Yes, I did. :(
For some reason I thought that she hadn't cast it because she couldn't warn me but now I see that the Gm made her 'hold' the casting until I got out of the way.
GM: would Elriel be able to attack as stated and then move 5' to the southwest?
You didn't step already, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to step afterward, unless there's something blocking the way.
Wow this is a massive encounter. I kinda like it, though of course that's easy to say sitting halfway down the stairs.
Hopefully Rukzha's slumber works against the demon. Though if it does, he'll have to change his action or it'll wake up. Either attack the tiefling or coup de grace the demon to avoid it being woken up, though that would provoke AoO.
This would be a great moment to use the blinding shield, but it would require Kai (and every enemy in that room) to make a reflex save. I wouldn't want to do it if Kai doesn't like it, though. Thoughts?
This would be a great moment to use the blinding shield, but it would require Kai (and every other enemy in that room) to make a reflex save. I wouldn't want to do it if Kai doesn't like it, though. Thoughts?
Do it!
If Kai doesn't save, it will great RPing. :)
Since Brevon is a paladin I could see him not using it to not risk inconviencing his friends. However I also think it would be cool in this situation. I would have not minded at all if I was in his shoes. I'm not him though, not everyone likes friendly fire for the greater good.
@Elriel: If Rukzha's slumber is successful, what would you prefer to do with your action? Keep attacking the sleeping Skir, attack the tiefling or coup de grace?
Since Brevon is a paladin I could see him not using it to not risk inconviencing his friends. However I also think it would be cool in this situation. I would have not minded at all if I was in his shoes. I'm not him though, not everyone likes friendly fire for the greater good.
@Elriel: If Rukzha's slumber is successful, what would you prefer to do with your action? Keep attacking the sleeping Skir, attack the tiefling or coup de grace?
coup de grace on the 'horny devil' :)
I'm totally down for being blinded. I've got a decently high reflex save, I'll make it more than 50% of the time.
@Elriel: I don't know how far you've planned things or if you have any undecided feats, but have you seen the trait Treerazer's Bane? It seems very fitting for your character as he's from Kyonin that the trait is linked to. You could get that trait and another trait in addition if you picked up additional traits.
@Elriel: I don't know how far you've planned things or if you have any undecided feats, but have you seen the trait Treerazer's Bane? It seems very fitting for your character as he's from Kyonin that the trait is linked to. You could get that trait and another trait in addition if you picked up additional traits.
Thanks for the heads up.
I did tell you that I am relying on you for 'mythical stuff', right? :)
No, I hadn't seen that but it seems a bit overpowered for a trait, no?
What do you think Toothy?
The best traits are a bit more than half a feat. In most games the creatures listed here are going to be way less than 50% of the enemies. Even in this game there are enemies it doesn't encompass, like the cultists and tieflings. The best comparison to a feat is Weapon Specialization. Is this more than 50% than that? Perhaps, perhaps not, but in most games it'll be quite a bit worse. Personally I don't consider Weapon Specialization all that great though, Power Attack or Piranha Strike is usually way better. This trait is certainly a lot worse than the Faith's Favored trait Rukzha has.
Short answer: No, I don't think this is overpowered.
If you want help with looking for options for leveling, just ask and I'll see what I can do, though it would be helpful if I had some idea of what aspects you want to improve.
@Elriel:Did you forget favored enemy bonus?[/ooc]
Oops, yes I did. I got so excited by that natural 18 that I forgot.
@Toothy, please +2 to to hit and damage to my last arrow shot.
Thanks!
Sorry I didn't respond to this right away, the forums ate my post I guess. T_T
Just maintaining grapple, so I'm pretty sure I don't get that crit. Was just hoping.
That sounds too metagame for my taste. In the first round, Elriel steps inside, sees 'helldeer', and his first reaction is to raise his blade and attack. He is too shocked at the moment and would not maneuver around it.
Now Fabian would know that this 'peryton' got clobbered pretty good and that his chances of acrobatics are pretty decent so he would probably go for it.
But it's Elriel who is inside and I always remind myself that in all the games I play.
Yes, I know it's not optimal but it's more fun for me that way.
Sorry it if bothers you. :)
Game on!
PS: I did ask Kai to move around so I can flank next round.
Elriel also knows that it's much easier for him to inflict damage to the enemies if they are flanked. Of course you are free to ignore that in the heat of the moment. Though I imagine that for Elriel it would be more of a kind of intuitive feeling rather than an actual conscious thought.
It doesn't bother me that you play things in a way you feel is more appropriate for your character.
I'm trying to do my best to avoid metagame stuff affect my decision.
@Toothy: Does Rukzha know that especially powerful enemies are immune to her slumber? Does she know that flying creatures are often dexterous? What about demons often being though?
