I have a Witch that's an Invoker Winter Witch going into PrC Winter Witch. She uses ice spells to blast opponents and freeze them in place.
I'm putting her into a gestalt game and I'm not sure what to gestalt her with. Yeah, there's wizard, but is that really the best choice? It does have great blasting spells, bonus metamagic feats, and is an Int caster. But it doesn't really do anything for saves or action economy.
So what would be a better choice than wizard?
With an intelligence-based caster, Slayer is a popular choice. It leaves you with all good saves, skills and BAB. Studied target could be very useful depending on which blasting options you choose. But that combo doesn't do much to amplify how much of a blaster you are, like going wizard would
Magus could work well. Eldritch Archer, maybe? Spellstrike a nice safe distance away.
Fighter would definitely help with the BAB, but after Precise Shot, there really aren't anymore combat feats I would need for blasting spells. Unless I load up on the defensive feats like Dodge and Great Fortitude.
I'll think about Slayer. At least for a few levels, it could be handy.
I must agree with Melkiador about Slayer being the best option. Not only do you get full BAB, all good save, d10 HP, more skills than any other class and full 9th level casting, but you also get tons of class features from both sides. Another benefit is that any slayer talents that grant a saving throw use INT for the save.
With Slayer you can also choose the talent Trap Finding and function as the rouge of the party. You can also take the Ranger Combat to gain feats without having to meet the prerequisites. The Invoker’s ability to boost stats synergizes well with the slayers combat ability.
Sneak attack can boost the damage of any damaging spell that requires an attack roll. Frozen Caress makes any touch spell a cold spell that deals 1d4 points of cold damage. That means it can be used with sneak attack. Touch of Fatigue is a cantrip so can be cast an unlimited number of times per day. At 12th level it would require the target to make a save or be fatigued and deal 1d4 +4d6 damage. And once you get Unnatural Cold the target only gets half their cold resistance. While that is not a lot of damage you can do this all day long.
Since Slayer is a full BAB class with full HP, and all good saves there is no reason for you to avoid melee combat. Not only that you have a built-in accuracy boost and will often be targeting touch attack instead of normal AC.
Slayer is a much better option than Fighter.
Other than the options already mentioned, vigilante might also be an interesting choice (depending on the campaign). The vigilante also has a broad range of archetypes (instead of or possibly in addition to the avenger/stalker vigilante specialization). An avenger vigilante may even be more advantageous than a slayer, considering both the social and vigilante talents.
Fort will still be a weak save, however.
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For pure utility, Empiricist Investigator + the Student of Philosophy Social trait might mix well with an Int-based caster, giving you the Alchemist's 'spell' power while making Perception, Sense Motive, Disable Device, and many social interactions both Int-based and boost-able with Inspiration (possibly even for free with the right talent selection).
It's a living world group where everyone has multiple characters. The various GMs pick a level range for a session and people apply to play that session. So the party is constantly changing.
we're currently playing a campaign with a winter witch/gestalted with a cold based kineticist that's very themed and very potent.
Ok. I think I've narrowed it down to either Wizard, Eldritch Archer Magus, or Kineticist. All 3 classes have good things going for them.
A one level dip into Inspired Blade Magus, mostly for Arcane Parry and Riposte seems a good option.
Taking 3 or 4 levels of a full divine casting class, one level of Wizard and then going into mystic theurge offers great flexibility and depth.
On another tack, it would help to know what your characters stats look like.
Did you mean Inspired Blade Swashbuckler?
I haven't readjusted the stats for the gestalt, but when I did the original sheet for her with just Witch, she got 10 Str, 17 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 9 Cha.
I'm going Muse-Touched Aasimar so she has a racial boost to Dex and Cha, and I used a 20 point buy.
Did you mean Inspired Blade Swashbuckler?
A bit of a sidetrack, but inspired blade swashbuckler combines very interestingly with the blade adept arcanist. Maybe that could be a backup character to keep in mind if you ever need to replace your witch.
I think I want to try Kineticist. It's on theme with the elemental stuff and has a ranged touch attack that never runs out, which is handy when I have to save spells.
Now the question is, what talents do I take? I'm going to go with water for the element since that's the one with the ice stuff. Maybe air for the second element at level 7.
I really enjoy the kineticist, but if you aren’t already familiar with them, there is a lot to understand how all of its parts work together. And it has some really common mistakes, like thinking that gather power works for non-blasts, when it only applies to blasts.
Also when looking at burn costs, remember that infusion specialization often partially negates the costs of those blast infusions. Some of them seem really costly, but are nearly free a few levels after getting them.
Ok. So Water is the primary element, of course. Then I guess air as the second element as level 7. I guess at 15, I'll expand water since none of the other elements fit the theme.
So I get Basic Hydrokinesis and Cold Blast at level one. Then Shroud of Water at level two. Then at level 7, I'll have access to Air Blast, Basic Aerokinesis, and Blizzard Blast. Then Ice Blast at level 15. Do I get the other simple blast from water by expanding?
