Combat maneuvers as attacks of opportunity


Rules Questions


I'm pretty sure I've heard it said that you can perform trip, disarm, and sunder maneuvers as attacks of opportunity - however, does doing so provoke an attack of opportunity if you don't have the appropriate "Improved" feat?

Say, for example, someone without Improved Disarm attempts to disarm me. I get an attack of opportunity against him - and I decide to disarm him before he disarms me, using the disarm maneuver in place of my AoO. Do I provoke for doing that?


Yes.


Infinite provocation! Yes! That could be fun if your players are into it. I don't know the rule off the top of my head, but if you have an eye for initiative counts (ie, you won't forget) you should be fine.

This thread will go several directions:
1. "It's like a duel in a movie! Hopefully your players roll quickly!"
2. "No. It's not like that."
3. "No. It's not like that, because of this rule [cited]."
4. "Yes, it's like that.
5. "Yes, it's like that, because of this rule [cited]."

and then

6. "[Discussion of verisimilitude in table-top RPG's]"


'Rixx wrote:

I'm pretty sure I've heard it said that you can perform trip, disarm, and sunder maneuvers as attacks of opportunity - however, does doing so provoke an attack of opportunity if you don't have the appropriate "Improved" feat?

Say, for example, someone without Improved Disarm attempts to disarm me. I get an attack of opportunity against him - and I decide to disarm him before he disarms me, using the disarm maneuver in place of my AoO. Do I provoke for doing that?

If the combat maneuver in question can be used in place of an attack then yet, but if it requires a standard action then no. I do believe all the ones you listed qualify though.

Liberty's Edge

This can also occur (though at diminishing likely-hoods) with the Overflank feat. I've seen a creature get rended by about 8 attacks triggered by one original attack action thanks to combat reflexes and overflank being possessed by most/all of a party (2 had a 15-20 crit, the other 2 had a 19-20 crit). Apparently doing ~2.5x the creature's health in nonlethal will still gib the crap out of it ;)

But yeah, the sort-of chain-back-and-forth of those types of AoOs is kinda weird, but totally rules legal. I usually think of it more like "the guy with better reflexes won" than actual counter-counter-counter-counter-countering. This reasoning doesn't really work with overflank, though, so I think of that as synchronizing the attacks so that they "pinch" the person to cause maximum damage.


Outflank


Yes.
I think this was brought up during the Playtest, where it was posited that you can`t take an AoO-provoking action as your AoO, but that restriction never made it into the final...

Anyhow, the Maneuver that doesn`t belong on that list is Sunder.
Per RAW it is an Attack Action, which is a type of Standard Action.
Monks can substitute Sunders for Unarmed Strikes as part of a Flurry of Blows, but that is only when Full Attacking and not for AoO`s.


Important to note that it doesn't turn into an endless loop because of the restrictions on the number of AoO's a character can make.

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