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It is clear that Psychic got the short end of the Remaster stick. For some reason with Impossible Magic they massively buffed Magus and Summoner well nerfing Psychic. Making amps count as a unique version of Spellshape was a HUGE mistake, making ti not compatible with Spellstrike was a good idea in theory BUT all you did was move Magus away to other classes to grant good focus spells.
Removing the 1 bonus focus point from the Archetype makes it go from being good to being one of the worst Multiclass Dedications, which are already pretty bad at the best of times. There are exceptions like Bard, Champion, Exemplar, Mystic (SF-2E), Runesmith, Soldier (SF-2E).
There was a joke I made, which I believe I saw on the fourms where the "Worst" Classes keep being worse and the "Good" Classes keep on winning and getting better. Thaumaturge didn't really need the slight buff, neither did Barbarian with Rage or the infamous Rogue buffs but Wizards, Alchemists and Psychic still feel pretty weak.
Anyone know what I mean?
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You can’t really unremaster the psychic to give them more of a unique shtick again without changing the way focus point recovery works for all the classes. I think the basic class needs to go through a post-remastering, where the remastered changes to the game play a bigger role in what makes the psychic the psychic. The class should probably just start with 3 focus points, since they have 3 amps they get out of the gate, and then, instead of getting more focus points at higher level, they should get ways to recharge them in combat. I think maybe if they get one back every time unleash psyche ends at level 6 (or at least making that an optional feat), that could go a long way to giving the class some uniqueness back. I also think Unleash should do what it does now, but also give an accuracy boost for amped cantrips, like a +1 status bonus to spellattack rolls and DCs). I don’t mind the changes to the archetype though.
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You can’t really unremaster the psychic to give them more of a unique shtick again without changing the way focus point recovery works for all the classes. I think the basic class needs to go through a post-remastering, where the remastered changes to the game play a bigger role in what makes the psychic the psychic. The class should probably just start with 3 focus points, since they have 3 amps they get out of the gate, and then, instead of getting more focus points at higher level, they should get ways to recharge them in combat. I think maybe if they get one back every time unleash psyche ends at level 6 (or at least making that an optional feat), that could go a long way to giving the class some uniqueness back. I also think Unleash should do what it does now, but also give an accuracy boost for amped cantrips, like a +1 status bonus to spellattack rolls and DCs). I don’t mind the changes to the archetype though.
While my dream Psychic Remaster has them completely redesigned from the ground up to be more like a Kineticist, as an at-will slot-less "caster", I think these proposals are a lot more achievable and would do a great deal for the Psychic. And I agree that giving them added ways to get Focus Points back mid-combat (ala Brain Drain and Strain Mind) is a great direction to go in.
Further incentivizing Unleash Psyche is also a good idea, though I think the fallout needs to be less punishing. It'd be better to have its own cooldown rather than a stipulation about not being Stupefied while actively causing the condition when the effect ends. Functionally it would accomplish the same goal, while making those "off" rounds feel less punishing. (I recognize that there are ways around this, like having a Sustain spell active during and after Unleash, but your DC does still take the hit even if you can bypass the Flat Check since you're not "Casting" the spell)
I also think the duration could use an improvement. Most encounters are pretty brief, but 2 rounds is still very short even when you can't do it turn 1. I'd suggest starting at 3 rounds, and each time their spellcasting proficiency increases (7th, 15th, 19th) add another round, so capping out at 6 rounds at 19th. Then get rid of Twin Psyche since it always felt like a feat-tax just to make what should be a core feature somewhat more worthwhile to use.
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It is clear that Psychic got the short end of the Remaster stick. For some reason with Impossible Magic they massively buffed Magus and Summoner well nerfing Psychic. Making amps count as a unique version of Spellshape was a HUGE mistake, making ti not compatible with Spellstrike was a good idea in theory BUT all you did was move Magus away to other classes to grant good focus spells.
While I agree Psychic definitely suffered from the Remaster (partly due to them forcing themselves to use the same book and formatting, partly because they just wanted to get it over with), the solution is definitely not moving backward.
And to the point about Amps becoming Spellshapes, they already couldn't be used in conjunction with a Spellshape anyway. The only difference is that now the order of operations involves using the Amp before casting the spell, not as part of the same action, which is what makes it no longer work with Spellstrike. It did cause some initial issues with Amp'ing certain spells into a Reaction or Free Action, but that was fixed in errata.
Here's the Legacy version to highlight that it was already, in effect, a Spellshape.
Amps are special thoughtforms that modify the properties of your psi cantrips. You can apply an amp only to a psi cantrip, which is called the amped cantrip. Applying an amp to a psi cantrip costs 1 Focus Point and is part of the actions needed to Cast the Spell. The singular focus required to amp a psi cantrip means that unless otherwise noted, you can apply only one amp to a given psi cantrip, and you can’t apply both an amp and a metamagic ability to a cantrip at the same time. If both an amp and the amped cantrip deal damage of the same type, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Feats with the amp trait provide different amps you can apply to psi cantrips in place of their normal amps. If an amp has its own effect, its level is the same as the amped cantrip’s.
