This ability states that the Shaman "can select any hex possessed by her spirit or wandering spirit."
Does this include the generic Shaman hexes from the Hex class feature? Are those considered to be possessed by every spirit?
Many guides seem to assume that it does, but the Hex class feature does not mention anything about this interaction.
You raise a good point.
As far as I know there is no FAQ on this issue either. And the phrase "can select any hex possessed by her spirit or wandering spirit" is, as far as I know, unique to this piece of rules text, so you can't get anywhere by looking for how the phrase is interpreted when used elsewhere in the rules.
Which leaves it a matter for a GM ruling. Unless there is something I am missing, which is quite possible I fear.
I would rule that you can take any hex you could take if you selected either spirit including generic hexes. Since the rules don't explicitly say, I think it seems right to allow the same choice you would have if you were gaining a hex as a result of going up a level.
The way I see it is that the hexes from the spirit or wandering spirit are part of the class feature of the spirit or wandering spirit. This is further supported by the fact that the description of spirit specifically mentions that the hexes of the spirit are added to the list of hexes the character can choose from for their normal hexes. Likewise, the wandering spirit is specific that the hexes of the spirit can only be accessed by using the wandering hex.
The Draconic Shaman archetype does not gain a primary spirit but is still able to choose shaman hexes. That seems to be a clear indication that there is no link between spirit and the hex, and that only hexes on the list of the spirit are associated with the spirit. If it was the spirit that gives access to the hex how is the Draconic Shaman able to use a hex when he has no spirit?
Shaman class
Spirits(Su): ... At 1st level, a shaman gains the spirit ability granted by her chosen spirit. She adds the spells granted by that spirit to the list of spells that she can cast using spirit magic. She also adds the hexes possessed by that spirit to the list of hexes that she can use with the hex and wandering hex class features. Many shaman spirits have 4 levels of benefits; regular(spirit animal & wandering spirit), Greater, True, Manifestation. The shaman spirits only have what is listed in their description. The spirit animal uses familiar rules with (animal-> outsider, native).
Wandering Spirit (Su): At 4th level, a shaman can form a temporary bond with a spirit other than the one selected using her spirit class feature. She must make this selection each day when preparing her spells. While this feature is active, she gains the spirit ability granted by the spirit. She also adds the spells granted by that spirit to her list of spells that she can cast using spirit magic. She does not add the hexes from her wandering spirit to her list of hexes that she can choose from with the hex class feature. At 12th level, she gains the abilities listed in the greater version of her wandering spirit. At 20th level, she gains the ability listed in the true version of her wandering spirit. So Wandering Spirit does not offer its hexes.
Wandering Hex: At 6th level, a shaman can temporarily gain the use of one of the hexes possessed by either one of her spirits. She must make this selection each day when she prepares her spells. For the purposes of this ability, she can select any hex possessed by her spirit or wandering spirit. If she selects it from her wandering spirit, she loses the hex immediately if she bonds with another spirit, although she can then select a different hex to gain using this ability, from either her spirit or her new wandering spirit. At 14th level, a shaman can select two wandering hexes each day instead of one. This ability otherwise functions as the hex class feature. Now the shaman gets one from either but if he changes a spirit or one dies he has to rechoose. Preparing spells takes an hour thus a wandering spirit takes an hour once a day at the appointed time and an animal spirit takes a day and gp.
Quote: Wandering Hex: At 6th level, a shaman can temporarily gain the use of one of the hexes possessed by either one of her spirits. She must make this selection each day when she prepares her spells. For the purposes of this ability, she can select any hex possessed by her spirit or wandering spirit. If she selects it from her wandering spirit, she loses the hex immediately if she bonds with another spirit, although she can then select a different hex to gain using this ability, from either her spirit or her new wandering spirit. At 14th level, a shaman can select two wandering hexes each day instead of one. This ability otherwise functions as the hex class feature. It says "a shaman can temporarily gain the use of one of the hexes possessed by either one of her spirits." That's very unambiguous. Your wandering hex has to draw from either spirit's list of hexes, not your class list. Likely this was done to avoid having the Shaman obtain the Fetish or Cauldron hex as a wandering hex on downtime days and thus crafting magic items without any investment.
The Unsworn Shaman archetype isn't restricted in this way, however.
Tom Sampson wrote: It says "a shaman can temporarily gain the use of one of the hexes possessed by either one of her spirits." That's very unambiguous. Your wandering hex has to draw from either spirit's list of hexes, not your class list. Likely this was done to avoid having the Shaman obtain the Fetish or Cauldron hex as a wandering hex on downtime days and thus crafting magic items without any investment.
The Unsworn Shaman archetype isn't restricted in this way, however.
That is exactly what was confusing me. Iluzry's guide specifically calls out the option of using Fetish with Wandering Hex, but that seemed too good to be true at my reading.
Iluzry is mistaken. You can do that as an Unsworn Shaman, but not as a regular one.
It would appear I was mistaken.
Tom Sampson wrote: Iluzry is mistaken. You can do that as an Unsworn Shaman, but not as a regular one. Ilzury's guides are. . . not my favorite reference.
Those guides are written from a powergamer/optimizer/rules lawyer perspective. You can find several threads on these boards where Ilzury is trying to come up with a way of reading the rules to do something that a class can't do. Every time one idea got shot down, another one with even more convoluted reading would pop up. Just about every one of the guides includes at least one suggestion that only works if you seriously twist the language of the rules.
Belafon wrote: Tom Sampson wrote: Iluzry is mistaken. You can do that as an Unsworn Shaman, but not as a regular one. Ilzury's guides are. . . not my favorite reference.
Those guides are written from a powergamer/optimizer/rules lawyer perspective. You can find several threads on these boards where Ilzury is trying to come up with a way of reading the rules to do something that a class can't do. Every time one idea got shot down, another one with even more convoluted reading would pop up. Just about every one of the guides includes at least one suggestion that only works if you seriously twist the language of the rules. I know, but they are *so* detailed and give reasonings for their ratings and suggestions for how to use abilities, as opposed to a lot of guides which are just like "This one is good, this one sucks." With the many abilities and features in Pathfinder that are within themselves unclearly written or don't make it obvious how they interact with other abilities and features, having that level of explanation is very helpful.
I'm generally good at getting what I need from them, and will ask questions elsewhere if something, like this, seems too good to be true.
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Belafon wrote: Those guides are written from a powergamer/optimizer/rules lawyer perspective. You can find several threads on these boards where Ilzury is trying to come up with a way of reading the rules to do something that a class can't do. Every time one idea got shot down, another one with even more convoluted reading would pop up. Just about every one of the guides includes at least one suggestion that only works if you seriously twist the language of the rules. Convoluted reading of language isn't limited to power gamers. There are FAQs which involve equally convoluted readings or even would clearly be wrong if they were not from an official source.
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