There is no archmage archetype, prestige class, subclass, or feats insofar as I'm aware. Just a couple themed items, such as the archmage's regalia and robe of the archmagi.
So, if you want to play as an archmage*, then how might you go about doing it?
No homebrew rules or third party content suggestions please.
Craft Anything and alllll the optional craft rules might end up being a significant part of that package, imo. It's a PC-only superpower that should not be overlooked due to not being a gp saver.
Not just the allow/disallow on the optional crating stuff, but also invoking every bit of the text's GM-discretion on setting price points.
One of my GMs is allowing my PC to use the "items as raw material cost" optional rule, and set the price point of recycling wands into other wands as 90% efficient. It's still a genuine ouch to my gp, but the ability to re-make wands into other spells has become a huuuuge deal for making wands a desirable tool to engage with.
(and allows for using multiple lower R wands as mats for a higher R wand, or vice-versa)
Gardens of Wonder (pay big up front cost for free "use today or it poofs" consumables) are expensive in the timescale of an AP, but with how the gp economy scales absurdly with level, any L20 PC can easily afford Gardens of the low-level evergreen wonders. L8 Quickness Potion is an easy example.
(RaW min price of L10 perm magic item needed to seed L8 garden would be 820 gp. Genuinely a good deal for high lvl PCs, imo.)
Aside from the Gardens that are pumping out scrolls/etc every day, the PC of course is carrying all the top-shelf equipment like that Third Eye, etc.
Don't forget hirelings, which kinda are needed for Gardens of Wonder to go smoothly. Having a number of hireling spellcasters under the PC is both a big "archmage flex" and needed to keep the passive item / income stuff playable when using RaW and not hand-waiving rule restrictions.
Hirelings are a totally RaW way to allow players to spend gp to automate tasks, and again with the nutty lvl gp scaling, but throwing 1,000 gp into an account for that will last a long time, longer than most APs I think.
I don't think there's actually a smooth way to deliver items at planetary scale, tbh. You kinda need to abuse things like Retrieval Prisms not limiting the item to one prism only, so the hireling can poof a S.Pouch back to them at night, fill it (including w a spare R.Prism) at then rub tomorrow's prism on it.
The archmage checks the clock, then uses their own R.Prism to yoink the bag to them during the morning prep.
The prism trick might be needed for some stuff, but I forgot about the details on how "until next prep" sustaining works. The only restriction is that the spell comes from a "real" spell slot, no need to re-touch the boxes/bags/etc.
Any hireling of R3 spells can simply cast Magic Mailbox once, then keep that spell sustained forever, so long as they don't become comatose.
(RaW says this is 18 gp a day for R3 spellcasting)
After delivering the linked box, it's easy for an archmage to keep a pipeline to their tower/fortress/etc.
(If you put [extradimensional] items in the box, and have an air supply, it's also literally a teleportation network for people. My L20 post-Stolen Fate Alch/ Witch/ Ritualist is def using a M.Mailbox P.Tunnel network so she doesn't need to personally poof people around with her magic teleportation cube)
Don't forget that M.Mailbox only works while they are on the same plane, so the archmage needs some outpost in the material/etc, and cannot just have their hirelings live in their demiplane full time!
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a uniquely powerful and talented master of the arcane arts, a cut well above your typical NPC wizard or sorcerer.
Uh... Isn't that what any Arcane tradition PC spellcaster is supposed to be?
Or are you actually meaning 'a cut well above the existing Wizard and Sorcerer classes'? Because that would be a homebrew class and my first question would be, "what are you going to give up in the name of game balance in order to get the 'cut above' spellcasting power?"
a uniquely powerful and talented master of the arcane arts, a cut well above your typical NPC wizard or sorcerer.Uh... Isn't that what any Arcane tradition PC spellcaster is supposed to be?
As this is essentially a brainstorm thread, I intentionally left it as a VERY broad open concept.
What is an "archmage" to you? How might you represent it in-game and with what mechanics?
Sure you could simply say "be a high level wizard" but that's not really conducive to the discussion's goal of generating ideas.
