So my DM is considering starting a mythic game where we build characters around a specific theme/niche with all the items that could boost that one theme. So for example, one player is going the niche of summoning so they build a master summoner with all the appropriate summoner feats like superior, augmented, evolved etc feats and mythic abilities(along with a scaling artifact the dm made since we couldn’t find a primary item for him). Another build around the enchanter niche so nine tailed heir kitsune with psychic bloodline to cast in fox shape and feats to boost enchantment dc and hide casting.
So we are missing a sort of traditional divine caster so I want to play it but I can’t really decide what kind of niche a cleric could fill. Initially I was thinking of a turning specialist since I built that before for 3.5e but the crux of that build was that I could turn things like outsiders and plants using epic feats or prestige classes and could make my turning massively more effective with sun domain and the sun god prestige classes which I don’t think I have heard of for pathfinder. Can someone give me some ideas
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base your build/theme on a really good (or 'bad') pun. It's your mything link.
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My advice is to decide on the type of cleric you want first, then use the mythic options to make the character "better" at what you focused on. There are quite a few different ways you can make an "effective" cleric.
Take a look at the cleric on Archives of Nethys, especially the archetypes, domains, and variant channeling.
In a mythic game I would recommend an Oracle over a cleric. Inspired spell allows an oracle to cast any spell on their list. This lessens the impact of only knowing a limited number of spells. A Oracle has a lot more class features than a cleric due to revelations, and the ability to gain more by taking extra revelations. Mythic Domain boosts all revelations by 4 levels.
Oracle’s have a theme backed into the class from their mystery and curse.
Don’t know what other classs beside the two you listed are being played, but a battle cleric (or oracle with the Battle Mystery) might be a really good choice.
If you do want to stick with cleric an Aasimar cleric with the sun and glory domains focusing on channeling can be very effective. If the campaign has a lot of undead and evil outsiders your channel energy will do a lot of damage. Between the sun domain and the Aasimar favored class bonus you end up doing an extra 1.5 points of damage per level. I have a player who is running one in a undead focused mythic campaign I am running and he does quite well.
Personally I would probably go with an oracle of heavens and spam out mythic color spray. The heavens mystery has a lot of decent combat revelations and spells. Take the blackened curse to add some fire spells to you list of spells known. As I mentioned before Inspired spell will allow you access to any cleric spell so you can still handle condition removal without having to waste spells known or depend on items.
Azothath wrote: base your build/theme on a really good (or 'bad') pun. It's your mything link. Sure, go fungal pilgrim and tell them you follow the Holy Shiitake, but you're a fungi to be with.
Can play luck as a superpower as a serendipity shaman named Rab Bitfoot. Unfortunately, if you go the hierophant path as usual for divine casters, then you'll have to ask your GM, "pretty please" if you can take hex abilities from the archimage path. Who knows, you might get lucky!
I'd see myself to the door, but I'd probably be tossed by the bouncers by this point. There was that slight misunderstanding when I did that vivisection on Michael at the pub.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: If you do want to stick with cleric an Aasimar cleric with the sun and glory domains focusing on channeling can be very effective. If the campaign has a lot of undead and evil outsiders your channel energy will do a lot of damage. Between the sun domain and the Aasimar favored class bonus you end up doing an extra 1.5 points of damage per level. I have a player who is running one in a undead focused mythic campaign I am running and he does quite well.
Personally I would probably go with an oracle of heavens and spam out mythic color spray. The heavens mystery has a lot of decent combat revelations and spells. Take the blackened curse to add some fire spells to you list of spells known. As I mentioned before Inspired spell will allow you access to any cleric spell so you can still handle condition removal without having to waste spells known or depend on items.
