Making it hard on us...


RPG Superstar™ 2010 General Discussion

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

This year is interesting.

In year 1 we had a handful of items we judges knew right off were making the top 32 cut.

Last year, the overall quality went up but it was easier to reject items becuase they tended to have a flaw. I often said, "reject for X reason, and it's too bad, too." But there was a good mechanical reason to reject it.

This year there are not (or so far there arent) a big group of obvious front runners. Yes, there are some real good ones. But no Migrus (love it or hate it, it grabbed us and we knew it was top 32), etc. At least so far.

So what does that mean? It will be harder, and likely more subjective, for us judges this year. You never get perfect items. If you guys were designing flawlessly we would have to wonder if you were already workign as a designer. That is just real rare. Maybe Jason and Neil and a few others came close to being that good out of the chute. So there wont be 32 flawless items. That means we have a big batch of very competent yet slightly flawed items. Those are going to be hard for us to choose between.

That said, thank you.

I would much rather sort through a bunch of good items than toss out 950 and be choosing 32 from the top 50 that are good. I'd rather toss 800 and be choosing 32 from the remaining 200. (by the way, these numbers are not actual numbers, they are for illustrative purposes only and no I wont say how many entries there were this year or any year, that is up to Paizo not me).

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Just curious, but are you saying that mechanical execution was better last year, or are you using 'flaw' in a much fuzzier sense?


We didn't make it hard on you. You guys made it hard on us! You swooped down from the heavens above and swiped the greatest of our storytellers and artists, leaving us mere mortals to try and reinvent the color wheel (and iambic pentameter).

I say brown should be opposite green, but the jolly flying fat man and his reindeer say red and green. Pffft.

On the bright side, you left an infinite number of monkeys and an infinite number of typewriters. I'm sure something truly grand will come of that.


Clark Peterson wrote:

This year is interesting.

In year 1 we had a handful of items we judges knew right off were making the top 32 cut.

Last year, the overall quality went up but it was easier to reject items becuase they tended to have a flaw. I often said, "reject for X reason, and it's too bad, too." But there was a good mechanical reason to reject it.

This year there are not (or so far there arent) a big group of obvious front runners. Yes, there are some real good ones. But no Migrus (love it or hate it, it grabbed us and we knew it was top 32), etc. At least so far.

So what does that mean? It will be harder, and likely more subjective, for us judges this year. You never get perfect items. If you guys were designing flawlessly we would have to wonder if you were already workign as a designer. That is just real rare. Maybe Jason and Neil and a few others came close to being that good out of the chute. So there wont be 32 flawless items. That means we have a big batch of very competent yet slightly flawed items. Those are going to be hard for us to choose between.

That said, thank you.

I would much rather sort through a bunch of good items than toss out 950 and be choosing 32 from the top 50 that are good. I'd rather toss 800 and be choosing 32 from the remaining 200. (by the way, these numbers are not actual numbers, they are for illustrative purposes only and no I wont say how many entries there were this year or any year, that is up to Paizo not me).

You keep banning the best contestants from retrying! No more will we get the chance to read submissions by Clinton Boomer, or to ponder the latest far-realms insanity from Trevor Gulliver. No more shall be seen the pulse-raising lava-sled chases of Christine Schneider, or the maleficent schemes of Gulga Cench. (Well actually Gulga Cench or his stirge may turn up to critique things at random anyway, I guess...)

Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's winners or top eights should be allowed in, so that we can all gooble and oopah over the sheer awesome unleashed in the resulting clash of the titans.

PS
Can't you do one for charity? RPGSuperstar where all profits from the module will be given to a reliable UN fund for child poverty, famine relief or something similar? Invite industry authors to participate too?

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

The point of the competition is supposedly to discover new talent. If you let successful contestants from previous competitions win again, what are you discovering?

"Yep, Boomer's still a crazy, awesome bastard."

That's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy reading more entries by him, but I see why the rules exist.


Plus, the greats of years past ARE giving us new material. Just not for free anymore...

I, for one, can't wait for Coliseum Morpheuon to come out ..

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Patrick Curtin wrote:

Plus, the greats of years past ARE giving us new material. Just not for free anymore...

I, for one, can't wait for Coliseum Morpheuon to come out ..

Will there be a way to simply buy the .pdf once the patronage project is 'over', without actually buying patronage?

I'm not very familiar with the whole 'patronage' thing. Some of their older projects I can't seem to find at all; others don't seem to be available for less than $60, which is more than I'm willing to pay for a .pdf.