Changes in design philosophy are also apparent across the years: comparing dark persona or violent unleash from the psychic to desperate revival from the necromancer (which is ally friendly bc of mastery of life and death) makes me think "man, cool flavor feats for casters have come a long way in ease-of-use and power"
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The psychic was a terrible class from the beginning with exactly one functional build (shatter mind spam). It would need to be redone from the ground up if you want to actually compete with the good classes.
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A Spellshape that costs a Focus point but no additional Actions and does not require a feat.
Thinking about Focus Points as encounter resources, and Necromancer getting one back from undoing the result of a previous use of a Focus Point. Note that the latter might just be my confused imagination making up things though.
But this made me think about having a Feat that allows you to get a Focus Point back by Dismissing the effect of a previous amp.
If OP, maybe this feat could be specific to a given amped cantrip, with the Special that you could take it again for a different amped cantrip.
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What if Psychic had all spells in repertoire as Signature spells?
Plus, like, 1 temporary Focus point each round of Unleash Psyche useable for Amps that expired at the end of that round?
Plus, like, only Stupified if you used those temporary FPs, and only to the value of the number of FPs that you used?
Sort of a "hot fix".
=)
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Unremaster is putting the toothpaste back in the tube. Everything psychic "lost" to other classes (a framing I think is a bad way to view things, but nonetheless) was a net benefit to the system.
Another pass as it as part of some kind of pathfinder 2e unchained would be welcome, however.
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Double Remaster Class List:
- Psychic
- Wizard
- InventorLet’s go!
I'd personally add investigator to this list. Make it a bit more unique and not 90% rogue and I'll be happy with it.
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No idea what or when Paizo will do with PF2e classes in SF2e; adding subclasses seems like an easy route, like how that added new PF2e heritages in Galactic Ancestries. But maybe more is possible to fix the classes themselves too. Anyway, just pointing out that if it doesn't happen in PF2e, there still might be a chance to fix them in SF2e.
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No idea what or when Paizo will do with PF2e classes in SF2e; adding subclasses seems like an easy route, like how that added new PF2e heritages in Galactic Ancestries. But maybe more is possible to fix the classes themselves too. Anyway, just pointing out that if it doesn't happen in PF2e, there still might be a chance to fix them in SF2e.
Adding more options to these classes isn't really a fix though. If anything, it only makes everything printed before a trap option.
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I'd personally add investigator to this list. Make it a bit more unique and not 90% rogue and I'll be happy with it.Double Remaster Class List:
- Psychic
- Wizard
- InventorLet’s go!
I was debating adding investigator to the list, but I wavered in that it might skate by on its current merits due to its unique features.
But sure, let’s throw it in as well.
We can call the book “Intelligence Reimagined”
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Adding more options to these classes isn't really a fix though. If anything, it only makes everything printed before a trap option.No idea what or when Paizo will do with PF2e classes in SF2e; adding subclasses seems like an easy route, like how that added new PF2e heritages in Galactic Ancestries. But maybe more is possible to fix the classes themselves too. Anyway, just pointing out that if it doesn't happen in PF2e, there still might be a chance to fix them in SF2e.
Exactly. The real fix needs to be an overhaul, not simply an option, "subclass", or Class Archetype that makes everything else obsolete and unappealing. Personally I hate the mentality of having a "right way" to build a class, and would discourage any design that really leans into that.
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I'd personally add investigator to this list. Make it a bit more unique and not 90% rogue and I'll be happy with it.Double Remaster Class List:
- Psychic
- Wizard
- InventorLet’s go!
I was debating adding investigator to the list, but I wavered in that it might skate by on its current merits due to its unique features.
But sure, let’s throw it in as well.
We can call the book “Intelligence Reimagined”
Or they could make it a Lost Omens book and call it "Rival Academies Two: Eccentric Boogaloo!"
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Sadly I don't see Paizo making a book to re-remaster 4 classes. Not for a while at least, and I personally would prefer for them to receive this treatment sooner than later. I could see them re-remaster one of them in each new book though. I could see investigator being a good couple to daredevil and slayer for next year's book, and assuming we change to one new class per year (which I think after daredevil and slayer its time to do that), inventor and psychic could be paired with a third class to represent "the perfection of the mortal mind" or something like that. Wizard is tricky because we got a ton of magic-themed books already.
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Two birds, one stone: remaster the psychic by making it a dual class with inventor.
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Heh. I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I agree with a lot of the criticism of the psychic remaster. The dedication probably needed a nerf, but the base class could use a serious buff. Most players could snag 75% of the interesting parts of the class with the dedications, and get more mileage out of an occult sorcerer.
