Imagitive uses of Fabricate.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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A Merman is attacking.

The sodium being taken in by his gills with the sea water becomes Lye.
----one cubic foot---- in, through, around, out, and as much as it takes to become a cubic foot of LYE.

If one argues you must target the seaWATER ....Salt content:

'A cubic foot of seawater contains about 2.2 pounds of salt' according to San Diego State University."

If it is water that is targeted it becomes ten cubic feet and then 22 POUNDS of salt---

Definitely going to be some fort and concentration checks...acid damage as well?


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First, the character needs to have an appropriate craft skill to make an item with Fabricate. Since Electrolyzing water is a modern technique, the character will not have the relevant craft skill.

Second quality of the finished item depends on the quality of the base material. Ocean water is probably considered very low quality for making lye. Before electrolyzing sea water, it is filtered and treated. Typically, you also add electrolytes and potassium hydroxide. This will mean the quality of the lye created is extremely poor.

Finally, the casting time of the fabricate is measured in full rounds. That will give the merman a time to move out of the area you are creating the lye in. Since you are underwater, the lye will also end up being diluted. Given the slow creation time and poor quality of the lye it probably will not do that much.

Salt (Sodium) is considered a mineral so the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level.

Silver Crusade

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Doesn't necessarily sound like electrolysis depending on the spell. Does fabricate specify it stays the same material?

How many ranks in alchemy gets you how far on the periodic table? Unlike seventeenth century versions, PF alchemy does work in many instances.


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Who is to say that the laws of physics in a world where magic works is the same as our world. As Oil Ironbar brought up Alchemy in the Pathfinder universe actually works. If medieval alchemy actually works that would seem to indicate that the natural laws of the universes diverge at some point. That being the case electrolysis may not work.


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This is the same logic I can use kill everyone in a room by making NOx from the atmosphere. Or you can use the spell as intended instead of trying to cheese it into a deathspell, really up to you and your GM.

Liberty's Edge

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[quoite]abricate
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 280
School transmutation; Level arcanist 5, occultist 5, psychic 5, sorcerer 5, wizard 5
Casting
Casting Time see text
Components V, S, M (the original material, which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created)
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target up to 10 cu. ft./level; see text
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell. The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication. If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet.

You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.

Casting requires 1 round per 10 cubic feet of material to be affected by the spell.

You aren't converting the salt and water in the seawater to lye, you are converting seawater into a product made of seawater.

Fabricate doesn't produce chemical reactions; it changes shape to things.


Can Fabricate turn X gp worth of powdered gems (e.g. ruby, diamond) into a gem worth X gp? What about vice versa?


Turning normal gems into powered gens should not be a problem, but the powdered gems may be worth less than the original material. Part of the value of a gem is in the way it is cut and polished to create the final product. So, turning a finished gem into a powder will reduce its value. If you used raw unworked gems instead of finished gems it should work.

Turning powered gems into finished gems will not work. Gems are not made of powered gems. That would be like turning ash into a wooden object. Basically, what the spell does is to allow you to do is to speed up the crafting process.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Turning normal gems into powered gens should not be a problem, but the powdered gems may be worth less than the original material. Part of the value of a gem is in the way it is cut and polished to create the final product. So, turning a finished gem into a powder will reduce its value. If you used raw unworked gems instead of finished gems it should work.

Turning powered gems into finished gems will not work. Gems are not made of powered gems. That would be like turning ash into a wooden object. Basically, what the spell does is to allow you to do is to speed up the crafting process.

Turning sawdust into a wooden object is a more appropriate comparison. Powdered gemstones are still the same material.

Gem "dust" can be turned into gemstones in the modern world (usually by sintering), so it is not entirely unreasonable for magically-aided crafting to be able to with appropriate craft (lapidary) rolls.


When you use sawdust to create particle board it does not have the characteristics of real wood. An object made of particle board is not the same as one made out of actual oak, even if the sawdust was originally oak.

Likewise, the material made by sintering gems is not the same as an actual gem.


Okay, moving into Asmodeus Advocate territory here. Our oak-sawdust particle board is certainly different from an oak log, but in game terms it would still be wood.

A gemstone is quite the different animal, err mineral, though. While the game doesn't dig deep into the geology, many gems have synthetics that are indistinguishable from their natural forms. Melting or dissolving some gemstones is comparable to melting and recasting/reforging of some metals.

However, since this is not true for all gemstones and the rules do not provide a list of fusible gems, it is also perfectly reasonable for a GM to decide a big nope to this generally - as you state. For example, I would not allow graphite or coal to be turned into diamonds with the spell despite all being carbon.

The spell clause, "The quality of items made by this spell is commensurate with the quality of material used as the basis for the new fabrication," is the limitation that allows a GM to adjudicate it either way. Powdered gems and sawdust are just not going to be of sufficient quality (or the product is going to be fragile, occluded, etc) in one view. Alternately, one may just instead require the powder to be of higher purity, or the sawdust is all darkwood sawdust.

Crossing spells now for a "power" check: it is possible to take a pulverized gem that has all its bits and cast the cantrip mending to remake it back into the original object. So using a 5th level spell to craft a new gem from a bunch of pulverized stones of the same type would probably be acceptable, except for the last issue...

Back to RAW/RAI- But in the end, the spell was designed for crafting. The material component must be the original material which costs the same amount as the raw materials required to craft the item to be created. So RAW, and assuming craft check succeeds, our fabricated item is 3 times the value of the raw material used. Using our hypothetical craft (gemstone) example, we need 333 1/3 gp of raw ruby material to craft a 1000 gp ruby. No issue with verisimilitude, as worked, cut gems are usually more valuable than uncut, but! - does become an issue when you can just keep casting this spell on the ruby to triple its value each time. This is a potential problem because of the use of gems as expensive spell components. Onyx and diamonds would be particularly popular.

In conclusion, it's probably a bad idea to let spell components be the spell component of this spell to craft more spell components.

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