Coliseum Morpheuon looks pretty badass, though.


Hydro wrote:
Coliseum Morpheuon looks pretty badass, though.

It does, and without getting into specifics is full of Boomer gonzoriffic schtuff. As for whether you can buy it after it's made without patronage ... I THINK so. I'd go to their forums and ask though, because I am not sure. The patronage is a way to give input to a project as part of the price. You get to vote on different angles and foes and such.


The Heroes of the Jade Oath patronage is still open. So far, the Beta proof (on PDF) is out, and so far, looking fantastic! Hard to say when the Omega will be out, but it's heading in the right direction.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Clark Peterson wrote:
That said, thank you.

Assuming my item is one that is making the process harder for you, you're welcome. ;-)


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

You keep banning the best contestants from retrying! No more will we get the chance to read submissions by Clinton Boomer, or to ponder the latest far-realms insanity from Trevor Gulliver. No more shall be seen the pulse-raising lava-sled chases of Christine Schneider, or the maleficent schemes of Gulga Cench. (Well actually Gulga Cench or his stirge may turn up to critique things at random anyway, I guess...)

Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Umm, Charles, buy Paizo?


Clark Peterson wrote:

This year is interesting.

In year 1 we had a handful of items we judges knew right off were making the top 32 cut.

Last year, the overall quality went up but it was easier to reject items becuase they tended to have a flaw. I often said, "reject for X reason, and it's too bad, too." But there was a good mechanical reason to reject it.

will those of us who get rejected be able to get any sort of feedback on what knocked us out of the round?

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Mr. Quick wrote:
will those of us who get rejected be able to get any sort of feedback on what knocked us out of the round?

You're new here, aren't you? ;)

Legendary Games, Necromancer Games

Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Oh man, what an idea. Survivor occasionally has a Survivor All-Stars season with the best of prior seasons. Or a good versus evil, such as the upcoming season (I'm a huge Survivor fan).

Not a bad idea.

Maybe we have a contest for a top 16 which could then compete against 16 contestants from prior years that are fan favorites. Hmmmm.

I'll have to talk to Lisa. Or just wait till she sees it here on the boards.

Paizo Employee CEO

Clark Peterson wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Oh man, what an idea. Survivor occasionally has a Survivor All-Stars season with the best of prior seasons. Or a good versus evil, such as the upcoming season (I'm a huge Survivor fan).

Not a bad idea.

Maybe we have a contest for a top 16 which could then compete against 16 contestants from prior years that are fan favorites. Hmmmm.

I'll have to talk to Lisa. Or just wait till she sees it here on the boards.

Interesting idea. But I think we might need to have four years or so worth of contestants before we could pull it off properly. I'll put this idea into my thinking cap and let it swirl around a little bit. :)

-Lisa

PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)


Lisa Stevens wrote:
PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)

I'd be careful with that if I were you. Matt is a self-proclaimed Ogre. He might just eat the other contestants.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Lisa Stevens wrote:


PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)

But we'd have our dice right? RIGHT?!

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

If you went with an RPG All-Stars type of contest, I'd be in. But, in my opinion, I also think you guys should put something like that on for those who make the Top 8 but fall out before reaching the Top 4. Since they're ineligible to participate in future RPG Superstar contests, that would be a cool way to bring them back. Of course, you'd need a full 32 (or so I'm assuming), so I guess you'd still need the full Top 8 from at least 4 years of the contest. And that's assuming everyone was available to participate (though I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't clear their schedule to do so). If someone couldn't, well, what I'd really like to see is some of the judges (especially Clark!) join the fray. ;-)

So...bottom line...great idea! Me likey!

--Neil

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

You could really go nuts with the challenges, too.

The final goal doesn't even have to be an adventure (though it would be fine if it were); you could build it around some other aspect of game design.

Scarab Sages

It would be real cool to tie it in with some kind of charity contribution or action.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Yea, that's always really cool.

Not that I hate Paizo (or their freelancers) for making money, mind you.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Clark Peterson wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Oh man, what an idea. Survivor occasionally has a Survivor All-Stars season with the best of prior seasons. Or a good versus evil, such as the upcoming season (I'm a huge Survivor fan).

Not a bad idea.

Maybe we have a contest for a top 16 which could then compete against 16 contestants from prior years that are fan favorites. Hmmmm.

I'll have to talk to Lisa. Or just wait till she sees it here on the boards.