With that being said...I play a psychic in my weekly game, and have a blast. He does not feel weak in play, but that is mostly because I try to run him intelligently and have optimized the heck out of him, which seems against the power parity most of the remaster is built around. Amped guidance and amped message alone are incredible. Turning an ally's miss into a hit, and enabling combat movement and strikes work great as a force multiplier on the team. The trifecta of containment, synesthesia and slow target the three saves, and feel awesome when you land them on a boss monster, especially right before their turn starts. The problem is all of this can be added on to an occult caster for four feats, which in a free archetype game can be a cheap resource.
I'll throw in my .02 and say that I enjoy the idea of leaning into a more mental/occult kineticist role, with all day powers leaning into a similar overflow mechanic the kineticist uses, maybe triggering off of focused / unfocused, instead of a gate being opened or closed. The framework is already there, really. One focus could be telekinesis (Distant Grasp), another future sight (The Infinite Eye), and so on. But that will probably need to be another class at this point.
Hopefully with the loosening of the design straightjacket with the magus and the necromancer, newer classes will be able to step into this niche.
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I think the contrast between the Dark Archive remaster and Impossible Magic book shows that the left hand at Paizo doesn't always know what the right hand is doing: both books were released under very different time and formatting constraints, such that the latter was given the time and the space to do things right while the former... well, wasn't, at least not when it came to the Psychic. There clearly was at least one priority when it came to reworking that class, and it wasn't making it stronger or substantially more fun to play.
On my side, I've homebrewed a full-scale Psychic rework that essentially combines Unleash Psyche with amping, powering up psi cantrips significantly while allowing them to benefit from spellshapes, but I also think the Psychic could have easily been improved even under the tight constraints of remastering an existing book. Just to list a few examples of changes that could've made it:
All of these would be easy to edit into the existing class as printed, including through errata, without disrupting the book's format. While I don't think these would necessarily solve all of the class's issues, the end result in my opinion would be a Psychic that would at least feel less constrained and smoother to play overall.
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Sadly I don't see Paizo making a book to re-remaster 4 classes. Not for a while at least, and I personally would prefer for them to receive this treatment sooner than later. I could see them re-remaster one of them in each new book though. I could see investigator being a good couple to daredevil and slayer for next year's book, and assuming we change to one new class per year (which I think after daredevil and slayer its time to do that), inventor and psychic could be paired with a third class to represent "the perfection of the mortal mind" or something like that. Wizard is tricky because we got a ton of magic-themed books already.
The Daredevil and Slayer being in the same book gave me a thought; even in Starfined, new classes tend to come in pairs, and the latest SF2e playtest only had one class. That makes me wonder if the book the Luminary is in will be the first SF2e book to have some PF2e classes in it.
I think Psychic might be a class that fits in better in SF2e, at least in that Starfinder has multiple species that either have big brains, multiple brains, or have telepathy. In just 4 Sf2e season one scenarios, the word Psychic appears 111 times. There is a new intelligent species that I think will become an ancestor at some point that has appeared in 2 scenarios that count for 87 Psychic references, some of which have galactic-scale reach. In the SF2e playtest, there is an adventure that references Psychic phenomena 25 times, affecting the entire star system. It seems to me that there is enough Psychic stuff currently going on in SF2e to justify a full or partial Psychic class remaster or update in SF2e.
I do play PF2e; I don't spend a lot of time with the lore and current events. How common is Psychic phenomena in major events or the setting?
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Phsychic magic was significantly more common in PF1 than it has been in PF2 as far as adventures go. It just being a different kind of occult casting means that NPCs would pretty much have to have the ability to amp cantrips or unleash psyche to read like a psychic and not just a occult witch or a sorcerer.
No idea what or when Paizo will do with PF2e classes in SF2e; adding subclasses seems like an easy route, like how that added new PF2e heritages in Galactic Ancestries. But maybe more is possible to fix the classes themselves too. Anyway, just pointing out that if it doesn't happen in PF2e, there still might be a chance to fix them in SF2e.
A lot of classes I think would work fine with just some tech skill additions and maybe some new feats.
Classes like warrior/barbarians work pretty fine as is just give them access to modern weapons/armor.
SF2 already has a lot of stuff for priests so they can jump in and and have their domains and spells and preferred weapons.
Alchemist is one that could use some extra tinkering possibly let their bombs work like tech grenades for range and ability to bounce before exploding.
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Psychic could be saved with some errata. You don’t need drastic changes worth a whole new book to make it start with 3 focus points, remove stupefied from Unleash, etc.
The good thing is that we have precedent.
The Alchemist class has been reworked several times and with various degrees of intervention.
While some may argue that Psychic changes would need more extensive reworks, I've found that mechanically strong classes have a way of quelling most complaints.
Just look at the Oracle. It's objectively a more boring and less unique class compared to pre-remaster, but it gained a TON of power in compensation. See the lack of posts talking badly about Oracles? That's because those who try it like to enjoy the juicy amount of spell slots and the new strong Cursebound Feats and the limited penalties they get. Win win. *
*Battle Oracle complaints non-withstanding, of course, Weapon Trance is abysmal and could qualify as a crime against decency. But the rest of the class is powerful.