Against an enemy you can't pierce the DR off (which Elriel knows), sneak attack is a lot better (3 times better).
Math: The twf attacks does an average of 8.5 damage each, which is reduced to 3.5 after DR for 7 total. Meanwhile sneak attack is doing an average of 15.5 + 2 bleed which is reduced to 10.5 +2 after DR. That's not even counting the reduced hit chance for twf. This thing has at least 19 AC (since Arrika's attack missed) meaning Elriel needs to roll 15 (at best) or higher to hit, while for flanking and not twf he needs to only roll 11. That's another -44.44% expected damage(or -50% for AC 20). Total expected value is approximately 5/20*7=1.75 for twf and 9/20*12,5=5.625 for sneak flanking making that option about three times as effective. Of course next round you would get both TWF and flank.
I usually have my character mention it to my allies when I notice DR.
Weirdly when I'm really tired after work it's much easier/more relaxing for me to do calculations like these instead of detailed creative work...
Fighting from low ground against an enemy with great dex and NA like this makes it quite hard to hit.
Yeah, you've definitely used healing hex on Kai already.
Sorry for being so slow to post. I'll be better on it today and tomorrow! I was intending to move into flanking for Elriel though, but I guess that's what I get for being too slow.
Against an enemy you can't pierce the DR off (which Elriel knows), sneak attack is a lot better (3 times better)...
I'll look at the numbers later but I agree that if I need to make one attack that deals lots of damage vs two attacks where the damage is split, it makes sense to attack with sneak attack.
Sneak attack will soon allow me to deal a debilitating conditions, which is another plus. And my ranger style ability will allow me to get improved feint (even if I'm a little dumb), which will allow me potentially deal sneak attack even if I don't flank.
Question is what do I get next: rogue 4th level and debilitating condition or ranger 2nd level and improved feint...
I'd say rogue and Debilitating Condition - we've got enough melees that it's usually not terribly hard for you to get flanking and thus sneak attack, and I've consciously been playing Kelumarion as your flanking buddy whenever possible. And Debilitating Condition is one hell of a thing - I've played up to level 12 with an unchained rogue before, and that big of debuffs make a lot of difference.
I'd say rogue and Debilitating Condition - we've got enough melees that it's usually not terribly hard for you to get flanking and thus sneak attack, and I've consciously been playing Kelumarion as your flanking buddy whenever possible. And Debilitating Condition is one hell of a thing - I've played up to level 12 with an unchained rogue before, and that big of debuffs make a lot of difference.
Yeah, I'm leaning that way, especially now with three potential flanking buddies. :)
I agree that Rogue does seem better.
Are you sure about improved feint? You'll still need greater feint and a way to feint as either a swift action or two weapon feint in order to use it at a full attack. Eventually Arrika could get greater invisibility (though I don't like that they moved access to it from 7th level as a wizard/normal summoner to 10th as an unchained summoner).
The 1st tier mythic ability Titan's Bane from Trickster could eventually let you hit against flatfooted enemies, at least some of the time. Reduce Person or even Mythic Reduce Person would increase the enemies this would work against. Though I'm unsure if we'll ever have the spare mythic power to cast Mythic Reduce Person since the pool is so low here. Of course first someone have to learn Reduce Person anyway (it's on both of our spell lists though). Kinda sad I didn't learn it initially because I want to try out this combination now. There are a few spells I haven't used at all and having that available would be much nicer:
Titan's Bane (Ex)
You can move through the space of any creature two or more size categories larger than you without provoking attacks of opportunity, and you can share such a creature's space. When sharing a larger opponent's space, you gain cover against all melee and ranged attacks it makes, and it is considered flat-footed for the purposes of any melee or ranged attacks you make against it.
At 3rd tier you can cast quickened greater invisibility but spending a mythic power:
Vanishing Move (Su)
When you wish to not be seen, you aren't. As a swift action, you can make yourself invisible until the end of your turn. This effect ends if you do anything other than move. If you expend one use of mythic power when using this ability, it instead acts as greater invisibility using double your tier as your caster level.
If you want something to look forward to, there is the following 6th tier ability. It works with the Titan's Bane combo or with greater invisibility:
Slayer's Cyclone (Ex)
When you spot a breach in an enemy's defenses, you make attacks with a lethal blend of speed and precision. As a full-round action, you can make a single melee attack at your highest base attack bonus. If you hit and the target is flat-footed, deal damage as normal. You can then move and make another attack. You may continue this process until you miss, attack an opponent that isn't flat-footed, or attack an opponent you already hit this round. You can't move more than double your speed in this way in 1 round.
