0/Hello, is it possible for a character blowgun poisoner with Avoid Notice before an encounter to use Bon mot without reveal its postion ?
You can apply two different infused injury poisons to the same weapon, though not to a piece of ammunition. Each poison's level must be 2 or more levels lower than your level. You have to apply the two poisons individually. Once you've applied both, the poisons merge into a double poison that uses the lower of the two poisons' DCs and number of stages. This double poison is virulent only if both poisons were virulent. Combine the effects of each stage of the poison on any creature affected by it. For each stage of the poison, use the effects of both poisons and the longer interval for that stage among the two poisons.
Warpwobble poison (item 8)
Saving Throw DC 26 Will; Maximum Duration 6 rounds; Stage 1 treat all squares as difficult terrain (1 round); Stage 2 treat all squares as greater difficult terrain (1 round); Stage 3 treat all squares as uneven ground (DC 26), treating a critical success to Balance as a success, and a success as a success but moving on greater difficult terrain (1 round)
Pummel-growth toxin (item 13)
Saving Throw DC 32 Fortitude; Maximum Duration 6 rounds; Stage 1 4d6 poison damage, clumsy 1, and must succeed at a DC 5 flat check to perform an action with the manipulate trait or the action fails and is lost (1 round); Stage 2 4d6 poison damage, clumsy 1, slowed 1, 2d6 bludgeoning damage (1 round); Stage 3 4d6 poison damage, clumsy 2, slowed 2, 4d6 bludgeoning damage (1 round)
1/ 2 saves ? Will and Fortitude ? (Character at 15th level)
2/ For blowgun darts or alchemical ammunition, is it possible to put an injury poison on each ammunition before an adventure ?
Thanks for your future answer.
Best case scenario is that using Bon Mot reveals that you're there and general direction. Worse case scenario is that using bon mot makes you hidden to the enemy, which allows them to know what square you occupy, though they may not be able to see you depending on what's in the way. Because you're doing Bon Mot, you would not be able to use Stealth at the same time.
And honestly the worse case scenario is more supported by RAW.
So yeah...you're probably not going to give them that Bon Mont penalty without revealing yourself.
As for how to handle the save....it's unclear. As a GM I would probably rule that it's the same DC (whichever is lower), but that the effects have separate will and fort saves, as appropriate for individual poisons. And Bon Mot wouldn't apply to Fort of Reflex save stuff.
There is no question at all about the save. It uses the lowest DC save. It says that right in the ability. In the example, the lowest DC save is Will at 26.
It does not need to be defined in the ability, as it is already defined in the rules for Afflictions.
Player Core, Page 430:
When you're first exposed to the affliction, you must attempt a saving throw against it. This first attempt to stave off the affliction is called the initial save. An affliction usually requires a Fortitude save, but the exact save and its DC are listed after the name and type of affliction. Spells that can cause an affliction typically use the caster's spell DC.
On a successful initial saving throw, you are unaffected by that exposure to the affliction. You don't need to attempt further saving throws against it unless you are exposed to the affliction again.
Double Poison says to use the lowest save. Poison is an affliction, and afflictions tell you what save to use. So, in the example the lowest DC is not 26, it's Will 26.
Disagree with your view, as that potentially changes the save type of a poison and I'm not sure that's the intention.
It's clear the number of the DC is reduced to lowest, it's not clear if you're supposed to roll it into one if there are different save types.
We should assume the DCs will match, due to Alchemist's powerful alchemy feature.
As annoying as it is, Double Poison lacks the Additive mechanic, but if I were adjudicating it, I would apply the same lessons learned from Combine Elixir. If I rules-lawyer it a bit, I can say that this method is "the rules" due to the text's procedure of applying one poison, then the other.
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The first poison is the one that sets the base statistics and parameters, including saving throw type.
Using Double Poison to apply a second injury poison then edits the first poison only as declared in the feat.
If the 2nd save DC is lower, then reduce it to that number. If the 2nd has fewer number of stages, reduce to that number, etcetera. But nothing more.
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Basically, because the procedure does not say to change the save type, it gets to remain as that of the first poison. (it also does not say to add incap to the first psn if 2nd has it, but that's playing dirty, and I'd hope most GMs would prevent it)
It kinda blows that Alchemist's main consideration to determine if a feat of theirs is viable enough to take is trying to find dev-oversight loophole abuse cases, but that's the situation. To be worth the L14 feat slot, and spending your limited budget on injury poisons, it has to be a *big* upgrade.
For Double Poison, one key abuse is that you use the longer of the 2 poison's stage duration.
This is huge, because most poisons presume foes will get saves every round, but this allows you to "lock in" an affliction that foes will have no ability to remove. However, repeated exposures can still cause foes to drop down the affliction stages, even if they cannot progress back up during combat. (Though imo it'll nearly never be worth attempting to aim for a stage 2, both because of the resource burn and because there may be a 2nd foe you'd rather hit with an all-combat stage 1)
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The only "lock in" poison that's completely clean of snags or asterisks is Zerk, a 2-stage with a 1 min duration on the first stage and a 1 hr duration on stage 2.
This means that you can mix Zerk into any other poison you think "would be great, if only I could be sure the affliction would last all combat."
As Warpwobble is all debuff and no damage, it's actually a good base to mix Zerk into, and gives the L14 poisoner a rather system unique ability to dramatically reduce foe movement.
Context depending, that one might be worth going for stage 2, and a tactical party could make real use of a reliable movement advantage.
For a double poison, the target must make only a Will saving throw DC 26? Or a Will saving throw DC 26 and a fortitude saving throw DC 26 ?
For a double poison, the target must make only a Will saving throw DC 26? Or a Will saving throw DC 26 and a fortitude saving throw DC 26 ?
I'd claim that there's enough RaW to say they only make a single save due to the feat outputting a single, combination poison. No way to read the text and reach a "make both saves" answer, imo.
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As to which save that is, that detail is rather unwritten.
My proposed answer is that the initial poison serves as the base, and the 2nd edits it as the feat text instructs.
This would mean that the save type for a Will & Fort combo depends on the order. If you use the Will first, that'll be the save of the output poison. Reverse the order and use the Fort as the base, and the output will keep that Fort save.