That’s interesting. After seeing your comment I went to look for some tips on making a channeling build and I think I might consider it. On top of what you said I could get vmc order of the stars cavalier to get half my character lvl(which counts as cavalier levels here) added to cleric lvl to get more dice so 5 more dice. Maybe take either holy vindicator(extra dice and some lvls in envoy of balance for extra ways to use the channel energy. I haven’t properly stated it out yet since I am still deciding but maybe it could be interesting and fit the theme of the game.
I grok do u wrote: Azothath wrote: base your build/theme on a really good (or 'bad') pun. It's your mything link. Sure, go fungal pilgrim and tell them you follow the Holy Shiitake, but you're a fungi to be with.
Can play luck as a superpower as a serendipity shaman named Rab Bitfoot. Unfortunately, if you go the hierophant path as usual for divine casters, then you'll have to ask your GM, "pretty please" if you can take hex abilities from the archimage path. Who knows, you might get lucky!
I'd see myself to the door, but I'd probably be tossed by the bouncers by this point. There was that slight misunderstanding when I did that vivisection on Michael at the pub. That’s pretty good actually I am definitely stealing this to use maybe in this game or the next lol
I would not advise trading away half your feats in a mythic game. Most mythic feats require you to have the base feat first so that is going to limit your options. You are going to want to pick up the Hierophant path ability Bleed Holy Power. This allows you to channel energy as an immediate action when damaged by an undead. When you do so you can still channel energy normally, but if you do so you will be using your channel energy uses very quickly. Extra Channel becomes an almost must have feat and you may even want to take it multiple times.
You will also probably want alignment channel and the mythic alignment channel. Mythic improved channel is also a feat you should take. It causes any non-mythic foe to roll their saving throw twice and take the lower result. Mythic Extra Channel may also be useful. It allows you to use two mythic points to channel energy when you have no uses left. You will also want to have feats to boost your spell casting. Mythic Spell Penetration and Mythic spell Focus are very good to have. Both of those boosts both the normal and greater version of the normal feat while only requiring a single mythic feat.
Even though you are focusing on channel energy you still need option for when that does not work. Using all your resources for channel energy is going to weaken the character. It also means you will probably be using it too much so may run out and not have it available when you need it most. By giving yourself other options you can really shine when the situation to use channel energy does come up.
Weeeknight wrote: ... one player is ... master summoner with all the appropriate summoner feats like superior, augmented, evolved etc feats and mythic abilities(along with a scaling artifact the dm made since we couldn’t find a primary item for him). Another build around the enchanter niche so nine tailed heir kitsune with psychic bloodline to cast in fox shape and feats to boost enchantment dc and hide casting.
So we are missing a sort of traditional divine caster so I want to play it but I can’t really decide what kind of niche a cleric could fill. ...
My initial comment was to keep it fun as mythic is a bit over-the-top.
I think as a classic divine caster you are going to feel the power difference. So with two specialists you should be a bit more diverse. The summoner's critters will act as your muscle/combat but if he's taken out then his summonings flounder. The enchanter is your face and social maven.
So I'm going to suggest a (drumroll) samsaran wizard diviner with a dip into varisian priest cleric, bond obj(amulet) for amulet of mage/spell mastery, then a weapon from favored weapon (listed in the post below). It will mean you go first, have access to both spell lists, have cure light, cure mod, beastspeak, thorny entangle, and a few others from Witch & mythic past lives.
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If your GM will fix Mystic Theurge so you get class abilities I'd do that otherwise avoid it. If you do a custom artifact make it a staff that does arcane & divine spells. The staff will let you focus your spell levels where you need it so it's more powerful than it appears.
Another good option is Oracle/paladin, Occultist, or (LoL) Gunslinger.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I would not advise trading away half your feats in a mythic game. Most mythic feats require you to have the base feat first so that is going to limit your options. You are going to want to pick up the Hierophant path ability Bleed Holy Power. This allows you to channel energy as an immediate action when damaged by an undead. When you do so you can still channel energy normally, but if you do so you will be using your channel energy uses very quickly. Extra Channel becomes an almost must have feat and you may even want to take it multiple times.