Interesting idea. But I think we might need to have four years or so worth of contestants before we could pull it off properly. I'll put this idea into my thinking cap and let it swirl around a little bit. :)

-Lisa

PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)

You could give them food and water - they'd still starve - they'd be too busy gaming to eat.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre

Tarren Dei wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:


PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)
But we'd have our dice right? RIGHT?!

No, you would have to carve dice from coconut shells.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Lord Fyre wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:


PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)
But we'd have our dice right? RIGHT?!
No, you would have to carve dice from coconut shells.

They'd invent and engine that ran on d2's and just flip sand dollars.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Hydro wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:


PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)
But we'd have our dice right? RIGHT?!
No, you would have to carve dice from coconut shells.
They'd invent and engine that ran on d2's and just flip sand dollars.

Perhaps there's a way to make d10s from starfish ... some sort of extremely rare much loved species of starfish.

The Exchange

Of course, you would have to dig up all these people. Some have moved on, I suppose. Some never grew up, thankfully.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

Zuxius wrote:
Of course, you would have to dig up all these people.

Do we even know where they're buried?

The Exchange

Tarren Dei wrote:
Zuxius wrote:
Of course, you would have to dig up all these people.
Do we even know where they're buried?

That's one way to eliminate the competition.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Zuxius wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Do we even know where they're buried?
That's one way to eliminate the competition.

::hides a shovel behind his back while standing behind Trevor::

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 aka Tarren Dei

NSpicer wrote:
Zuxius wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
Do we even know where they're buried?
That's one way to eliminate the competition.
::hides a shovel behind his back while standing behind Trevor::

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.


Lisa Stevens wrote:
Clark Peterson wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Oh man, what an idea. Survivor occasionally has a Survivor All-Stars season with the best of prior seasons. Or a good versus evil, such as the upcoming season (I'm a huge Survivor fan).

Not a bad idea.

Maybe we have a contest for a top 16 which could then compete against 16 contestants from prior years that are fan favorites. Hmmmm.

I'll have to talk to Lisa. Or just wait till she sees it here on the boards.

Interesting idea. But I think we might need to have four years or so worth of contestants before we could pull it off properly. I'll put this idea into my thinking cap and let it swirl around a little bit. :)

-Lisa

PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)

Hurrah!

PS:
What about the Isle of Lundy in the Bristol Channel? There is limited accommodation there I believe, in former lighthouse buildings, etc.

Marathon Voter Season 9

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Clark Peterson wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Confound it Clark, Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's...

Oh man, what an idea. Survivor occasionally has a Survivor All-Stars season with the best of prior seasons. Or a good versus evil, such as the upcoming season (I'm a huge Survivor fan).

Not a bad idea.

Maybe we have a contest for a top 16 which could then compete against 16 contestants from prior years that are fan favorites. Hmmmm.

I'll have to talk to Lisa. Or just wait till she sees it here on the boards.

Interesting idea. But I think we might need to have four years or so worth of contestants before we could pull it off properly. I'll put this idea into my thinking cap and let it swirl around a little bit. :)

-Lisa

PS: I am a huge Survivor fan also. Perhaps we could take the previous years' top 16s and put them on an island with no food or water! :)

Hurrah!

PS:
What about the Isle of Lundy in the Bristol Channel? There is limited accommodation there I believe, in former lighthouse buildings, etc.

Lundy, Fastnet, Irish Sea...

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Tarren Dei wrote:

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.

LOL!

You've just given me a new idea for the "Design a Monster" round.

Thank you. :-P

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's winners or top eights should be allowed in...

I have to wonder if that contest would be as successful as an ordinary Superstar contest. If the average member of the voting public isn't given the opportunity to enter the contest, would they really have any vested interest in sticking around to see who wins? And without the hook of an opportunity to break into the industry, how are you going to generate word of mouth surrounding the contest?


Clark Peterson wrote:
Mr. Quick wrote:
will those of us who get rejected be able to get any sort of feedback on what knocked us out of the round?
You're new here, aren't you? ;)

well yeah. I should think that would have been obvious.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's winners or top eights should be allowed in...
I have to wonder if that contest would be as successful as an ordinary Superstar contest. If the average member of the voting public isn't given the opportunity to enter the contest, would they really have any vested interest in sticking around to see who wins? And without the hook of an opportunity to break into the industry, how are you going to generate word of mouth surrounding the contest?