It depends on if you want to do more blasting or shore up your weaknesses.
For shoring up your weaknesses I would go with either ranger or unchained monk. Either choice gets you:
Full BAB. This increases your CMD and makes you more accurate with ranged attack spells.
Good Fort and Ref saves
At least 2 extra skill points a level
Expanded class skills. Including acrobatics, climb, and swim; which are very useful to have a point or two in at low levels, especially when class skills.
If I was going to do an archer class, I would prefer Eldritch Archer Magus so I could shoot my spells with the weapon. Ranger doesn't really help with Witch very much since it's a Wis based class.
Ranger brings the same thing a slayer does. Full BAB, good fortitude and reflex saves, 6 skill points per level, d10 HP, and decent class features.
The full BAB improves your ranged combat by giving you a better chance to hit. The witch has a much lower BAB, but most of the time her spells target touch AC. This makes the witch fairly effective vs a lot of creatures that have a low touch AC, but she has a hard time with creatures with a high touch AC. By going with a full BAB class means any creature with a low touch AC is almost always hit and she has a good chance to hit creatures with a good touch AC. Going with a medium BAB class means she has a better chance to hit than the normal witch, but not as good as with a full BAB class. This type of synergy is what makes gestalt characters more powerful than normal.
Other than a medium BAB nothing the kineticist has really improves the witch. Their blasts cannot be used in the same phase as the witch’s spells and do not share the same “casting” stat. Since both classes rely on their primary stat this creates an imbalance where one class become the primary class and the other an afterthought. The kineticist at least gives you all good saves.
Ranger does normally require some WIS for spells, but it does not need to be that high. All he really needs is a WIS high enough to cast his spell, or you could choose an archetype that trades away spells. That was one reason I suggested the slayer. They do not have spells or magical ability so do not have a competing stat. Their studied strike applies to all attacks including touch spells. They can also get sneak attack on any damaging spells, including touch spells.
But this is your character, so play what you think will be fun.
Ok, I've changed my mind. I'm not going to go with kineticist. It's blasty enough on its own that it doesn't need any support from Witch. And Witch is what I'm trying to support in the first place.
I think I'm going to go with Eldritch Archer after all. It's not a full BAB class, but the spellstrike and spell combat help with move economy and has a decent amount of attack spells. Plus I can enhance my bow which will help with accuracy.
Archetype of Magus. Basically you're trading melee spellstrike and spell combat for ranged.
Ok. So as an Eldritch Archer Magus, I get arcana every 3 levels. I was thinking Arcane Accuracy, Broad Study, Reach Spellstrike, Spell Blending, and Quickened Magic. I need Broad Study to use the witch spells with spellstrike and spell combat. And Reach Spellstrike is needed to use melee touch spells with ranged spellstrike and spell combat. I can't move either of those earlier due to level requirements. That takes care of the arcana up through level 15.
The hexes were already picked out on the original build and won't be changing. Frozen Caress, Iceplant, Ice Tomb, Hoarfrost, and Numbing Chill. I lose several hexes to the archetypes I'm using so that's all I can use without taking the Extra Hex feat.
Speaking of feats, in this group, EITR is in play plus they give everyone a free level one bonus feat. So I can put Precise Shot and Rapid Shot at level one and get that out of the way. Weapon Focus could help with accuracy at level 3.
I get a bonus feat at level 5 that I can put a metamagic feat in. I think I'll put Rime Spell there. I don't really need any other metamagic feats. I plan to get a rod for Quicken Spell because +4 levels is way too high. (I realize they did it because it would be far too broken otherwise, but I'm still getting the rod.) I think I'll put Spell Penetration as the regular level 5 feat to help get past SR.
I'm thinking Spell Focus for level 7 and then Manyshot at level 9. Not sure what to do next. I get another bonus feat at level 11.
It’s unclear if you can combine rapid shot with spell combat, so you should check with your GM beforehand if you were planning to do that. Even if you’re allowed, it may be a bad idea in general. I’d have to run the math to be sure.
I'll ask him.
GM says it's cool.
Now the question is, is taking the -4 worth it? At low levels, probably not. At higher levels, maybe.
I still need it for Manyshot anyway so it's still going in, but I could push it until later. Can't take Manyshot until level 9 so I can plop it in at level 7.
Still can't take Weapon Focus until level 3 due to the BAB requirement. Guess I'll be putting Spell Focus at level one instead.
So the feats will look like this: Precise Shot and Spell Focus at level one (EITR and a bonus feat from a houserule), Weapon Focus at level 3, Spell Penetration and Rime Spell at level 5 (Magus bonus), then Rapid Shot at 7, and Manyshot at 9.
I want to pick out just a few more feats. Up to level 15. So I need 4 more since Magus gets a bonus at level 11.
