerequisites need to be met.
2. Prerequisites may be met by somebody else (not the crafter).
3. Prerequisites not met (by the crafter) increase the craft DC by +5All this I take to mean that it is not possible to simply replace the unknown "Bull's Strength" spell with a +5 to the DC. However, you can have a friend or paid caster available to cast the spell for you. This increases the DC by 5; but you can still craft the item that way.
The beauty of this reading of the rules is that its not readily possible to craft arbitrary items simply by concentrating hard enough. You need to find the necessary resources in some form or other.
I agree with Lorekeeper on this one.
Bold is mine
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
The prerequisites much be met, by someone. If the caster can not meet them then you take a +5 to the DC, for each one not met, to create the item. For Spell-trigger and spell-completion it would be clearer if you change the "you" in the last sentence to "the caster".
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It is defined as "special" without having "special" being defined.
WhooWhaaa?!?!?! Are you serious about following this line of argument?
Items that are NOT armor and weapons used to have the Caster Level requirement. It was not written in the item stat block, it was written in the "Creating Magic Items" section, but it was still written and a rule. It was removed during a rules update.
Armor and weapons still have a "special" requirement. Special meaning "Above and Beyond" the normal rules. It is still a rule and as the rule says, this one cannot be bypassed.
My point is that by RAW any prerequisite, excluding actually having to have the feat, can be traded for a +5 DC if the creater does not meet meet that prerequisite. The fact that the CLx3 for arms and armor bonus is listed as a prerequisite mean that the rule applies.
Wording is largly important in everything; especially in rules.
You mean like the wording that stated that the 3*CL rule cannot be avoided? Seems pretty clear.
Just to add to the muddy waters - personally I like to read RAW even more restrictive; mostly because it makes more sense to me. From RAW the following is true:
1. All prerequisites need to be met.
2. Prerequisites may be met by somebody else (not the crafter).
3. Prerequisites not met (by the crafter) increase the craft DC by +5All this I take to mean that it is not possible to simply replace the unknown "Bull's Strength" spell with a +5 to the DC. However, you can have a friend or paid caster available to cast the spell for you. This increases the DC by 5; but you can still craft the item that way.
The beauty of this reading of the rules is that its not readily possible to craft arbitrary items simply by concentrating hard enough. You need to find the necessary resources in some form or other.
But then you aren't following the RAW; you are adding constraints outside of the rules as you see fit. By RAW, the bolded sentence is incorrect. As written, it is possible. If a friend helps, you do not suffer the +5 DC, because you have all the required components.
In the craft magical arms and armor sections on page 550-551 it states in both fields that, "Creating a magic armor [weapon] has a special prerequisite:." The RAW classifies it as a prerequisite.
No, actually we both have valid (yet incompatible) interpretations of RAW. Note this sentence from the rules:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created.
Your assumption is that adding +5 to the DC allows you to meet the prerequisite. By my reading this isn't true. In my reading it is a penalty for not meeting the prerequisites yourself. But as the rules specify, it is legal for somebody else to help you to meet the prerequisites (provided you pay the +5 penalty).
By RAW both readings are valid - what I like about my reading is that it does not allow a level 3 crafter to create any item by concentrating hard enough.
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You guys do realize that the crafting rules are a mess right? That a thorough examination of the wording is not going to solve anything? The crafting rules are an incomplete, confusing and contradictory jumble. This section (much like the rest of the core book) is largely made up of 3.5 rules copied and pasted and mixed with Pathfinder changes.
I mean there are still references to XP expenditures when enchanting items in the rules as written. If that kind of thing made it past the editors into the rulebook, what do you think are the chances that there are other errors of logic etc?
Trying to determine the RAW will only lead to madness! Madness I say!
:)
The best thing to do for now is houserule them to fit your game and hope that future errata clears up some of the confusion.