(much edited)

Umm, the voting public still get to participate... they get to VOTE! (And to pontificate, for example, upon whether Aelfric Dreamslayer is a villain or just a misguided hero.)
If being allowed to compete in a competition is necessary to hold public interest, then why do so many people go to baseball games, tune in to American Idol or watch the Olympics?

Edit:
My deepest apologies if you feel that an Aelfric reference is harsh, but I wanted to make a point with an example which you would be familiar with that there are ways for the public to feel involved without their even having made Round 1.


And for the record the Round 3 Aelfric was much more villainous.


Epic Meepo wrote:
I have to wonder if that contest would be as successful as an ordinary Superstar contest. If the average member of the voting public isn't given the opportunity to enter the contest, would they really have any vested interest in sticking around to see who wins? And without the hook of an opportunity to break into the industry, how are you going to generate word of mouth surrounding the contest?

Being in a competition itself is what draws many folks I'm sure. Without that, I'd have to agree with your implications. Word of mouth would be minimal and it'd really just end up being a game show for forumites who already were in the loop from years past.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka Steven T. Helt

Epic Meepo wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Paizo should have a SUPERSTAR OF SUPERSTARS contest, where only previous year's winners or top eights should be allowed in...
I have to wonder if that contest would be as successful as an ordinary Superstar contest. If the average member of the voting public isn't given the opportunity to enter the contest, would they really have any vested interest in sticking around to see who wins? And without the hook of an opportunity to break into the industry, how are you going to generate word of mouth surrounding the contest?

I really like the idea. It should happen just after I finally make a top 8. Meaning top 32, first. : }

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 aka Lord Fyre

NSpicer wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.

LOL!

You've just given me a new idea for the "Design a Monster" round.

Thank you. :-P

Careful, that idea could end up being crappy.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Lord Fyre wrote:
NSpicer wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.

LOL!

You've just given me a new idea for the "Design a Monster" round.

Thank you. :-P

Careful, that idea could end up being crappy.

Yeah, he might be better off MOOOOOOving along.

(Though, Gulga probably has a use or six for a cow patty, no?)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 aka Gamer Girrl

Mike Speck wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
NSpicer wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.

LOL!

You've just given me a new idea for the "Design a Monster" round.

Thank you. :-P

Careful, that idea could end up being crappy.

Yeah, he might be better off MOOOOOOving along.

(Though, Gulga probably has a use or six for a cow patty, no?)

Yes, but Lord Gulga prefers that you call it Cow Pate :)~

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
My deepest apologies if you feel that an Aelfric reference is harsh...

I must be misunderstanding something, because I'm not sure why you're apologizing. I love it when people are reading, critiquing, and referencing my stuff. I'm going to need both readers and critics if I'm going to hone my skills.


Thread Hijack

Hyrdo said:

Quote:
Will there be a way to simply buy the .pdf once the (Coliseum Morpheuon) patronage project is 'over', without actually buying patronage?

Yes the cost will be $30.00, the exact same price as bronze patronage

Boomer rocks that's why we hired him to do the project

End Hijack

I vote for Varinor, oh wait I can't vote yet, damn!

Steve Russell
Rite Publishing

Scarab Sages

Clark, your initial post heartens me greatly...

...and points out that I still have 15 long, long days to wait.

;)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 aka Hydro

Patrick Walsh wrote:

Clark, your initial post heartens me greatly...

...and points out that I still have 15 long, long days to wait.

;)

14. ;)

I'm new to this; is there a scheduled time on the 19th for the announcement? Midnight? Whenever?

Paizo Employee Developer , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Hydro wrote:
I'm new to this; is there a scheduled time on the 19th for the announcement? Midnight? Whenever?

I'm fairly certain all of the events (announcements, deadlines, etc) are at 2:00PM PST on the specified date.

Scarab Sages

Hydro wrote:
Patrick Walsh wrote:

Clark, your initial post heartens me greatly...

...and points out that I still have 15 long, long days to wait.

;)

14. ;)

oops! You're right - I keep thinking today is Monday as I took a vacation day yesterday.

Hydro wrote:


I'm new to this; is there a scheduled time on the 19th for the announcement? Midnight? Whenever?

Usually 2:00 PM Pacific time, if I recall correctly.

Liberty's Edge

Lord Fyre wrote:
NSpicer wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:

:: drops a cow patty ::

*SPLORT*

Shovel that, Spicer.

LOL!

You've just given me a new idea for the "Design a Monster" round.

Thank you. :-P

Careful, that idea could end up being crappy.

Oh man, what a load!

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