I'm normally not a huge fan of dipping, but one level of Urban Bloodrager with the celestial bloodline does look kinda good. Though at that point you are just taking a bunch of small dips to gain power... The bloodrage wouldn't feel off with Elriel's impulsiveness though.
The corner directly W of Kai's current position would leave the most of us able to attack. If he just goes through the door it'll block everyone else. Since they are flatfooted he won't provoke AoO.
Is Kai's HP correct? He really should have drunk a potion before coming here.
Kai's hp is indeed correct. He was hit by a cultist and by the peryton but did not healed.
Balls! This is why I should not post after my 'bad time'! Rukzha is again correct!
The effect is indeed just a darkness spell and thus reduces the light to dim-light, so none of you are blinded and Elriel is unaffected at all since he has low-light vision. Kai and Brevon still have 20% miss chance in their attacks though.
Sorry for being the one to always pointing out things that might be wrong. Your word is law anyway. If you decide to change the difficulty of various rolls so they fail or succed or want to make certain effects more or less powerful that's all up to you. Do you want me to stop pointing out rules or things that might be a bit off?
I believe Rukzha does have line of sight to the fly in the doorway, is that correct?
@Rukzha: Not at all! I always want to play by the rules, avoiding 'GM fiat' as much as I can. I did forgot that darkness decreased only one level of illumination (probably thank to the name 'darkness'... it could be called 'less bright' instead). Whenever you find something weird, please let me know!
About your line of sight, it is a little tricky since it crosses a door, so I'm not sure you'd have a clear line. I'd prefer for you to move south of Arrika at least.
About the attack hitting Kai, you are correct again but I'll assume the other Aided Another instead of also attacking. These creatures are actually intelligent so it would make sense and also avoid a retcon.
I also enjoy having someone extremely rules-savvy at the table, especially one with the social grace to even ask such a question!
I have no problems with rules lawyers as long as they remember that sometimes rules are 'bent' to have more fun at the table. :)
I take it Elriel's 19 in acrobatics was not good enough to get in.
Can I 5-foot step directly north of Brevon?
Rules lawyering is trying to bend the rules the rules to your advantage or trying to coerce the GM into a favorable ruling for you. That's not what I'm trying to do at all.
I don't think you can normally 5 foot past a hard corner, but Toothy might allow it anyway. It won't put you in a flanking position anyway though. Another option could be to simply have Brevon move out of the way first, kinda like what happened with Irabeth. In this case it might be a cascade of movement though. First Kelumarion moves to flank with Kai, then Brevon moves and finally Elriel can 5 foot forward.
I have no problems with rules lawyers as long as they remember that sometimes rules are 'bent' to have more fun at the table. :)
I take it Elriel's 19 in acrobatics was not good enough to get in.
Can I 5-foot step directly north of Brevon?
Yeah, you needed a 20 to get past it! Rukzha is correct, you can't 5-foot-step on a hard corner like this (even if it is a door). Delaying is also an option.
@Rukzha: They aren't resistant to sonic, they just saved... take a look again at the spell and you'll see that besides negating the daze, a successful save also reduces the damage by half (so he took 4 damage). Irabeth was north of Arrika and since she moves only 20ft, I decided not to double move her (drawing an AoO) and clamper the place for the 'real heroes'. On her next turn, she'll be able to step inside and attack.
*Facepalm* Save for half damage, right...
Aw damn, I should have blessed Elriel with luck. That looked like it would have been a critical blow if it had just hit.
Well, not even good strategies resist when you roll a '2'.
BTW, I wasn't sure if I incurred an AoO going where I went. I wanted to flank.
I would have gone the other way if an AoO was the result of my move to flank.
it doesn't matter now 'cause I missed.
Kelumarion also has Evasion.
After we had to travel for an operation for my son and a stressful day of aftermath where I've also been trying to catch up on work, I'm completely wasted. Hopefully I'll have more time to post tomorrow.
We should heal up Kai before proceeding. I could spend 15 min to prepare CLW or we can use potions/loh.
I assume Elriel has gotten his gear back at this point (after the prot evil ran out).
Whatever works better for you, Rukzha. I think maybe the spell could be more valuable than a potion, even if the potion is potentially more useful in a pinch.
The spell slot's probably more valuable, since it can be anything we possibly need where the potion's locked as a cure. And there's no sense in letting Kai die while we've got healing potions on hand. :P
There goes my last spell... I don't like the uncertainty the limitation on slumber brings with it. I can never know if it'll work. That uncertainty is really unfun. A suggestion: if I succed on the knowledge check, can I get to know if I can affect the enemy or not based on CR (mind affecting immunity is a separate thing).
