Divine Mysteries p297: Trade life for Death (Paradox of Opposites) - Infinite out of combat healing from a cantrip?


Rules Discussion


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Just got Divine Mysteries, looked at Witch Patron stuff and... I think I found the next character I'm playing.

The Witch's new Paradox of Opposites Patron seems absolutely delightful to run. I'm going to make a Goth Bleached Gnome Witch that got REALLY into Nihilism (and therefore stopped the bleaching by being really into being bleached? dunno, they're crazy).

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Anyways, they cantrip provided "Trade Life for Death" seems relatively quick way to get infinite healing outside of combat. I'm going to number them, so you can respond to each part.

Let me know which parts of this Cantrip wouldn't work, which would, and give me some references as to why.

1. Trade life for Death should be able to harm/target allies as it targets "1 creature":
Deal an ally 1-4 damage, effectively heal another ally for 10 out of combat, with a spamable cantrip (10 rounds of fast healing 1).

I don't see anything in it's targeting that would prevent me from say, casting it on two allies, damaging them for 1d4, and then having the healing from each applied to the other for a gain of 10 life (with lots of sustaining + cackling most rounds to keep them both going). For every ~1 minute of time, it's ~6-9 effective healing per target with a 3 targets max receiving the healing.
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2. Protect companion + Trade Death for Life should also work and it prevents crit failing causing 8 damage dealt to a target in exchange for guaranteed 5 damage taken from Protect Companion.

Protect companion says "Even if this reduces the damage to 0, the target still takes any effects that would come with the damage, such as the poison on a viper's fangs Strike."

And the "effect that comes with the damage" is "A willing creature within this hex's range gains fast healing 1, for as long as this spell is sustained, up to 10 rounds"

Take 5 guaranteed personal damage, to heal any target for 10. Sustain two instances of this (one to heal the 10 personal damage, one to heal a target for 10).
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3. Sustaining the fast healing portion of "Trade death for Life" doesn't seem to require the original target to continue being alive.

Have a small animal, insect, or otherwise captive creature on your person. Pull it out of storage, kill it with Trade Death for Life. Heal somebody for 10hp via 1 minute of fast healing.

Where am I going to get all these small creatures? My familiar is a domestic cat, nuff said. I have near infinite small unconscious birds/rodents. (Domestic cats collectively kill billions of birds per year, it's a major problem)
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4. Targeting "1 Creature" becomes a VERY BROAD definition to a Leshy, who can talk with plants.
Leshy: "Oh hey random patch of grass, how's the weather been treating you?"
Grass: "Great! Today's been wonderful, lots of sun, plenty of moisture"
Leshy: "Aww how cute, a sentient creature I can have a conversation with. SHAME IF SOMEONE CAST TRADE LIFE FOR DEATH"
I could make more meme about identity politics and shame on you for denying the creaturehood of what's clearly sentient, talking grass, but I think even this would be too much power gaming for most DMs and I have no plans for playing a Leshy. I just brought this up because A. Funny and B. to point out possible flaws with the power of this spell.

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6. - Some extra stuff not related to the Cantrip
Other character thoughts "Familiar of Paired Perplexity" makes me really want to lean into a Master's Form familiar dressed exactly like this crazy Witch, with speech and everything else to confuse people.

Leaning really hard into the Roleplay with the line about "Your Familiar seems to double and be in two places at once" would be great with a familiar that gets mistaken for my actual character all the time (including them finishing each other's sentences). Obviously, the familiar doesn't gain any combat abilities from master form, but you could argue the fact that it looks/dressed exactly like me, it could confuse enemy targeting, wasting enemy actions either chasing or attacking my familiar. I might need to disguise myself to look more like my familiar to make this work, as my familiar will have have a couple cat-like features and possibly "Twice as many of a small feature" due to "Familiar of Paired Peplexity." My charcter might paint 2 extra fake eyes on their forehead to match the familiar's 4 eyes or something.


Whoops, this is in the wrong forum, should be in the regular 2e "Rules Discussion" and not "third party rules" discussion.


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Faving your own posts? Well, I guess I shouldn't kinkshame

Anyway, I can't comment on your analysis of Trade Life For Death without its full text so I'll leave #1 alone except to say that if the second target must be an ally you can't heal yourself with it

2nd. Protect Companion can only target "your eidolon, or a creature with the minion trait under your control" so your familiar would qualify but not your party members. Again, if Trade Life For Death can only heal allies you'd have to deal with the damage taken to yourself some other way

C. Not many experienced GMs are going to entertain any "bag of rats" solutions, so don't get attached to that idea. Go ahead and Google that if you're unfamiliar with the phrase

IV. No

S. Missing?

b. Unrelated

Overall I'd say it's a Rube Goldberg machine of a healing solution when there are so many other "unlimited out of combat healing" options available in the game. I would probably roll my eyes but allow anything that's w/i the rules except the bag of rats if you pulled it at my table


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Baarogue wrote:
Anyway, I can't comment on your analysis of Trade Life For Death without its full text

Same boat.

Just going off what was posted, it looks like it targets any creature, so you could target yourself. I am assuming that enemies would get a save of some sort.

Baarogue wrote:
Overall I'd say it's a Rube Goldberg machine of a healing solution when there are so many other "unlimited out of combat healing" options available in the game. I would probably roll my eyes but allow anything that's w/i the rules except the bag of rats if you pulled it at my table

It looks like an average of 8 HP net gain per minute. I'm guessing per rank. Which would be about 80 HP per rank in 10 minutes.

Witch can also get Life Boost to do 8 HP per 10 minutes. That is 10 times slower, but will still get the job done. And it isn't even one of the better options.

Ocean's Balm from Kineticist does 1d8 per 'Rank' equivalent, but does it to the entire party every 10 minutes. Depending on party size that is up to about half as fast as this Trade Life for Death option.

And then we get to Garden of Healing from Animist. 1d4 per rank healing per round to the entire party for an entire minute, then a 10 minute focus point recharge. That is an average of 20 HP per 10 minutes for the entire party. With a 4 person party, that matches the 80 HP per rank in 10 minutes of Trade Life for Death as presented.

Out of combat healing has diminishing returns for speed. At some point, fast enough is fast enough.

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