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To me, archmage is like a title for a high level practitioner of the arcane magic. It has 0 mechanical meaning.
It's more like an academic title.
Anyways, I second what Finoan said.
I think if you want it to have more mechanical meaning, you actually need to define what is it and not leave it broad. Left broad as you have, I would define an archmage as "the head/leader of any magical institution" could claim the title of archmage. Although may use a different title that should be interpreted as equivalent.
So 0 mechnical meaning and no direct way of accomplishing it, other than pursuing a career as a teacher of the arcane within a story.
a uniquely powerful and talented master of the arcane arts, a cut well above your typical NPC wizard or sorcerer.Uh... Isn't that what any Arcane tradition PC spellcaster is supposed to be?As this is essentially a brainstorm thread, I intentionally left it as a VERY broad open concept.
What is an "archmage" to you? How might you represent it in-game and with what mechanics?
Sure you could simply say "be a high level wizard" but that's not really conducive to the discussion's goal of generating ideas.
You literally specified no homebrew or 3rd party, while mentioning no such Archetype options exist RaW, lol. Talk about tall orders.
Kinda hard to have a class chassis that's more "archmage" than a L20 Wizard.If you want to work within the RaW and still obtain that character feel, that'll mean using magical items to increase the magic at the PC's disposal.
Things like all long-term magics provided via wands so slots can be reserved for other stuff, items like that magic mirror shield for 1 p day Spell Parry, etc.
Because PC crafters are kinda nuts compared to NPCs, you can get that "world warping" effect of a PC changing the landscape via all the magic they are weaving. Being able to pass out Decanters of Endless Water to desert villages like candy can help provide that archmage feel, imo.
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Yeah high level wizard in position of authority feels like the only true answer here. You could potentially broaden the definition to include other spell casters but the title is usually applied to wizards in fiction. There are a few archetypes which signify membership in magical institutions, like Magaambyan attendant. Or at least dedication to a very specific field of study like Runelord.
The definition is too loose to discuss specific builds for, other than maybe just the most OP wizard build.
You'll probably have to go mythic to get an "archmage feeling" on a character: Avenging Runelord for a specialist archmage, or Wildspell for a generalist archmage.
A very strict definition would be: Archmage = any person who can cast at least 2 arcane/occult spells of 10th rank per day from their own powers.
Otherwise you can lessen the definitional requirements to a specialized description, e.g. an archmage of abjuration = capable of counteracting almost all magic they encounter.
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So for a "Archmage" I am thinking arcane caster, but able to truly break some rules. Like in the series Might Nein, we see the sinister Trent Ikithon doing some minor healing.
In Fantasy High we see the perfect example of an Archmage, Arthur Augefort, resurrect two students (it comes at a cost, but still that is breaking some rules)
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.
So for a "Archmage" I am thinking arcane caster, but able to truly break some rules. Like in the series Might Nein, we see the sinister Trent Ikithon doing some minor healing.
In Fantasy High we see the perfect example of an Archmage, Arthur Augefort, resurrect two students (it comes at a cost, but still that is breaking some rules)
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.
Magaambyan attendant and Halcyon Speaker blend arcane and primal casting on top of signifying achievement.
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.
Well why don't we pull on that thread, shall we?
How might your wizard break with tradition or otherwise expand their abilities beyond those normally expected of wizards in order to claim the title of archmage?
I also quite like the idea of narrowing the focus based on campaign themes, such as the Magaambya and the Runelords mentioned by Captain Morgan. How might archmages from different cultures or organizations differ from one another?
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.Well why don't we pull on that thread, shall we?
How might your wizard break with tradition or otherwise expand their abilities beyond those normally expected of wizards in order to claim the title of archmage?
I also quite like the idea of narrowing the focus based on campaign themes, such as the Magaambya and the Runelords mentioned by Captain Morgan. How might archmages from different cultures or organizations differ from one another?
I don't think (generally) being an archmage means breaking from expectations of wizards. Rather it means being a master of magic. The prefix "arch" denotes leadership. It doesn't necessarily mean being the strongest. And it doesn't have anything to do with doing things other mages wouldn't, not necessarily.
