NEW BLOG! - Archives of Nethys

[Maya Coleman]

Yesterday, Archives of Nethys announced the end of our commercial licensing agreement. We have heard the outpouring of community feedback and want to reassure everyone that they will continue to operate under the Community Use Policy. More details in the blog.

[BotBrain]

Thank you for the update, this makes some degree of sense. I can certainly see how people would copy directly from the website not realising they're unable to do so, but this doesn't explain the other major change which is the end of the early access.

If possible, I would like to know what spurred that particular decision, as it seems unrelated to reducing the amount of DMCAs that need to be sent out.

[QuidEst]

Glad to have some more detail on this, and so quickly. From a purely selfish perspective, I will certainly miss the convenience of being able to reference which Starfinder ancestries are which visually, but I can understand that the extra work involved is more than we see on the surface.

[Jhaeren Embercrest]

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

[Cori Marie]

It does explain that though, this is what that is:

the blog post wrote:

Licenses take resources to manage—lawyers to review and follow up on contracts, finance employees to review and enter royalty statements, and licensing staff to provide assets and other support. Those resources must be balanced against other business demands.

Remember that Paizo is very small, and with the recent layoffs, they're even smaller. Every minute spent on a license is one that can't be spent elsewhere, and payroll that has to be paid.

[Dokuro Heartvore]

the art is essential to sell and entice the paizo products and help people get the feel of the fantastical through Archives of Nethys, AoN brings a lot of clients that way, way more than paizo seems aware of, and this is going to hurt Paizo more than it will do good in the long term as we've seen.

[Dokuro Heartvore]

Dokuro Heartvore wrote:

the art is essential to sell and entice the paizo products and help people get the feel of the fantastical through Archives of Nethys, AoN brings a lot of clients that way, way more than paizo seems aware of, and this is going to hurt Paizo more than it will do good in the long term as we've seen.

It is appreciated to be open to discussions tho

[Crouza]

If things are so financially dire, I don't understand why they would apparently be burning through their limited reserves spending money chasing down people using art. That seems like a really mixed priority, especially to then blame Nethys for it.

I can only assume that the exception for Nethys took more time for them to manage than they'd like, and more manpower than they wanted. My guess is that Demiplane, being a site that hosts a number of ttrgps beyond pathfinder and starfinder, has their own legal team who can offset that work vs the very lean operation AoN runs.

Still feels really stupid on Paizo's end to do this. All you did was shrink your already narrow margin, and get a bunch of people to drop what was a dependable passive income via their subscriptions, in a time where money is so tight that every lawyer and posted jpeg is money you can't afford to lose.

[TheTownsend]

Thank you for the prompt response, I'm sorry the timing of AoN's announcement allowed so much time for backlash and unfounded speculation to fester.

This is obviously a bad situation all around, hopefully things can be renogotiated once the Diamond situation is (satisfactorally) resolved and Paizo is on surer footing.

[Errenor]

Cori Marie wrote:

It does explain that though, this is what that is:

the blog post wrote:

Licenses take resources to manage—lawyers to review and follow up on contracts, finance employees to review and enter royalty statements, and licensing staff to provide assets and other support. Those resources must be balanced against other business demands.

Remember that Paizo is very small, and with the recent layoffs, they're even smaller. Every minute spent on a license is one that can't be spent elsewhere, and payroll that has to be paid.

Unchanged continued licence and contract to review? Unconvincing. Sending pdfs to one more address? Either. Unless they compile a set list of art which could be used themselves. That's some effort. Accounting would definitely exist, even it's all zeroes. How much work this is, not sure. Still doesn't look like much.

[BotBrain]

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

There are certain art assets available for use under the CUP. Someone with more experience with Demiplane might know more but if it's just iconic art, that's what AoN would still have access to.

[D.Gen]

Unless this same circumstance has happened with Demiplane, I frankly do not believe this post and floored by this choice from the company.
I will continue to withhold purchasing Paizo products until this decision is reversed.

[Maya Coleman]

I would like everyone to know as well that I am STILL working with the team to get a Community Use art dump somehow! We're not sure how yet, but it's a goal and is actively being worked on!

[MouthWideOpen]

At this point, even outside of whether or not I believe the blogpost (I do not), at this point I cannot see it being a good idea to keep going this direction.