Cheers
Just to add to the muddy waters - personally I like to read RAW even more restrictive; mostly because it makes more sense to me. From RAW the following is true:
1. All prerequisites need to be met.
2. Prerequisites may be met by somebody else (not the crafter).
3. Prerequisites not met (by the crafter) increase the craft DC by +5All this I take to mean that it is not possible to simply replace the unknown "Bull's Strength" spell with a +5 to the DC. However, you can have a friend or paid caster available to cast the spell for you. This increases the DC by 5; but you can still craft the item that way.
The beauty of this reading of the rules is that its not readily possible to craft arbitrary items simply by concentrating hard enough. You need to find the necessary resources in some form or other.
But then you aren't following the RAW; you are adding constraints outside of the rules as you see fit. By RAW, the bolded sentence is incorrect. As written, it is possible. If a friend helps, you do not suffer the +5 DC, because you have all the required components.
In the craft magical arms and armor sections on page 550-551 it states in both fields that, "Creating a magic armor [weapon] has a special prerequisite:." The RAW classifies it as a prerequisite.
No, actually we both have valid (yet incompatible) interpretations of RAW. Note this sentence from the rules:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created.Your assumption is that adding +5 to the DC allows you to meet the prerequisite. By my reading this isn't true. In my reading it is a penalty for not meeting the prerequisites yourself. But as the rules specify, it is legal for somebody else to help you to meet the prerequisites (provided you pay the +5 penalty).
By RAW both readings are valid - what I like about my reading is that it does not allow a...
Lorekeeper,
Your interpretation, is how I read it as well. I have to "shift gears" in order to see it from the arguing perspective.I can see how one can perceive the sentence differently, but it just seems awkwardly written for this interpretation.
And just cuz I am curious about responces, why did developers put CL outside of "requirements" if it is a requirement?
Greg
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You guys do realize that the crafting rules are a mess right? That a thorough examination of the wording is not going to solve anything? The crafting rules are an incomplete, confusing and contradictory jumble. This section (much like the rest of the core book) is largely made up of 3.5 rules copied and pasted and mixed with Pathfinder changes.
I mean there are still references to XP expenditures when enchanting items in the rules as written. If that kind of thing made it past the editors into the rulebook, what do you think are the chances that there are other errors of logic etc?
Trying to determine the RAW will only lead to madness! Madness I say!
:)
The best thing to do for now is houserule them to fit your game and hope that some future errata clears up some of the confusion.
Cheers
Trying to determine the RAW will only lead to madness! Madness I say!
Madness? THIS ... IS ... PATHFINDER! *kick*
First, it is most important to keep in mind that this whole paragraph relates only to the prerequisites listed in the item descriptions. The magic armor and magic weapon special prerequisites are not listed in any item's description. These special prerequisites are listed in the magic armor and magic weapon item creation sections. As such, the special prerequisites listed there are wholly unrelated to this paragraph, and the increased DC bypass is not eligible to bypass the special prerequisite for magic armor and magic weapon creation since said special prerequisites is never listed in any item's description as a prerequisite. Hence why it's a special prerequisite and not a general prerequisite.
I can get behind this reasoning. I'm a generally stubborn person but I will admit it when I see where I went wrong. Allowing for the +5 DC for not meeting the requirements listed in the items description is different from a requirement listed in the general description for crafting said kind of item. I see that now. Thanks.
Now, what about Bracers of Armor. Requirements in items descriptions states creator must have a CL of 2x armor bonus. Not meeting that requirement would incur the added +5 DC by this logic.
Lorekeeper, I can see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree with the needing someone else to help to complete the item.
I'm all for limiting the power of items a character can craft, but doing so in that way adds to the gp cost of the items and feat cost.
Say the 8th level party monk saved the money and wants the 8th level party wizard to make him a Monk's Robes. The CL is 10, costs 13k gp, and requires Righteous Might or Transformation. DC is 15; 20 because the crafter doesn't know the right spell. Easy to make for an 8th level Wizard.
