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I was wondering if anybody could help me figure out how knowledge checks are intended to work in Starfinder 2e and what to expect from them. When I say "knowledge check" here, I mean anything like Recall Knowledge, Access Infosphere, or Gather Information.
In Pathfinder 2e, if you need to know something, you make a Recall Knowledge check. You either know a thing or you do not know a thing. One shot and you're done. Maybe if you're in town you could follow up with a Gather Information check, but I always had some feeling like there was at least a fuzzy line separating the domains of Recall Knowledge and Gather Information, and that they were often used for different purposes, or then not every thing you failed to recall knowledge on was worth investing time poking around town to figure out.
I wonder, with the addition of the Infosphere, does Starfinder 2e play similarly, or is acquiring knowledge just a different game now?
Of course you still can Recall Knowledge, that's normal. On top of it you can still Gather Information, but now the description for Gather Information mentions "Canvasing...online infospheres to learn more about a specific topic." I guess thinking of it as accessing the internet changes my idea of the way you use Gather Information vs. just talking to a bunch of locals. Is Gather Information in Starfinder 2e just a second chance at a failed Recall Knowledge check?
What about Access Infosphere? Is this a third chance at Recall Knowledge? Maybe these things are all balanced by the total time they would take (10 minutes for Access Infosphere seems somewhat trivial, 2 hours for Gather Information is significant though)? I never played Starfinder 1e so I don't have a good grasp on how these things work in actual play, or what the rules limit you to doing, since the playtest only mentions these things in isolation from one another (as far as I found).
I wanted to get people's opinions on what the intent seems to be as far as how these skills get used and when, and how they work in practice.
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I think failing or cirt failing when using the infosphere for a Recall Knowledge check is much more fun to role play in Starfinder, especially if your character believes everything they read on the infosphere.
In general, in SF1e I don't think of the infosphere as a way to get an extra check it's just another way to do so, assuming you even have access to an infosphere. I don't see why that would change in SF2e
Using Diplomacy to Canvasing...online infospheres is still a social skill, it's not just googling for an answer it would involve posting to forums and waiting for an answer back or taking the time to find and talk to people online until you find someone with the right info, so might save effort walking around talking to people but still takes time.
Using computer skills to recall knowledge is less reliable than being able to just remember something. Access to an infosphere is not guaranteed or available in all areas. In SF1e Infaux Spheres. area thing so even a successful check could give false info. The equipment you use may have a limited range, or the distance from the Infosphere may cause delays. So if using the infosphere would break an encounter it's easy for a GM to break the infosphere.
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Thank you very much for the responses! I was hoping to have more people weigh in on this so, if anybody reads this thread and feels like it's already been answered, I would encourage people to post because I would like to hear a number of people's experiences and see if people handle things the same way across their games. That said, thank you to the people who have responded so far. :)
I think that what I've read so far has helped me clarify my thinking about the subject, even if I still have questions. I suppose what I'm aiming for is to reconcile how the rules should/do work in game with how things should work logically in real life.
Sometimes the rules of the game align perfectly well and intuitively with how things work in the real world. Other times I see people arguing over whether a rule does or does not make sense as if realism was the foundational building block upon which all game rules are based, but I see it as the reverse: Paizo makes rules based on what will maintain game balance, then comes up with some explanation that will help people to suspend their disbelief. Game balance takes priority over 100% realism.
After reading the above, my thinking about the various knowledge check skills is this:
Recall Knowledge: A quick, off-the-top-of-your-head recollection of what you already know, typically takes 1 action (2 seconds).
Access Infosphere: Researching something you do not know to see what other people have said about it, checking websites for useful information. Typically takes 10 minutes to do the research, but maybe 1 minute if you're lucky.
Gather Information: If you don't find what you're looking for online you can always ask in a forum, send someone an e-mail, or otherwise request/inquire about some information you're seeking and see if anyone has anything helpful to say. Takes longer than browsing through conversations others have already had, typically 2 hours of asking questions and waiting for responses (which is really generous considering my real-life experience).
To speak to the more realistic side of things, I think the responses here have moved me in the opposite direction from what might be expected. As a logical sequence of events, it makes sense to me that I would first think if I already know the answer to something. If I do not, I would look online to see if anybody else has asked the same question. If not, I might post the question myself and see what others have to say about it. From a real-life perspective, it makes total sense that you perform all three of the actions under generally relaxed circumstances about something you were intent on getting an answer to. The question then becomes one of game balance: Do you make a rule limiting how many checks you can combine simply to maintain game balance, even if the alternative might seem more realistic?
The consensus so far seems to be yes, give players a choice of one of these three so that knowledge checks do not become trivial and remain impactful. If anybody else has input on the matter, whether you agree or disagree, or if you could say, "Yeah, this is how my group plays it too" or something, I would love to get a better idea of how many groups are handling these checks, so don't be shy to comment. Thanks. :)
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The times you list for each way of getting info make for a good guideline for most situations. Here are some of my other thoughts on the subject.
All of my experience is playing organized play where skill check encounters are already spelled out for the GM they tend to fall into a few categories.
1: One PC makes the final roll, and the other PCs can aid that roll.
2: Each PC makes one check from a list of useable skills. Sometimes the party needs x success to succeed, sometimes as long as one PC succeeds that's all that is needed.
3: Each PC gets 3 rolls times all at once, or over 3 turns, again there is a list of different skills that can be used. Usually, this takes x success to succeed.
If you are playing a home game, especially a sandbox game, then it's up to the GM And there are lots of variables to consider.
1: Dose the planet or star system the party is in even have an infosphere?
2: There isn't one infosphere. What is the infosphere like or how familiar are the PCs to it? The info sphere on Absalom Station is going to be very different than the one on Outpost Zed, Outpost Zed should feel alien to someone from the Pactworld.
3: How are the PCs connecting to the infosphere? The SF2e playtest book only lists the most basic comm unit. In SF1e comm units had different ranges such as planetary, system-wide, and unlimited.
4: Private infospheres might need to be hacked to get in.
5: How hard is it to find the info the PCs are looking for. Looking for Zo!'s latest video when in the Pact Worlds would be a DC -500 flat check, and take seconds. Discovering what happened during the Gap would be a DC 1 flat check to find conspiracy theories on the Gap, and DC infinity to find actual facts. It could take a lifetime to read all the conspiracy theories on the Gap trying to find any truth in them. Looking for other information falls somewhere in between that.
6: Will the PCs getting the info at this point in the adventure break the adventure? If so find a way to break, block, slow the infosphere, or give out false info.
It really just comes down to the GM picking a DC, how long each check takes, and if the PCs can keep trying if they fail. Depending on how much time is needed different ways of recalling knowledge, using the infosphere, gathering info, or using the research subsystem can be used as needed.
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I think failing or cirt failing when using the infosphere for a Recall Knowledge check is much more fun to role play in Starfinder, especially if your character believes everything they read on the infosphere.
I am now imagining the following scenario:
Starfinder 1: So... let me get this straight: you were trying to seduce this ambassador from an alien species... and you accidentally killed her with a massage?
Starfinder 2: Yes, but I don't know why that killed her! The spot I massaged is supposed to be where the pleasure areas are!
S1: *Looks at dead alien and critically succeeds a medicine check* No. No, it is not. It's where the brain is located for her species... by massaging that spot, you basically massaged her brain into goop. *Looks back at S2* Why on Lost Golarion did you think that was a pleasure spot???
S2: Because it said so on the infosphere!