Not only is Archives basically free marketing for Paizo and a reason a lot of people are even able to HOST Pathfinder (the absence of art there is going to make hosting games significantly harder for me), but this is majorly setting goodwill on fire. The legal fees cannot offset the amount of people who are vowing off giving Paizo money right now, or else this would have happened a LONG time ago.

Even from a cold pragmatic business perspective, the best course of action here is probably just to walk it back.

[baronvoncheese]

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

My guess would be that the royalties they receive from demiplane cover the costs that he is talking about. At least I hope that is all it is, if they announce some sort of expanded deal with demiplane in the near future I will be upset.

[BotBrain]

Maya Coleman wrote:

I would like everyone to know as well that I am STILL working with the team to get a Community Use art dump somehow! We're not sure how yet, but it's a goal and is actively being worked on!

Thanks Maya, please take it easy :)

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

Demiplane has a lot more to sell to people, thus there is likely cashflow enough to justify having to pay for all the lawyers.

Not loving this, wish there was a way for them to not have to husstle to get the pdf and do the rushed data entry (losing the artwork is .. fine but understandable if it has to be like this) that would have been nice

[remoraz]

I noticed this:
https://images.demiplane.com/compendium/pathfinder-2e/monster-core/yzBC6fjb spoPOPXR/06-25-PZO12003%20Diabolic%20Dragon.png?format=webp&width=1920

And was wondering if anyone could outline exactly which parts of Mr. Butler's post were just disingenuous corporate speak, and which might be honest, because it's sounding very "Williams/Cox" to me.

I guess this is their way of saying that you can create a browser extension to restore the functional loss of the images, because literally nothing about their access from the internet has changed except for who serves the images. So, what he meant was - it's confusing to people when they hit a FREE site with pictures and there's no way to pay for a licensing subscription to anything from the page. Thank Aroden that's fixed.

[Anorak]

Crouza wrote:

Still feels really stupid on Paizo's end to do this. All you did was shrink your already narrow margin, and get a bunch of people to drop what was a dependable passive income via their subscriptions, in a time where money is so tight that every lawyer and posted jpeg is money you can't afford to lose.

Sadly, when Money is involved, and laws are involved, you have to follow the law to get money, and vice versa. You also have to protect your interests, or it becomes diluted.*

You can't fault Paizo for protecting that, then supporting a solo artist fighting to do the same thing when they find illegal use of their art.

[Tridus]

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

Demiplane has a commercial licence. They do not use CUP. They pay Paizo to use those things, and then sell access to them (while some things are free like the rules that are under ORC anyway). So that's a different agreement entirely than the one Nethys had. We don't know everything in it.

[Mogloth]

Ya know, throwing AoN under the bus at the end of this blog is seriously not a good look.

[Thebigham]

Wow! Let's work backwards here.

1. AoN rightfully so wanted to make an announcement before new product was released to temper expectations. The worse thing a business can do is tell the people the day of expecting something that they are not going to deliver it. (Tales of the Vast FVTT module anyone?) Please don't try to spin this around on them breaking the news "too soon". Not a great look.

2. Ill let people more educated on the licenses chime in here but CUP and ORC are not the same thing. Telling AoN to use CUP when just last year Paizo attempted to get rid of CUP is not very comforting.

3. Question you give away the rules for free under the ORC license.. what does that process look like? Can I get those rules for free, how would I go about that process?

4. Punishing the many over the few bad actors "taking artwork" from AoN. Sigh..

5. The real meat of the message the money, dollars, bottom line, profits, etc.. the forest for the trees message here. The amount of money generated by AoN can't be quantified truly by a spreadsheet. You have to witness it first hand from the community. Be in touch with the community, in the trenches with the players and GMs to truly understand. If so you will quickly see that AoN is one of the MAJOR selling points for the system and in return you bring in new players and GMs, new tables, new groups, who will in return buy MORE of your product who might now have in the past if the cost to play was a burden to even try to see if they like it.

Safe to say very sad to see a company that I admired about being open and inclusive bring such a cold message about a bad decision that flies in the face of the community who help support it all these years.

What is finite is my time to game, so I want to make sure it is with a great community and a company that supports their community.....

[amalgamemnon]

The major issue here is that people won't have street-date access to the content in new books because Paizo has decided that AoN should have been producing royalties for them (wtaf?) instead of understanding that Nethys was essentially a way that people could participate in the hobby without having to spend money on physical books.