You will also probably want alignment channel and the mythic alignment channel. Mythic improved channel is also a feat you should take. It causes any non-mythic foe to roll their saving throw twice and take the lower result. Mythic Extra Channel may also be useful. It allows you to use two mythic points to channel energy when you have no uses left. You will also want to have feats to boost your spell casting. Mythic Spell Penetration and Mythic spell Focus are very good to have. Both of those boosts both the normal and greater version of the normal feat while only requiring a single mythic feat.
Even though you are focusing on channel energy you still need option for when that does not work. Using all your resources for channel energy is going to weaken the character. It also means you will probably be using it too much so may run out and not have it available when you need it most. By giving yourself other options you can really shine when the situation to use channel energy does come up.
That is true and I have considered it but I think I found a way I can use channeling on basically anything. Blossoming light cleric lets my channels affect chaotic evil outsiders, people who worship chaotic evil deities and anything with sunlight sensitivity, while also making it so I get 5+char mod+1/2 cleric level channels far more than normal. I can use spell focus and greater spell focus on transmutation to boost the fear the sun spell so I can forcibly give creatures sunlight sensitivity. Now my channel energy can affect basically anything as long as it fails the save. I am probably going to need to figure out if turn undead(feat) counts as harming undead so I can get free turns on all those things anyway. Even if I can’t, I can still cast fear the sun as my action and with quick channeling channel positive energy to hit everything. I think this counts as a pretty good niche. Plus still a full cleric with all the spells
Not sure blossoming light is worth it. You give up domain spell and the ability to use any armor. You have no class abilities that boost your AC so will be at a huge disadvantage. If you are focusing on channel energy you need to boost your CHA, as a cleric you need good WIS, you also need CON for fortitude saves and HP, that means you will not have the points for a really high DEX. You will need some DEX, but I don’t think you will have enough to compensate for not wearing armor. Channeling energy is a 30’ burst centered on the character. That means you need to be close to your targets.
Relying on Fear the Sun is a mistake. Pathfinder has been compared to rocket tag and mythic is usually considered nuclear rocket tag. So, having to wait till the second round of combat to act will often mean it is too late. When you also factor in your lower AC and the fact you have to be within 30’ to channel makes even worse. Fear the Sun is only a second level spell, so the saving throw is fairly low. Other than that spell there are no really good offensive transmutation spells on the clerics list. In order to get the DC to the point you can rely on it you will probably need to use at least 3 normal feats and 1 mythic feat and require using higher level spells.
This also leaves you a one trick pony and to be honest even with all the bonuses to channel it will not hold up as well as you think in a mythic game. At 20th level you will be doing 10d6 +30 points of damage. In a normal game that is decent, but that is nothing compared to what a single mythic evocation can do. Mythic Fire Storm can do 20d8 points of damage and cause the target to catch on fire if it fails a save.
The reason I suggested this build is that other than the domain choices and a few feats it leaves most of your feats free for other things. Those other things are equally important for the character.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: Not sure blossoming light is worth it. You give up domain spell and the ability to use any armor. You have no class abilities that boost your AC so will be at a huge disadvantage. If you are focusing on channel energy you need to boost your CHA, as a cleric you need good WIS, you also need CON for fortitude saves and HP, that means you will not have the points for a really high DEX. You will need some DEX, but I don’t think you will have enough to compensate for not wearing armor. Channeling energy is a 30’ burst centered on the character. That means you need to be close to your targets.
Relying on Fear the Sun is a mistake. Pathfinder has been compared to rocket tag and mythic is usually considered nuclear rocket tag. So, having to wait till the second round of combat to act will often mean it is too late. When you also factor in your lower AC and the fact you have to be within 30’ to channel makes even worse. Fear the Sun is only a second level spell, so the saving throw is fairly low. Other than that spell there are no really good offensive transmutation spells on the clerics list. In order to get the DC to the point you can rely on it you will probably need to use at least 3 normal feats and 1 mythic feat and require using higher level spells.