By your rules, he would need to seek out a mage or cleric with either spell and have them help him craft for 13 days, and still incur the +5 to the DC. Well, Righteous Might is a 5th level cleric spell and Transformation is a 6th level wizard spell. Spell casting services are CLxSLx10. 450g for the cleric to cast the spell once, 660g for the wizard. A single casting takes about 6 seconds of the casters day, not 8 hours. A cleric could charge a minimum of 5850gp for helping the wizard crafter, and that is just for casting the spell 13 times.
In my opinion, that is punishing characters for taking item creation feats and willing to take the risk of a higher DC for a better item sooner.
You guys do realize that the crafting rules are a mess right? That a thorough examination of the wording is not going to solve anything? The crafting rules are an incomplete, confusing and contradictory jumble. This section (much like the rest of the core book) is largely made up of 3.5 rules copied and pasted and mixed with Pathfinder changes.
I mean there are still references to XP expenditures when enchanting items in the rules as written. If that kind of thing made it past the editors into the rulebook, what do you think are the chances that there are other errors of logic etc?
Trying to determine the RAW will only lead to madness! Madness I say!
:)The best thing to do for now is houserule them to fit your game and hope that some future errata clears up some of the confusion.
Cheers
+1 agree with you there.
@LoreKeeper
I can understand the way you read the rules (that's the same way i understood them the 2nd and 5th i read them) but i think that this is a WAY too strict reading and makes the crafting feats less usefull (especially for spontaneous casters who have personal access only to a small number of spells known).
I also think that the (enchantement bonus*3 OR special ability's caster level if higher)=caster level for weapons and armor is mandatory and cannot be skipped with a +5 DC.
First, it is most important to keep in mind that this whole paragraph relates only to the prerequisites listed in the item descriptions. The magic armor and magic weapon special prerequisites are not listed in any item's description. These special prerequisites are listed in the magic armor and magic weapon item creation sections. As such, the special prerequisites listed there are wholly unrelated to this paragraph, and the increased DC bypass is not eligible to bypass the special prerequisite for magic armor and magic weapon creation since said special prerequisites is never listed in any item's description as a prerequisite. Hence why it's a special prerequisite and not a general prerequisite.
Exactly. The paragraph does not address the special requirement for armor or weapons, and as such the special requirement must be met. It's actually one of the few things that is pretty clear as far as magical item crafting is concerned.
Now, what about Bracers of Armor. Requirements in items descriptions states creator must have a CL of 2x armor bonus. Not meeting that requirement would incur the added +5 DC by this logic.
By some interpretations of the RAW, this requirement could be bypassed. That said, I don't believe I would allow it in my game. Which brings me to the ultimate answer on this topic.
The magical item crafting rules are vague. We all obviously agree on this. It's simply a case where GMs are forced to interpret the rules as best fits their style of play. We don't need official clarification on this. Personally, I agree with LoreKeeper's interpretation, and in the games I run I always require the prerequisites to be met in some way. Though sometimes I do take artistic license as to how those prerequisites can be achieved: don't know barkskin? Well do you have any bark from the tree of a living dryad? That'll work.
Ultimately, LoreKeeper's interpretation isn't a houserule; it is a valid interpretation of the RAW. That said, so are many of the other methods that have been named. Simply choose the interpretation that sits best with you, or come up with your own, and run with it. Don't let anyone tell you you're doing things incorrectly. You're the GM. You determine what rules are right and which ones are wrong.
What I think we need here is a little errata/Dev ruling with 2 different terms. My suggestions:
Creation Requirement- You MUST have this to make this item, no exceptions.
Creation Prerequisite- You usually need this to make the item, for each prerequisite you do not meet (either yourself or through someone helping you), increase the final Craft DC by +5.
Well I certainly hope that the CL is just a guideline because pearl of power 1 is a Cl 17 item and apparatus of the crab is CL 19.
What I think we need here is a little errata/Dev ruling with 2 different terms.
Why? No clarification is needed; run it in the manner that makes sense to you.