Meant to include the following above:
My spells so far today has been quite lackluster. Mage Armor still hasn't done anything, command was irrelevant due to the arrow. Glitterdust only affected a couple very minor henchmen. Ear-piercing scream didn't succeed (though that's about the same as an attack missing for a martial) nor did blindness. Only web and Mage armor on Kai has been good. Hopefully this web bolt works.
Am I using my spells wrong? Should I prepare different ones?
I think you've got a pretty good suite of spells prepared - you've got stuff ready to go for a lot of different situations. It's just the nature of prepared magic (and of cooperative gameplay in general) that sometimes those spells don't end up being as spectacular as they could be, or you use them without knowing some particulars that would change your decision if you knew. You aren't doing anything wrong...it's just what ended up happening today.
Are skill unlocks available for non-rogues? I'm considering getting initimidate for Rukzha. Though if I'm doing that I kinda wish I didn't trade away the intimidating racial trait... And without neither nightmare weaver nor dazzling display nor any of the mass intimidate mythic abilities it won't be that effective...
Though panicking a demon lord is perhaps even more unrealistic than putting one to sleep?
@Rukzha: Regarding the slumber hex, I agree in telling you if it is too strong to be affected by the hex or not.
I'm suspicious to talk about spells because I almost never play offensive casters simply because there is never the certainty the they will work, unless I buff the saves too much and it becomes a bit boring... so I usually only use buffing/defensive spells.
I don't think your spells are bad... you were just unlucky (or the enemies were lucky). Another thing you could probably do is pick more single target spells. In a couple fights, the enemies weren't really powerful (like the vermleks and the tieflings), and the others would probably have killed them all without the aid of a limited resource as your spells are.
About the skill unlocks, sure! They are always available via feats to everyone. About your racial trait, you can retrain it if you want when you get some time.
I think the spell selection was fine and the game played out as it 'should'.
There will be times when Rukzha has that spell that is very useful but other times, she will be a support character.
Too bad Antagonize doesn't stop more than one attack (though it does potentially work great with a reach weapon against enemies without ranged attacks).
Action economy is often the killer for such things though. Spending a standard action simply to give -2 to attacks for the enemy will often not be worth it. It's kinda interesting if you combine the diplomacy mode with intimidate and evil eye, but even then you kinda need to step up the action economy to get anywhere. This fight as an example... The enemy is taking -5 to all attacks and it still hit 2/3 times!
This fight made me think of options to taunt the enemy, especially for Brevon with his great AC. Sadly pathfinder is not really built for that (at least paizo, as warder from pow can do this). I'm not sure if Antagonize is worth spending a feat on.
I don't think hierophant that Brevon is going for have much abilities to stop enemies from attacking, though I could be wrong. Guardian that Arrika's trait is linked to might however.
There is a spell that lets you taunt an enemy, Compel Hostility, but it only stops one attack per round and requires a will save and have to pierce SR. Arrika could use that to force the demons to attack Kelumarion. I think it might just be too many hoops to jump through though.
Why did you chose Hierophant Brevon? I thought that was more directed towards casters/channelers? Path for a paladin is quite interesting, Marshal, Hierophant, Champion and Guardian are all worth consideration. I must say I LOVE the idea of combining contingency channel with Beacon of Hope though, and as a Paladin you can still do that.
Rukzha gave back the cloak and ring to Elriel, which means Arrika still has the other cloak and ring.
I didn't think Toothy was locking us into the paths associated with our traits, but I could be wrong. I had hoped to go guardian.
I picked my trait because it is perfect for my backstory, which was written long before I knew id be running this ap :).
Well, you do lose out on a feat (the upgraded version of the trait) as well as some story stuff if you go with a different path I believe. Toothy did say way back in the original recruitment that he wanted everyone to have different traits/follow different paths.
Traits: Two traits, one being a Campaign trait. You can take a drawback for an additional trait but I'll have the final word if it is a fair trade or not. Regarding the Campaign Traits, in this AP they are more important and far more restrictive so I'd prefer to take PCs with different Campaign Traits.
The traits and the mythical path are two different things... My request for different traits rests mainly on the fact the in books 2-3 there are sidequests tied to each trait so making you to choose different traits would lead us to more RP.
The selection of mythic paths are a bit tied to the selection of traits since your trait increases in power if you select the appropriate path but you are not required to do so by all means.
@Elriel: You found no traps and can keep trying as much as you want or even taking 20... just remember that since the horn was sounded and you don't know what is on the other side, your enemy/enemies could be buffing themselves a lot!
Given time, Brevon can cast bless (at CL 1) just before we enter. Otherwise my only buff is smite evil, which I'll activate inside if needed
We could cast protection from evil on everyone, or even go as far as to cast invisibility. I'm not sure how many spells Arrika got left, but I guess magic fang is another option.