I've had no less than 4 subscriptions since prior to the Pathfinder 2e release date, and I have that I am seriously considering killing all of them over this. Forcing a website that generates interest and enables the hobby that your entire company is built around to wait until they get digital copies to start updating is beyond insanity.

"They can still operate under the CUP" is a joke of a "compromise". Paizo may be having financial hardship, but this comes suspiciously near the reorg, and I have to think that someone that took over is a hatchet man looking to make the company financials look good before an acquisition by some publicly traded company that will inevitably go the route that Hasbro did with WotC.

[Maruburr]

I think this poor response has really solidified that I need to cancel my subscriptions as well, y'all need to take a long look in the mirror here about all the decisions you've been making in the last year. We understand that you are struggling, but you are going to struggle a whole hell of a lot more if you keep degrading the experience of your customers. Paizo used to be a goto for me as a ttrpg company doing the right things, I have stopped being able to say that.

[LoreMonger13]

Maya Coleman wrote:

I would like everyone to know as well that I am STILL working with the team to get a Community Use art dump somehow! We're not sure how yet, but it's a goal and is actively being worked on!

We appreciate you deeply Maya and hope that you're alright in all of this!

Keep being awesome <3

[William Ronald]

Dokuro Heartvore wrote:

the art is essential to sell and entice the paizo products and help people get the feel of the fantastical through Archives of Nethys, AoN brings a lot of clients that way, way more than paizo seems aware of, and this is going to hurt Paizo more than it will do good in the long term as we've seen.

One problem that Paizo faces is allocation of resources. Perhaps the talks that were ongoing and can hopefully resume were focusing on how to handle some of the issues related to hosting content that is not Community Use content. Perhaps some sort of agreement can be set up. My hope is that both AoN and Paizo leadership will continue to talk and see what can be worked out. We can see what is possible.

[Jhaeren Embercrest]

Tridus wrote:

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

Demiplane has a commercial licence. They do not use CUP. They pay Paizo to use those things, and then sell access to them (while some things are free like the rules that are under ORC anyway). So that's a different agreement entirely than the one Nethys had. We don't know everything in it.

Demiplane still makes all the same things available FOR FREE that AoN does, though. Maybe you didn't realize this and that's why you are confused?

[Jhaeren Embercrest]

Maruburr wrote:

I think this poor response has really solidified that I need to cancel my subscriptions as well, y'all need to take a long look in the mirror here about all the decisions you've been making in the last year. We understand that you are struggling, but you are going to struggle a whole hell of a lot more if you keep degrading the experience of your customers. Paizo used to be a goto for me as a ttrpg company doing the right things, I have stopped being able to say that.

Yes, I just canceled all my subscriptions. Plenty of other games, plenty of other companies, and Paizo has lost my remaining goodwill.

[Goilveig]

I'm also a 4x-subscriber (lost omens, rulebooks, adventures, adventure paths) and to be honest - I don't really need those subscriptions. I have enough existing content that I could run games for my group for a decade without purchasing any new content.

I'm a subscriber because I want to support Paizo, but this is making me seriously reconsider. I was actually just thinking about subscribing to all of Starfinder as well but that is certainly on hold for now while I weigh whether I should even keep my Pathfinder subscriptions.

AoN is a pillar of our community, and the art in particular is a key reason I use the site - I print physical tokens for our games and I like to use the official art for said tokens.

This is an extremely disappointing move that is only going to alienate the community at a time when Paizo needs our support more than ever. I strongly encourage you to reconsider.

[Squark]

While this blog post dies go some way to explaining Paizo's reasoning, Jim's comment about Archives making the anouncement was uncalled for. The deadline was too close and there was too much labor. Failing to make an anouncement around this time would be irresponsible, and Jim's failure/refusal to recognize that comes across as vindictive.

[BotBrain]

They are still paying for the assets though, which means if we accept Paizo's premise is that giving the assets out for free imposes a drain on the company's resources, the deal the two have covers that additional expense. Demiplane also doesn't provide everything for free. The core rulebooks seem to be, but if I click around in the monsters section, I don't have access to monsters from Tales of The Vast, for instance.

[Greg K.]

People are not understanding (or willfully ignoring) that Demiplane is paying Paizo money, thus offsetting, at the very least some if not all, of the cost + the possibility of profit. I'm more interested in seeing the truth about if AoN rushed to make a statement or not, bc if they did and they admit to it, then ye I have no reason to mistrust Paizo. On the other hand if this is false, then I don't know how I'm gonna take it.