For all we know these rules were written in this manner on purpose. It wouldn't be the first time.
They state very clearly which things cannot be bypassed with a +5 check to the DC. They go out of their way to specify which things cannot be bypassed. These are they:
The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
CL can be bypassed with a +5 check, and no amount of reinterpretation of the word "special" is going to change that. BUT the high CL items make the check much harder, and that +5 becomes a lot more important.
A normal level 5 guy has a 8 spellcraft and probably something like +4 at most from his int bonus, so that's a +12 on the roll. The target number for crafting a +5 weapon for that guy is:
5+CL+5 = 25
And you CAN'T take 10 on the check, because a check failure is bad. A normal level 5 wizard has these possibilities when trying to craft a +5 weapon:
7 or lower: ITEM IS CURSED
8 through 12: REAGENTS ARE WASTED
13+: success!
If a level 5 dude really wants to spend 25,000 gp, which is approximately half the wealth of a 5 person party, on a one in three shot at getting a +5 sword, and an equal chance at getting stuck with a cursed weapon, then he's welcome to it. No party I've ever been in would spend their earnings so fruitlessly.
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I'm glad you have all the answers... and that by implication that the rest of us are apparently too slow to figure these things out...
Of course I would point out that taking 10 does not specify that one cannot do so if there is a penalty for failure. Taking 20 does specifically state this.
And if the rules are so clearly written as to contain all the answers without need for serious interpretation, adjudication or house ruling, can someone tell me exactly how many XP I have to spend to craft a magical double headed weapon?
Thanks
;)
Well I certainly hope that the CL is just a guideline because pearl of power 1 is a Cl 17 item and apparatus of the crab is CL 19.
Again, from what i read.
CL should be the Caster level of the item. But if compared to the magic items, it does not follow a logic order. And some ever looked like they were just assigned, regardless of the rules.
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The magic rules are just a mess.
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CL = Should be the minimum level needed to cast the Highest level spell that was used in the creation of the item. ( Magic Armor & Weapons also require the CL be three times the enchantment bonus === And i think this should also apply to Wondrous items or i will wondrous items to make weapons and armor to get around the rules ).
But this also lead into the question of what is a Enchantment Bonus for a weapon or armor == + to hit/damage or + total weapon bonus for all effects. Which the rules are unclear on and muddled, depend on which rules your reading for DR, Enchantment bonus limits, or Item creation DC checks.
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2 cents in 3... 2.... 1.....
This rule is dumb. I have ignored it in my campaigns. You can't make something... then you can't make it.
Can I get a +1!
CL can be bypassed with a +5 check, and no amount of reinterpretation of the word "special" is going to change that. BUT the high CL items make the check much harder, and that +5 becomes a lot more important.
True the Pearl of Power example left me with another question.
Is that +5 DC for level of differences in power.
IF you need to be CL bonus x 3 = Bonus is +3 = Total CL needed is 9
So if you are a 3rd level caster is that
+5 DC total extra
or
+10 DC total extra ( +5 DC to become caster level 6, +5 DC to become caster level 9 ), which is needed to make a +3 item that has the requirement of cl = bonus x 3.
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The way i read the pearl of power errant = The above example would be +10 DC.
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FAQ[/url]]What is the caster level required to create a pearl of power?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
(SKR, 8/18/10)
–Sean K Reynolds (08/18/10)
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And you CAN'T take 10 on the check, because a check failure is bad.
You can take 10, you can't take 20.
And as i have said in another thread:Here's the rule for taking 10
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
Emphasis mine.
Now crafting (either magical or mundane) doesn't seem as immediate danger or being distracted.
Sure. Zero, Crafting no longer costs XP.
Can you show me exactly where in the core rules it states that?
;)
Where did you see anything in pathfinder cost XP?
No magic item creation cost, no spell xp cost (i think that spells that needed XP cost in 3.5 they just have a material cost now).
You cannot even permanently lose levels, a restoration spell and a week per gets them back.