A Magaambyan wizard would be expected to use both arcane and primal magic. But I wouldn't say that it makes all practitioners archmagi.
Rather than examine how "archmages" of different cultures are different, examine what is the same between them. That is the essence of an archmage.
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The weird thing is it would depend on how you use your magic. If you specialize in polymorph spells or Void/Vitality spells, being able to add the heal spell to your spell book, and take some healing spells, or polymorph or void/Vitality spells from other traditions and add them to your spell book as arcane spells.
If you focus on illusory or enchantment spells, being able to pull some spells from the primal or occult list with mental or illusion, or emotion traits.
if you focus on damaging spells, being able to bump up the damage die of your cantrips, and maybe re-roll damage die on your damaging spells.
I don't know, some ideas.
I'm not sure that I agree that 10th rank spells are the determining factor for being an archmage.
For example, (and I'm not sure if there is new better information) but the High Sun-Mage of Magaambya, Oyamba, is only a 13th level wizard (and a 15th level character) according to Pathfinderwiki.
Unfortunately I don't have an easy way to look at all published caster NPCs, their levels, and their roles within the narrative.
I do agree that being "a high level caster" is important to being an archmage, but not necessarily being a 20th level caster.
At any given time there's probably less than ten 20th level characters on Golarion.
An archmage is an archmage because they keep out-maging other mages and somehow acquire consensus from their peers and inferiors that they are the most mage there is.
Had I asked for a squire instead of a knight, I doubt anyone would confuse the two or have any issues making different builds for each character concept.
Is the squire vs knight not also a matter of degree of skill?
Why then is archmage and wizard so difficult for us to work out? (Rhetorical, some explanations have already been given upthread.)
I think it's a bit like asking the difference between an apprentice, journeyman, master type situation. Or the difference between a younglings, padawan, jedi knight, master, and council and so on.
The exact requirements are fuzzy. There's not necessarily a specific test to take to say you're qualified to move up. In some instances, it's merely the the opinion of those already above you.
And it may not always be the "well known" abilities that get someone promoted. There is value in skilled diplomats, and there were definitely knights that served more as diplomats than as combatants.
Just a little thought on why it's hard to work out.
In my mind, an archmage must:
1) teach or lead a school of magical teaching
2) Be among the most powerful of their school, but not necessarily the most powerful, and that power may not be useful in combat. A wizard that can control the global weather patterns is incredibly powerful, but is not likely to be able to use that specific power in combat (although they may coincidentally have useful weather related combat powers).
They may have unique abilities, but it's not required.
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Honestly with the way curriculums were reinvented it is weird to me that wizards can't pilfer spells from other traditions. An infernal school that can summon demons should probably exist, for example.
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Taking another path, using Claxon's definition based around leadership, maybe something like a Wizard with the ability to direct and support other castors, even doing things like Sustaining spells FOR them, or using a reaction to spellshape another castor's spell, or even expending one of their spells, in place of another castor's lower level spell slot.
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An archmage is an archmage because they keep out-maging other mages and somehow acquire consensus from their peers and inferiors that they are the most mage there is.Had I asked for a squire instead of a knight, I doubt anyone would confuse the two or have any issues making different builds for each character concept.
Is the squire vs knight not also a matter of degree of skill?
Why then is archmage and wizard so difficult for us to work out? (Rhetorical, some explanations have already been given upthread.)
My 2cp on this comparison is that there are real-world examples to draw on. We know the relationship between Knights, Soldiers, and Squires because of history.
There is no such Apprentice, Wizard, Archmage history to draw on.
An archmage is an archmage because they keep out-maging other mages and somehow acquire consensus from their peers and inferiors that they are the most mage there is.Had I asked for a squire instead of a knight, I doubt anyone would confuse the two or have any issues making different builds for each character concept.
Is the squire vs knight not also a matter of degree of skill?
Why then is archmage and wizard so difficult for us to work out? (Rhetorical, some explanations have already been given upthread.)