[Elfteiroh]

There's also that the way Demiplane is made and presented, most people know that they are "for profit", and thus, that also create less confusion. I haven't seen people scraping art from Demiplane, but I saw many that did on AoN. And yeah, as said previously, Demiplane do have a paid license, and thus, generate revenue that can then be used to clear up that (probably smaller) confusion they might create.

[Lady Marc]

Mogloth wrote:

Ya know, throwing AoN under the bus at the end of this blog is seriously not a good look.

Yeah, the thing I'm curious about, really, is what the details of the marketing agreement were and why Nethys did not mention it. Only one side of the story includes it. I'm concerned that it wasn't properly communicated, or did not meet Nethys's desires. A solution that still allows Nethys to acquire the books ahead of time while also not including the offending artwork seems to satisfy both parties, but we don't know what it entails.

[Maya Coleman]

LoreMonger13 wrote:

We appreciate you deeply Maya and hope that you're alright in all of this!

Keep being awesome <3

I'm doing the best I can!

All I can say additionally is that the blog we posted is sincere, and the fire under the "get the community the art they need" plan is burning even brighter since we need it now more than ever.

[Maya Coleman]

It is going to be difficult, since it would still need to be legally ok to do, but it is a goal!

[Tridus]

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

Tridus wrote:

Jhaeren Embercrest wrote:

This makes no sense, and comes across as completely disingenuous. The post itself fails to lay out a convincing rationale. How does this differ from Demiplane making the same content available for free? Others might assume that because Demiplane can do it, they can do it, too... and yet, I notice there are no announcements around Demiplane's ability to do so.

Demiplane has a commercial licence. They do not use CUP. They pay Paizo to use those things, and then sell access to them (while some things are free like the rules that are under ORC anyway). So that's a different agreement entirely than the one Nethys had. We don't know everything in it.

Demiplane still makes all the same things available FOR FREE that AoN does, though. Maybe you didn't realize this and that's why you are confused?

No, I'm not confused at all. Demiplane is playing by a set of rules that only applies to them because they have a specific licence with Paizo that no one else does. One that they're paying for.

That can include "make some stuff available for free". It can even include "make stuff available for free that other people can't". That can make sense as a way to get people to the site to then sell other content, which Paizo makes money from.

We don't know how this one works because its private, but we do know that it's different.

I don't have to like that to understand it.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Crouza wrote:

If things are so financially dire, I don't understand why they would apparently be burning through their limited reserves spending money chasing down people using art. That seems like a really mixed priority, especially to then blame Nethys for it.

I can only assume that the exception for Nethys took more time for them to manage than they'd like, and more manpower than they wanted. My guess is that Demiplane, being a site that hosts a number of ttrgps beyond pathfinder and starfinder, has their own legal team who can offset that work vs the very lean operation AoN runs.

Still feels really stupid on Paizo's end to do this. All you did was shrink your already narrow margin, and get a bunch of people to drop what was a dependable passive income via their subscriptions, in a time where money is so tight that every lawyer and posted jpeg is money you can't afford to lose.

That one might be to blame on the US copyright law, if you do not defend your copyright by doing DMCAs etc. you are prone to loose it. It's not a good thing but they really do not have options here.

[A Tailor]

I have been mired in a lot of emotions before making this post. I want to be sympathetic because I do ultimately feel like the team at Paizo has been through utter hell recently. I am typically content to not speak up much and let other, more enfranchised players and community members speak up. I assume that many within the company have already acknowledged how truly bad this makes you look, which is also likely contributing to a desire to not reach out to AoN and strike up a new deal. I can foresee this situation creating some hurt feelings and animosity. Unfortunately, I do not have sympathy for this.

AoN has been a beacon of getting people excited, interested, and involved in Pathfinder for the half decade I have been involved in the game. The work they put in for this community is not just valuable, it is indespensible. I have spoken kindly about the company culture at Paizo specifically because of AoN. I have happily spent a ton of money on Demiplane because of the good will Paizo earned. I have advocated for this game repeatedly and I have to look like an ass because of these higher management positions.

