Hi, i have a player who is trying to counteract a monster's ability with the spell "Shadow Siphon". Specifically, this ability is Accursed Shriek (Creature: Spectral Devil). Can that effect be countered?
The spell used is Shadow Siphon, which says:
"Cast [reaction] verbal; Trigger A spell or magical effect deals damage
Range 60 feet; Targets the triggering spell
Exchanging material energy with that of the Shadow Plane, you transform the triggering spell into a partially illusory version of itself. Attempt to counteract the target spell. If the attempt is successful, any creatures that would be damaged by the spell instead take only half as much damage, but the spell otherwise works as normal. Treat shadow siphon's counteract level as 2 higher for this attempt".
Since it refers to "magical effect deals damage", can it counteract the magical effect of a ability?
Ability Accursed Shriek: "The Spectral Devil unleashes a terrifying whinny in a 30-foot cone that deals 5d10 + 2 sonic damage. Each creature in the area must attempt a DC 31 Reflex save."
If it can, what level should be chosen to calculate the counteract?
Thanks.
It's level 10 creature so it will be an level 10 effect. Just check the counteract table
So basically you probably are casting it using a rank 5 spellslot to counter a rank 5 (lvl 9-10) ability. If you success your counteract check you will diminish its damage by half.
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Hi, i have a player who is trying to counteract a monster's ability with the spell "Shadow Siphon". Specifically, this ability is Accursed Shriek (Creature: Spectral Devil). Can that effect be countered?
The spell used is Shadow Siphon, which says:
"Cast [reaction] verbal; Trigger A spell or magical effect deals damage
Range 60 feet; Targets the triggering spell
Exchanging material energy with that of the Shadow Plane, you transform the triggering spell into a partially illusory version of itself. Attempt to counteract the target spell. If the attempt is successful, any creatures that would be damaged by the spell instead take only half as much damage, but the spell otherwise works as normal. Treat shadow siphon's counteract level as 2 higher for this attempt".Since it refers to "magical effect deals damage", can it counteract the magical effect of a ability?
Yes, because:
Ability Accursed Shriek: "The Spectral Devil unleashes a terrifying whinny in a 30-foot cone that deals 5d10 + 2 sonic damage. Each creature in the area must attempt a DC 31 Reflex save."
Accursed Shriek has the [Occult] trait, which says that anything with it is magical. That makes this a magical effect that deals damage.
If it can, what level should be chosen to calculate the counteract?
Counteract rules say this: "Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract rank (minimum counteract rank 0). If an effect's level is unclear and it came from a creature, halve and round up the creature's level."
It's a Creature 10, so 5 is your target counteract rank.
It's level 10 creature so it will be an level 10 effect. Just check the counteract table
Counteract uses Rank, not level. So a level 10 creature's ability would be a Rank 5 effect to counteract.
Yes, Spell Siphon can be used to Counteract abilities of creatures, not just spells. Because that is how Spell Siphon specifically is written.
For ability modifiers, you would roll the spellcasting bonus of the caster using Spell Siphon against the effect DC of the ability (The DC 31 of Accursed Shriek).
For Rank comparison, it would be the Rank of the creature (Rank 5 for a level 10 creature) against the spell Rank of Spell Siphon that it is cast at. Then check the roll results and find out if the counteract effect happens or not.
It's level 10 creature so it will be an level 10 effect. Just check the counteract tableCounteract uses Rank, not level. So a level 10 creature's ability would be a Rank 5 effect to counteract.
The table is written in both formats now.
Yes it is in that link. The level is in parentheses in the table.
So its pretty simple to use this table if your counteract spell is rank 5, so just go to rank 5 line and check the columns (failure in your counteract check still counteracts rank 4 effects (level 7-8) or less, in case of success it will counteract rank 6 effects (level 11-12) or less, in case of critical success it will counteract rank 8 (level 15-16) or less effects.
So as the OP is using a Shadow Siphon that it's a rank 5 spell vs a lvl 10 creature it will to have success or greater to be able to counteract the creature magical ability.
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Normally you should read the description of things to understand them correctly. :P
But I personally found the table quite intuitive to read on your own. OK, I'm biased because I already know the rule and identify that the levels in parentheses were the levels where you gain access to that magic rank, so the rest was automatic.
Normally you should read the description of things to understand them correctly. :P
But I personally found the table quite intuitive to read on your own. OK, I'm biased because I already know the rule and identify that the levels in parentheses were the levels where you gain access to that magic rank, so the rest was automatic.
Amusingly, I find the table harder to read now because it's throwing so many numbers at you, some of which are on a different scale than the others because some are ranks and some are levels.
Seriously?
The table is pretty intuitive for me. Ex.:
Rank effect: I'm facing a rank 4 effect. What counteract effect I need to use grant a counter act even in a failure check? So I check in the failure column for the rank 4 and check what is the rank that my spell needs to be in the same line in the first column (5 in this case).
Level effect: I'm facing a level 13 creature magic effect. What counteract effect I need to use grant a counter act even in a failure check? So I check in the failure column for the level 13 (between parentheses) and found it is rank 8 to grant that I can dismiss even in a failure, só I check the first column of this line I notice that I need to cast a rank 8 counteract effect. But I don't have access to such rank now but I may risck to use my spell to counteract only in a success or higher. So I check the success column for lvl 13 and found it in the same line of counteract rank 6. So I can cast a rank 6 counteract spell to try to counteract it.
It's just check the column of what you want (the rank of your spell or the rank(level) of the effect you want to counter action in case of failure (column 2), success (column 3) or even critical success (column 4).
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Don't forget that Shadow Siphon treats its counteract level as 2 higher, so using a 5th level spell slot has it treated as a 7th level counteract. So even on a failure (as long as it's not a critical failure), it will counteract a 6th rank effect, so a level 11-12 creature's ability or lower.
So yeah, that's the big advantage for Shadow Siphon - you're only halving damage, not fully countering things you target with it, but you can use it at a lower level than what you're trying to counteract than you'd normally need to use, and if you use one that's just one rank below what you're countering, you still do it even if you fail, as long as you don't fail by 10 or more.
Even without up-casting, if you're confident you'll roll a normal success, you can counteract an 8th rank (level 15-16) effect with the base 5th level slot for it.
It's not that the table is hard. It's that calculating ranks, success degree and applying -1/+1/+3 is not that difficult and doesn't require looking at any tables.
You might be the first. Everyone I've ever met in this hobby has needed to look up the counteract rules when counteracting. It's easily one of the most complex rules in 2e. The new grapple if you will (for those of you who have been around for a few editions). People have had to make flow charts just to get a handle on it.