My 2cp on this comparison is that there are real-world examples to draw on. We know the relationship between Knights, Soldiers, and Squires because of history.
There is no such Apprentice, Wizard, Archmage history to draw on.
That's a good point.
I'm not sure that I agree that 10th rank spells are the determining factor for being an archmage.
For example, (and I'm not sure if there is new better information) but the High Sun-Mage of Magaambya, Oyamba, is only a 13th level wizard (and a 15th level character) according to Pathfinderwiki.
Unfortunately I don't have an easy way to look at all published caster NPCs, their levels, and their roles within the narrative.
Spoilers for Strength of Thousands and Fists of the Ruby Phoenix:
But he didn't get the position due to simply being the strongest person at the Maaganbaya, because Mafika Ayuwari is level 17 and the one that leads the Maaganbaya team in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
There's an even stronger person who shows up later in SoT that I won't name, too.
I don't think "archmage" is ever used to describe either of them, as that isn't one of the Maaganbaya's titles. They use titles like Attendant, Conversant, Lore Speaker, Learned One, and apparently High-Sun Mage (though I'm curious if that would change if the leader was from another branch or not).
My 2cp on this comparison is that there are real-world examples to draw on. We know the relationship between Knights, Soldiers, and Squires because of history.
There is no such Apprentice, Wizard, Archmage history to draw on.
Going just by the title, I'd say that the highest ranking mage of ANY school would be eligible for the title.
Something like Archmage of Magical Engineering, Archmage of Ars Grammatica, and such.
It doesn't have to be that different Archmages are of equal power though.
To me it's more of a title of station rather a title of power.
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Similarly to the squire/knight example abovementioned, where someone may have been knighted due to pedigree, connections, and such, and barely know where to point the pointy bit towards to, and another may have been a battle hardened veteran of war that got the title from his achievements.
Yeah, this. While there's lots of reasons why someone can be knighted, we all have a real-world reference to base an interpretation on. "Archmage" has been used all kinds of different ways in different games and there's no shared understanding of what it means. In 3.x it was a prestige class for example.
In a game I ran, it was the title given to members of the city's ruling council. Thus the city had 5 Archmages because the city was a Mageocracy specifically ruled by arcane casters. They weren't necessarily the 5 strongest casters in the city, but if they could get into the office they got the title. (The two actual strongest casters in the city were the antagonist who preferred to not announce her power, and the "Arch-Healer", who was given that honorary title by the Archmage council both to recognize her contributions as a powerful divine caster, but also as a political attempt to get her support for some things they wanted to do because she held a lot of influence with the common people.)
But if you asked me in PF2 to make an "archmage themed character", I'd come up with an arcane caster of some variety that is also versed in rituals. Because in my head, an "archmage" is doing more than just firing off standard spells: they're the ones doing the grand displays of magic that push the boundaries of what magic can do and are beyond normal spellcasters. In PF2, rituals are the closest we get to that feel.
They'd be arcane simply because in my head the other traditions have different titles for their stronger members. Like a divine caster at this level is probably favored by their deity/church/cult/whatever and thus would have a title reflecting that.
(Kinda like if you told me to make an "Admiral themed character", I'm probably giving you a Commander of some variety.)
I'm not sure that I agree that 10th rank spells are the determining factor for being an archmage.
For example, (and I'm not sure if there is new better information) but the High Sun-Mage of Magaambya, Oyamba, is only a 13th level wizard (and a 15th level character) according to Pathfinderwiki.
Unfortunately I don't have an easy way to look at all published caster NPCs, their levels, and their roles within the narrative.
Spoilers for Strength of Thousands and Fists of the Ruby Phoenix:
** spoiler omitted **I don't think "archmage" is ever used to describe either of them, as that isn't one of the Maaganbaya's titles. They use titles like Attendant, Conversant, Lore Speaker, Learned One, and apparently High-Sun Mage (though I'm curious if that would change if the leader was from another branch or not).
All of that just reinforces what I've said.
Different cultures probably don't use the title archmage. And that it's more of a leadership position of a specific school, and that it's not necessarily about being the strongest character.