This also leaves you a one trick pony and to be honest even with all the bonuses to channel it will not hold up as well as you think in a mythic game. At 20th level you will be doing 10d6 +30 points of damage. In a normal game that is decent, but that is nothing compared to what a single mythic evocation can do. Mythic Fire Storm can do 20d8 points of damage and cause the target to catch on fire if it fails a save.
The reason I suggested this build is that other than the domain choices and a few feats it leaves most of your feats free for other things. Those other things are equally important for the character.
Fair but I will be dealing 15d8+30 dmg cause of the extra 5 dice from VMC cavalier and soul channel(the alternate capstone that adds 6 channels and all dice increase by 1 step). And we are in an evil game so it should be fine and mythic spells are more limited than channel since I will have 21(5+10+6(soul channel))+ char mod. Plus there’s a mythic path ability that lets me shape my channel so iirc I don’t have to be in the middle of combat since I can just make a 60 foot cone with selective channel to not target my allies. Purifying channel and mythic selective channel lets me boost the channel dmg even further when using selective channel and there’s also the normal feat that lets me deal 50% more damage for 2 channel. And with quicken channel and quicken fear the sun I can channel twice or channel and cast within the first turn.
Also being a more general character isn’t really the theme of the game. And we already have a super high single damage fire based caster with magic trick fire ball. I can build both and if it’s not very effective I can always switch.
Have you considered focusing your spell selection on buffing? I'm not opposed to your idea, but it is important to balance expectations. Focusing on channels REALLY means focusing. Almost to the point of being a one-trick pony.
Even with the additional channels you get from the Blossoming Light archetype, it is really easy to burn through your channels if you are using Channel Surge and Quick Channel on a regular basis. Conduit of Divine Will (6th-tier hierophant) lets you use a mythic power to channel, and Recuperation (3rd Tier Mythic ability) helps - if you have the time to use it.
More concerning is that the save DCs aren't going to be great. Even if you really crank your Charisma up, it's hard to keep up with the rate at which saves increase. And every point you put in Charisma is one you aren't putting in Wisdom. The lower wisdom affects your number of spells known and your save DCs (like fear the sun). Hence the suggestion to focus on buff spells (especially long-lasting ones like magic vestment or greater magic weapon).
And the amount of feats you need... (see spoiler)
Belafon wrote: Have you considered focusing your spell selection on buffing? I'm not opposed to your idea, but it is important to balance expectations. Focusing on channels REALLY means focusing. Almost to the point of being a one-trick pony.
Even with the additional channels you get from the Blossoming Light archetype, it is really easy to burn through your channels if you are using Channel Surge and Quick Channel on a regular basis. Conduit of Divine Will (6th-tier hierophant) lets you use a mythic power to channel, and Recuperation (3rd Tier Mythic ability) helps - if you have the time to use it.
More concerning is that the save DCs aren't going to be great. Even if you really crank your Charisma up, it's hard to keep up with the rate at which saves increase. And every point you put in Charisma is one you aren't putting in Wisdom. The lower wisdom affects your number of spells known and your save DCs (like fear the sun). Hence the suggestion to focus on buff spells (especially long-lasting ones like magic vestment or greater magic weapon).
And the amount of feats you need... (see spoiler)
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah actually that’s what I was think focusing the spells on buffing and support with my damage mainly coming from the channel and fear the sun. I probably should do the build breakdown at different levels but my games are more high fantasy so it might not be that bad. Mainly cause my usual group are in it mainly for the power fantasy aspect of ttrpgs
15d8+30 seems like a lot but compared to what a 20th level mythic caster can do it is not. I can have a sorcerer casting an empowered, intensified, maximized mythic fire ball that does 25d10. If the bloodline gives a +1 per die that is an average damage (still need to roll the empowered portion) of 356 points of damage that ignores fire resistance and immunity.
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