Monks and Druids? Good or Bad?

Is a Qinggong Monk-10/(not sure what arch)Druid-10 a pretty good idea overall? They seem to synergize fairly well, especially if one is focused on Improved Unarmed Strike damage and one can acquire Monk's Robe + Monastic Legend, Shaping Focus, and Natural Spell. The AC would be all around pretty high. Everything seems to fit pretty well with one another... Discuss?

That Colossal damage would be insane by itself, and even moreso with combined feats and whatnot. I'm curious as to what it would actually be.

As a Medium monk, at level 20 effectively(robes and monastic), damage would be 2d10 per hit. After wild shaping into a Huge creature, and then using Strong Jaw, what would that 2d10 escalate to(I think that leaves it at Colossal)?

You'll want Feral Combat Training to make your wildshapes work with monk abilities.

Are you just starting at 20? Because the level order is going to get pretty important to keep you from having really bad spikes in your power level.

Is that a necessity for using my IUS damage and strikes? I don't plan on using natural attacks at all honestly.

Are you just starting at 20? Because the level order is going to get pretty important to keep you from having really bad spikes in your power level.

I'm just looking at the longterm right now. I'm sure I can rearrange it to climb smoothly.

Well, Strong Jaw doesn't apply to Unarmed Strikes.

Well, Strong Jaw doesn't apply to Unarmed Strikes.

That's news to me, what are you basing this on?

Oh and in reply to the original query, a colossal 20th level monk does 12d8 damage (as per the improved natural attack tables).

Did you know that if you don't flurry, you can just tack on all your natural attacks (as secondary natural attacks, -5 to hit 1/2 str damage)?

So if you pick a non flurrying monk archetype (Master of Many Styles, say), you can basically make those extra attacks in combination with your IUS.

prototype00

Strong Jaw clearly says it only enhances natural attacks; it's got no text making it do anything else, such as enhancing unarmed attacks.

Strong Jaw clearly says it only enhances natural attacks; it's got no text making it do anything else, such as enhancing unarmed attacks.

That's fine, it doesn't have to thanks to this:

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

prototype00

Strong Jaw clearly says it only enhances natural attacks; it's got no text making it do anything else, such as enhancing unarmed attacks.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Emphasis mine.

Enjoy your Strong Jaw.

Ah, right, that might work.

The question is: compared to what?

Take a look at monk 2/druid 18. 9th level spells are really good to have; and you've gotten +3 to saves, evasion, and wisdom to AC from monk, plus two feats.

Or, take a look at monk 20. Giant saving throws and SR really provide an amazing defense.

...SR really provide an amazing defense.

It depends on if you house-rule SR. RAW, SR cannot be lowered except as a standard action, even for harmless spells. Congratulations, you can't get hit by enemy spell casters, but you also can't be healed or buffed.

Did you know that if you don't flurry, you can just tack on all your natural attacks (as secondary natural attacks, -5 to hit 1/2 str damage)?

prototype00

Not true. According to the rules for Natural attacks:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

(Emphasis mine).

This means that, If you get 3 Natural attacks (Claw/Claw/Bite), you can substitute an unarmed strike for each of the claws (If you can normally get that many attacks), but all other natural attacks that round are at -5. E.g. you could have Unarmed/Claw/Bite (With Claw and Bite at -5 and 1/2 Str), you could have Unarmed/Unarmed/Bite (With Bite at -5).

What you could not have is {Attack sequence} Plus {Natural attacks at -5 and 1/2 Str}.

There may be feats that change this, I don't know of any; Not even Feral Combat Training changes this basic ruling. Otherwise you would get an unbalancing number of attacks.

prototype00 wrote:

Did you know that if you don't flurry, you can just tack on all your natural attacks (as secondary natural attacks, -5 to hit 1/2 str damage)?

prototype00

Not true. According to the rules for Natural attacks:

Quote:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.

(Emphasis mine).

This means that, If you get 3 Natural attacks (Claw/Claw/Bite), you can substitute an unarmed strike for each of the claws (If you can normally get that many attacks), but all other natural attacks that round are at -5. E.g. you could have Unarmed/Claw/Bite (With Claw and Bite at -5 and 1/2 Str), you could have Unarmed/Unarmed/Bite (With Bite at -5).

What you could not have is {Attack sequence} Plus {Natural attacks at -5 and 1/2 Str}.

There may be feats that change this, I don't know of any; Not even Feral Combat Training changes this basic ruling. Otherwise you would get an unbalancing number of attacks.

Why do you limit unarmed strike to the hand that makes the claw attacks when it specifically says that unarmed strikes can be made with

monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full.

What is to stop the wild-shaped monk from using his feet for his unarmed strike and leaving his hands and his mouth free to make claw and bite attacks?

A sword must be used in the hand, but an unarmed strike has no such limitations.

prototype00

Aaaahhhh Ptototype00. I knew youd chime in. You're the one that inspired my curiousity in this build :)

For my Vanaras, this druid investment would actually make sense to boot, since he's from the wild and all.

@Rudolf, the question being whether or not the two classes meld well together. It seems the meld incredibly well, but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something detrimental. 20 Monk is nice, but poopoo damage and team support aside from disarming or tripping. Honestly combined or seperate both of these classes have fantastic defensive abilities. SR is meh... my DM ruled it as Harmless will bypass if wanted, by otherwise I'd have to take a couple turns to drop it and bring it back up. If it's more along a 10/10 or 12/8 build the monk gets the majority of his flurry attacks +some and the ravenous fist damage of being huge + strong jaw. It all just seems to good to be true :P

@Prototype00, it makes sense to me dude. Headbutt ftw! Plus if I change into a Huge Ape that clearly has fists... not that I'm trying to go all DBZ Oozaru or anything...