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.Well why don't we pull on that thread, shall we?
How might your wizard break with tradition or otherwise expand their abilities beyond those normally expected of wizards in order to claim the title of archmage?
Easy. My Imperial Sorcerer had Heal as his 1st-rank arcane signature spell and the daily ability to prepare one 1st-/2nd-rank spell regardless of tradition as another signature spell, e.g. Cleanse Affliction, Harm, or Silence.
Fey Influence (Unicorn), Elf + Otherworldly Acumen (+ Share Thoughts, Wildborn Magic, Brightness Seeker), Arcane Evolution + Ancestral Mage, wand of Recall Legacy.
I would want an Archmage to be able to do things outside of their tradition's normal wheel house.Well why don't we pull on that thread, shall we?
How might your wizard break with tradition or otherwise expand their abilities beyond those normally expected of wizards in order to claim the title of archmage?
Easy. My Imperial Sorcerer had Heal as his 1st-rank arcane signature spell and the daily ability to prepare one 1st-/2nd-rank spell regardless of tradition as another signature spell, e.g. Cleanse Affliction, Harm, or Silence.
Fey Influence (Unicorn), Elf + Otherworldly Acumen (+ Share Thoughts, Wildborn Magic, Brightness Seeker), Arcane Evolution + Ancestral Mage, wand of Recall Legacy.
:O
I think as long as you quadruple-class as a Wizard/Oracle/Primal Sorcerer/Occult Witch, you should be able to achieve the title.
SMH. Wizard/psychic/primal witch/divine sorcerer, so that arcane, occult, and primal all have Int as the casting stat; with unlimited free archetype, it's even possible to get Legendary arcane and Master occult and primal spell proficiency.
Why then is archmage and wizard so difficult for us to work out? (Rhetorical, some explanations have already been given upthread.)
A more serious answer is that PF2e is deliberately designed so that characters of the same class and level have pretty much the same effectiveness. Even in the context of fiction and previous iterations of AD&D/D&D, "archmage" mainly boils down to "high-level wizard" more than anything else; maybe with additional magic items, an artifact, or something similar. In PF2e, give an "archmage" the Sage's Calling and possibly a mythic destiny (other than wildspell, which is underpowered); yes, I know most of the mythic destinies don't do much to directly improve spellcasting.
Archmage is an arbitrary title. You can build an organization that recognizes that title. Then decide what they must do to earn it.
All the old D&D titles are gone in place of classes.
I imagine they could make an archmage Archetype and give it abilities.
It's not something I consider much. You can give your character whatever title they feel like it. If you want to be an archmage, name your character an archmage and come up with a reason why.
Well, we have been asked to stay out of homebrew rules as part of the OP request for a definition.
I think most people would agree as a general rule, an Arch-Mage is a high level wizard of some renown.
Trying to come up with things they would all, or many have in common.
All are probably High-level Wizards? Might a Sorcerer with a prepared arcane casting archetype , or perhaps a Summoner or other caster, with arcane prepared casting.
Likely items:
Has had at least one apprentice or student associated with them whom is recognized as strong even on their own. So they don't have to found a school, or have tons of students, but most acknowledged Arch-mages probably have led others to knowledge.
Historically, there are items associated with the role. Notably, the Robe of the Archmagi, I believe, however not necessarily in second edition I think there were also named items such as Staves, Rings, and maybe orbs. With this in mind those who reach this tier of 'recognition' may become peers of the other Archmages, and out of respect, they may share the knowledge of how to create these 'Archmage' magical items and they may tend to create their own versions of these items, though perhaps not all, create all of them. Creating one of these items might be a cultural keystone for claiming the role of an Archmage.
I imagine many or most Archmages probably have access/control to some sort of magical powersource that might help them drive more powerful magics than your more independent, untethered casters might be. It doesn't mean they are tethered and trapped by some particular source... but it isn't impossible that some might get accustomed to such access, and might choose not to stray to far from such access to power for long. (this if true, might take the form of Mythic ability or item, or a artifact or relic with abilities) Another example of a super powerful set of items is Nex's Archmage's Regalia.