And I want to make it crystal clear that I cannot fathom this being an internally popular decision. The justification is weak. The thought-process is exceptionally poorly executed and communicated. And the words towards the end feel truly, utterly insulting. And I don't know how to contend with that. I want to be respectful and understanding, but I cannot view this as anything but a betrayal against everything this community stands for and has pushed for. Born out of desparation? Almost certainly, but the second you start eating your fans is the second we find ourselves in the situations that neccessitated the ORC and Pathfinder as a whole in the first place.

I am massively disappointed in this action and if things don't change swiftly, I can't see myself recommending the game or purchasing anything more from Paizo. This company can do better and the fact that AoN correctly read that they needed to get ahead of the company's statement speaks dismally to the communications you chose to have with them, your most devoted fans. This is a pretty shameful moment.

To be clear, I don't want to discount Maya's energy and response in this thread. Xyr approach has been everything this whole sordid affair has required and has been the one uplifting inkling of a situation that I find little to no pleasure in. Thanks, Maya.

[Cthoodles]

Maya Coleman wrote:

It is going to be difficult, since it would still need to be legally ok to do, but it is a goal!

Is there ever a world where AoN adopts a similar format to Pathbuilder? Users make an account, and can access the imageless version of the site for free, but then can pay for the images? I don't really care about having to pay a bit for it, I just wanna be able to run my games the same way.

[legomojo]

First off, let me just say, if sites using AoN’s hosted images is a problem, they can just change the HTTP_REFERER header and deny requests that do not originate from their domain. Then that stops others from embedding or hot linking. Then no takedowns needed. Unless they are saying and hosting the images… then what’s to stop them from using the Wiki images or, more problematical, Nexus’ images?

On a tangentially related note… as for my players and friends who play go, having ancestry images is helpful to lure players in to new things. Monster images would only be nice to have because I own the physical book for 70% of the monsters I use but I like to send these things over discord, even to my IRL in person players.

[Baelor the Bard]

As a person who is completely blind, I utilize the Archives of Nethys for everything I do that is related to Pathfinder and Starfinder, because the archives are hands down the most blind accessible way to access this content. When Paizo started this contract with AON 8 years ago, I was thrilled. Over the years I have purchased many rulebooks and adventures from Paizo to support the company, even though I rarely actually use the rulebooks more than once or twice to read the lore that doesn't make it to AON. Paizo's willingness to officially condone and support a resource like AON was a breath of fresh air in a society rapidly suffocating in a chokehold of corporate dominance.
Now, in what I can only describe as a WOTCian blunder, Paizo has decided to take advantage of a hardship that is not caused or exacerbated by AON in any way as an opportunity to take valuable and appreciated resources away from their players and fans in order to tuck them behind a nice little pay wall. As a blind person, I obviously can't make use of the art, although I find the reasons provided by Mr. Butler for restricting the artwork to be less than unsatisfactory. I will join others on this thread in pointing out, however, that absolutely no reason whatsoever was given for no longer delivering books to AON early so their content could be uploaded. But based on Mr. Butler's lackluster attempts to justify this travesty of a decision I can only assume the reasoning is yet more corporate greed. One thing I can say for sure is that unless this decision is reversed, Paizo will not see another dime from me. Any money I would have spent on Paizo products I will instead spend on supporting AON and buying products from creators who don't turn on their partners and fans the moment the going gets tough. I will continue playing Pathfinder and Starfinder, but I will only use the content available on AON. I will not support a company that does business this way.

[legomojo]

Cthoodles wrote:

Maya Coleman wrote:

It is going to be difficult, since it would still need to be legally ok to do, but it is a goal!

Is there ever a world where AoN adopts a similar format to Pathbuilder? Users make an account, and can access the imageless version of the site for free, but then can pay for the images? I don't really care about having to pay a bit for it, I just wanna be able to run my games the same way.

Honestly, I’d also pay a fee to use the classic full image version. Plus giving them money so they can get the PDF’s early and stay tuning would feel good. Honestly reading the rules on AoN is 75% of what convinces me I need to drop $70 on a book.

[Tridus]

Cthoodles wrote:

Maya Coleman wrote:

It is going to be difficult, since it would still need to be legally ok to do, but it is a goal!

Is there ever a world where AoN adopts a similar format to Pathbuilder? Users make an account, and can access the imageless version of the site for free, but then can pay for the images? I don't really care about having to pay a bit for it, I just wanna be able to run my games the same way.