I don't think I need any other metamagic feats and don't want any creation feats. So that leaves a combat feat for the bonus. Not sure what else to use though.
Those are some good choices. And I may want Penetrating Spell to help get past SR. So maybe Extra Hex and Penetrating Spell at 11, Improved Initiative at 13, and Accursed Hex at 15?
You can use your normal feats for extra hex, but not the bonus feat from the magus. That must be a combat feat or metamagic feat. I would recommend using your normal feats for something that boost both classes. The feats I would recommend would be things like spell focus and spell penetration and their greater versions.
If you are worried about spell resistance play an elf or half elf. Elves get a +2 to caster level to penetrate spell resistance that stacks with spell penetration and greater spell penetration. Half elves can take elven spirt to gain this ability.
For the bonus feats I would go for things that boost your defenses. With a gestalt character you have the limitations of both classes. A witch cannot cast spells in armor which means the character AC will be lower. As a ¾ BAB class your CMB is also going to be lower. Use the combat feats to counter these weakness.
Arcane Armor training and Arcane Armor Mastery are combat feats and would allow you to cast witch spells while wearing some armor. If you use mithral armor, you can eliminate the arcane spell failure while casting witch spells while wearing a mithral breastplate. Since the magus can already cast wearing armor you do not need to use it when casting a magus spell. The AC bonus from the armor is not just the base AC of the armor it also includes the enchantment bonus to the armor. The armor can also have other enchantments on it so can provide more than just AC. Your character will have resistance to cold, but a mithral breastplate of fire resistance would also give you fire resistance.
I meant Piercing Spell. I don't know why I put Penetrating Spell. My brain was probably mixing it up with the Spell Penetration feat.
I don't want to change my race. But Arcane Armor Training is a pretty good idea. If I drop Extra Hex and Piercing Spell, I can put them both at 11. Then Greater Spell Focus and Greater Spell Penetration?
Oh, I should pick out the wizard spells I get from Spell Blending. Since I'm taking that arcana at level 12, I can either get a single 4th level spell or a pair of 1-3 level spells.
I definitely want Gravity Bow for the extra damage. But I need a second spell.
Or I could do the Distant Spellstrike arcana instead and increase the range of my spells to the range of my bow.
I think I'm going to go with Distant Spellstrike instead of Spell Blending. I can just buy a wand of Gravity Bow and put some ranks into UMD.
So that leaves only traits. Magical Lineage lowers the metamagic level cost of a single spell. Limited but still useful. There's a regional trait that does the same thing but those are sadly application only in this group. There's always good ol' Reactionary, of course. Or one of the save boosting ones.
Ok. I think I'm going to go with Magical Lineage, but I need to decide what spell I'm going to use it on. There's the entire list of magus and witch to choose from, except the fire spells.
Ok. I think I'm going to go with Magical Lineage, but I need to decide what spell I'm going to use it on. There's the entire list of magus and witch to choose from, except the fire spells.
The default for magus is shocking grasp. But if you plan to never be in melee I would suggest snowball. It is on both lists and a 1st level intensified snowball is great fun.
Since you are going with magus and will be using a weapon to deliver spells Stabbing Spells would be a good choice. It gives a +2 trait bonus to your caster level to overcome spell resistance when you strike a foe with a weapon until the end of your next turn. If you use spell strike it should work on the current spell. The Trait does not specify melee weapon so it should work with a bow. Considering it gives the same bonus as spell penetration and stacks with spell penetration it would be very useful for your character. Unlike Magical Lineage it works with all your spells.
None of your classes have perception as a class skill. Seeker not only makes perception a class skill it also gives a +1 trait bonus to perceptions. As long as you put at least 1 point into perception that will give you a +4 to the most important skill in the game.
Stabbing Spell could be handy if I don't go with Magical Lineage.
I actually do have Perception as a class skill. The Eldritch Archer archetype switches out UMD for Perception as a class skill.
You know something funny? There are two different versions of the Snowball spell. One is an evocation spell and the other is conjuration. They do the exact same damage, but the conjuration version can stagger and doesn't have spell resistance.
I missed the eldritch archer gets perception as a class skill. That being the case I would recommend taking a trait to give either stealth or sense motive as a class skill. Both of those skills will be useful and as an INT based character you will have enough point to throw in a few points into them to get the class skill bonus. Clever Wordplay would allow you to use INT modifier for a CHA based skill. Bluff or intimidate would be the logical choices, but you still have UMD as a class skill and it is a CHA based skill.
That would be useful. I want a wand of Gravity Bow since I'm not going with Spell Blending and having a higher bonus in UMD will be helpful.
Ok, so I think that makes it Stabbing Spells and Clever Wordplay for my traits.
I think that might be everything. I picked out feats, hexes, and arcana up to level 15. And now I have the traits. There's nothing else I have to choose except exact skill ranks and spells for the spellbooks. I'm pretty much done here.