Again, it is reasonable to consider in a universe that those whom recognize one another as 'Archmages' may consider each other peers in some respects, even grudgingly and they may communicate amongst one another, even when they might choose not to deal with 'lesser' sorts.
Many Archmages have potentially in their time, probably have created their own spell. Not that all creators of a new spell are archmages, but likely most or all Archmages may have a spell that is unique to them, or those whom they have taught.
To me, who would never ever want to be or play an Archmage, I can think of two narrative approaches that make sense to me as encapsulating what I think of when someone says “Archmage”.
1: A mage who has delved into the deepest mysteries and mastered the greatest magic of their school/tradition/source. Possibly to have discovered and or even created new spells, rituals and magicks that are earth-shattering or society/epochally defining.
2: a polyglot mage, who while perhaps not the greatest at any *one* mystery/tradition/school/source has reached very high levels of not only understanding but mastery of many if not all mysteries/traditions/schools/sources; and who through this multifaceted approach has achieved heretofore unseen syntheses or entanglements through their multiple powers/understandings/approaches that are earth-shattering or societally/epochally defining.
Then again, there is also option 3, by which one, in the original first edition Talisman boardgame “City” expansion, visits the Royal Wizard in the Castle and hands him a magic item. Any magic item. And one then become an Archmage, always having two spells. And then you win.
Plenty of approaches one can take.
If I wanted to make an archmage, I think the main thing I'd want is some way to flex on other casters when it comes to casting. Four things come to mind for me.
1) Spellshapes. This is the least of the bunch, since it's something that plenty of casters do normally. Conceal Spell is really solid here, since the archmage can just be talking casually while casting spells. The Spellshape Mastery capstone feat really sells that fantasy, getting a free-action spellshape on every spell. Unfortunately, Wizard doesn't really have many inherently impressive spellshapes, so you'll probably want to build out an effective combo or something to make it more than a parlor trick.
2) Modifying spells. Spell Trickster and Psychic Dedication both do this. The spell modifications are generally pretty minor and not the sort of thing you can flex as an "archmage". But, being able to split your fireball in two is pretty flashy. This is maybe something to include in a larger archmage kit, rather than a thing they actually brag about.
3) Rituals. The Ritualist archetype and/or some magic item support is good here. Rituals can be a lot stronger and longer-lasting than slotted spells, so an archmage who treats their regular spells as amusing and convenient tricks supplementary to their real magic works pretty well. Flexible Ritualist and familiar cut down on secondary casters, while Assured Ritualist makes sure you aren't taking penalties from relying on a familiar's low modifiers, and Efficient Ritualist is the biggest show of being better at rituals than casual practitioners.
4) Mythic. This is what "archmage" meant in PF1, and while mythic destinies don't actually let you feel like an archmage, the mythic spells and rituals do have a suitably grand feeling to them. Mythic Casting and Mythic Magic let you toss around some unusually high DCs, especially before 15th level. The mythic rituals just double down on the ritual archmage feel.
There are a lot of possible takes on an archmage, and I think if one were to take the Wizard as a base, you could have an archmage take their arcane thesis to an unprecedented level, e.g. being able to reprepare spells instantaneously or blend spell slots with no restriction.
Personally, I think if we go for Unified Theory and apply it to spells, an archmage could potentially be a Wizard whose mastery of arcane magic is so advanced that they can cast literally any spell from any tradition. There are of course ways to develop this further, but I quite like the idea of an archmage being able to generally transcend the normal limitations of magic, and having a comprehensive understanding of magic in its totality.
Within the context of PF2, I really can't think of an Archmage, at its core, being anything other than a high level arcane spellcaster, and potentially specifically a wizard, and also potentially with some uncommonly powerful narratively-acquired bag of tricks.
So essentially, any wizard PC could be an archmage after finishing their high level campaign and getting their end-game rewards.
It's a powerful arcane spellcaster + prestige, reknown, and/or wealth (connections, artifacts, political power, underlings, students, a seat of power, etc)