Pathbuilder doesn't use things like deity names or other Golarian specific info because they sell access. If you want to sell access and use everything you need a different licence with Paizo. Pathbuilder just forgoes that and uses what's under ORC. That's part of why it's so affordable.

It's possible, but it would require a commercial arrangement, and then for AoN to process payments/accounts/etc, which it doesn't do right now and is itself not trivial. They could probably run it through Patreon but you'd need a sizable boost in patrons to make it worth doing.

Honestly I'd rather lose the images than lose the stuff like Deity info because AoN is the best resource anywhere for questions like which deities have spell X on their list, and such.

[Kalaam]

There is so many ways it could work better. Asking AoN tu use lower resolution versions or cropped versions of the pictures for one.

It's also inconsistent with Demiplane, as pointed out.

And that last comment is very petty and unprofessional. Almost sounds like using the community as a middle man to discuss with AoN. Could have just said "We are still discussing together to find a better arrangement" or something.

[Suegone]

I think its still incredibly disheartening that the liscencing agreement with AON is ending, even if its to protect the bottom line in a company that is going through great financial struggles. What concerns me more than anything else is decisions like these creating a pattern where multiple beloved fanmade tool and resources getting weakened which could alienate the exisiting community more. I really hope Paizo can make up for this and assure the community, most of all third party supporters, that Paizo has their backs.

[Tridus]

legomojo wrote:

First off, let me just say, if sites using AoN’s hosted images is a problem, they can just change the HTTP_REFERER header and deny requests that do not originate from their domain. Then that stops others from embedding or hot linking. Then no takedowns needed. Unless they are saying and hosting the images… then what’s to stop them from using the Wiki images or, more problematical, Nexus’ images?

Speaking as a software developer: HTTP_REFERER is trivially easy to bypass. I can make a HTTP request and set it to literally anything I want, including something that looks like AoN. Hotlink protection is more complex than that unless the goal is "stop the simplest case of direct hotlinking".

Though far as I can tell the problem isn't hotlinks: the problem is people scraping it off AoN and using it on their own sites. Some of that appears to be legit confusion because "stuff on AoN is freely available" is a common understanding that is usually true but isn't for the images.

Quote:

On a tangentially related note… as for my players and friends who play go, having ancestry images is helpful to lure players in to new things. Monster images would only be nice to have because I own the physical book for 70% of the monsters I use but I like to send these things over discord, even to my IRL in person players.

Yeah the ancestry art is super helpful when players are looking at things. Shoony are a great example because the art is delightful and certain people love the ancestry because of what it represents (a specific kind of dog), but it's not in a "core" book: it's in Extinction Curse book 3. No one is buying that book for ancestry art.

[0xTJ]

Reovyn wrote:

People are not understanding (or willfully ignoring) that Demiplane is paying Paizo money, thus offsetting, at the very least some if not all, of the cost + the possibility of profit. [...]

Tridus wrote:

No, I'm not confused at all. Demiplane is playing by a set of rules that only applies to them because they have a specific licence with Paizo that no one else does. One that they're paying for.

That sets aside the fact that Archives of Nethys has been responsible for huge amounts of revenue by bringing people into the system. It's not a neat number you can stick on the balance sheet, but it's a big number.

It'll be a loss to not be able to pull up the Tooth Fairy on AoN and say "Pathfinder's awesome, check out this gnarly thing".

I said that I'd cancel most of my subscriptions if things continued this way, and so I have. I feel quite bad about it, because I love the books and accessories, and I want to help keep Paizo going, but I do also want to stick to my word. Maybe I'll be tempted back in as we get close to next subscriber day, but for now I want to hold out. I hope this can be resolved in a reasonable compromise that at the very least doesn't hurt playability for people who have already invested in the system.

All the best to Maya and the rest of the team. I imagine it's a very tough few days in the office.

[Blave]

My memory might be off, but isn't full artworks a relatively recent development on AoN? Pretty sure they were an official partner before they started getting access to artworks.

I get that the art is important to many people, but couldn't you at least go back to the before-art agreement? Give them the books early (and hopefully for free) so they can keep helping the game grow even if they have to remove all (or at least most) art from the site.

[BotBrain]

Man perhaps I'm getting too personal on the forums but I'm so scared. I don't want my fave game in the whole world to go down the depths that DnD is currently plumbing. I know that to a large extent the diamond situation is to blame but man...