Do effects that have multiple options count as separate effects for each different effect, as in they can exist together, or do they all count as duplicate effects, as in only one instance applies?
I have two examples relevant to my new sorcerer:
1. The imperial bloodline blood magic imperious defense can grant myself either an AC or saving throw bonus. Can I have both bonuses up at the same time provided I cast two spells that benefits from blood magic in one turn, or do they as duplicate ‘imperious defense’ effects so only one instance applies?
2. The resist energy spell has several energy damage resistance options it can grant to a target. Can I have two instances of resist energy on a target each for a different damage type resistance, or do they count as duplicate ‘resist energy’ effects so only one instance applies?
1. Sorcerer Blood Magic specifically says you can only benefit from one instance of the effect at a time; you need a feat to be able to benefit from a secondary effect, though with the feat you can gain both effects with one casting.
2. Resist Energy can stack in this case because they are modifying different values and don't have any conflicting clauses preventing them from stacking. Also, the odds of this coming up or being relevant in actual play is so rare that it's not really going to come up, and honestly, since it costs both limited resources and action economy, I don't see the problem.
Generally I would allow different effects from the same spell or ability as long as they are fully different effects.
The Resist Energy spell being a clear example. I would definitely allow Resist Energy (fire) followed by Resist Energy (acid) and then have both resistances in effect.
There are other things that definitely don't work, but not necessarily because of duplicate effect rules. The example here is Untamed Form. The Polymorph trait prevents being under the effect of two instances of Untamed Form and having both - or even some of both - be in effect.
I think there are also things that are duplicate effects and shouldn't be allowed to stack. You shouldn't be allowed to cast two instances of Wrathful Storm over the same area and have both take effect even if you always choose different events from the list for the two instances.
So tl;dr, I think it needs to be ruled on a case-by-case basis.
I think OP is talking about this part of Game Conventions in PC chapter 8.
When you're affected by the same thing multiple times, only one instance applies, using the higher level or rank of the effects, or the newer effect if the two are equal. For example, if you were using mystic armor and then cast it again, you'd still benefit from only one casting of that spell. Casting a spell again on the same target might get you a better duration or effect if it were cast at a higher rank the second time, but otherwise doing so gives you no advantage.
So I don't think Resist Energy would stack. Even if you pick a different option, you are still casting the same spell again on the target so only the higher rank - or failing that, the more recent - casting would apply.
I recall the days of old edition yore where I could essentially make myself immune to dispels simply by having redundant long duration buffs.
So I don't think Resist Energy would stack. Even if you pick a different option, you are still casting the same spell again on the target so only the higher rank - or failing that, the more recent - casting would apply.
It is the same spell.
The rule doesn't mention spells other than as the two examples. The non-example part of the rule says 'effects' or 'affected by'.
Which makes sense. We use this same rule to prevent overlapping the same Kineticist aura from two Kineticists to both apply to the same creature. A Kineticist aura is not a spell. But it is still an effect, so the rule applies even if the examples don't match.
Fire Resistance (5) is a different effect from Electricity Resistance (5). So I don't see the rule as preventing those two effects. They aren't the same effect, even if they both came from a casting of Resist Energy.
It is the same spell.
The rule doesn't mention spells other than as the two examples. The non-example part of the rule says 'effects' or 'affected by'.
Which makes sense. We use this same rule to prevent overlapping the same Kineticist aura from two Kineticists to both apply to the same creature. A Kineticist aura is not a spell. But it is still an effect, so the rule applies even if the examples don't match.
Fire Resistance (5) is a different effect from Electricity Resistance (5). So I don't see the rule as preventing those two effects. They aren't the same effect, even if they both came from a casting of Resist Energy.
The rule states rather clearly that casting twice the same spell gives no advantage besides duration and spell rank. So "not seeing the rule preventing those two effects" is a case of selective blindness.
I think OP is talking about this part of Game Conventions in PC chapter 8.
When you're affected by the same thing multiple times, only one instance applies, using the higher level or rank of the effects, or the newer effect if the two are equal. For example, if you were using mystic armor and then cast it again, you'd still benefit from only one casting of that spell. Casting a spell again on the same target might get you a better duration or effect if it were cast at a higher rank the second time, but otherwise doing so gives you no advantage.So I don't think Resist Energy would stack. Even if you pick a different option, you are still casting the same spell again on the target so only the higher rank - or failing that, the more recent - casting would apply.
The example only mentions a spell with a singular effect, not a spell with variable effects. The first sentence doesn't apply to Resist Energy for two different elements because they cease to be the same things, as they diverge from one another. At no point does the rule mention anything being different outside of higher durations or heightened benefits, so the clause doesn't seem like it can reasonably apply to Resist Energy. Nor does Resist Energy have a clause that says "You can only benefit from one casting of this spell at a time; only the recent version applies."
Now, if the description referred to different effects (or choices), I would see the point, but it references an ability with a singular effect and heightened values behind it, which is not what Resist Energy's choices affect.
The rule states rather clearly that casting twice the same spell gives no advantage besides duration and spell rank. So "not seeing the rule preventing those two effects" is a case of selective blindness.It is the same spell.
The rule doesn't mention spells other than as the two examples. The non-example part of the rule says 'effects' or 'affected by'.
Which makes sense. We use this same rule to prevent overlapping the same Kineticist aura from two Kineticists to both apply to the same creature. A Kineticist aura is not a spell. But it is still an effect, so the rule applies even if the examples don't match.
Fire Resistance (5) is a different effect from Electricity Resistance (5). So I don't see the rule as preventing those two effects. They aren't the same effect, even if they both came from a casting of Resist Energy.
Please elaborate.
Do you think that Fire Resistance (5) and Electricity Resistance (5) are the same effect? Are they still the same effect if you are getting one from Charhide Goblin Heritage and the other from Resist Energy?
Which part of the rule: "When you're affected by the same thing multiple times, only one instance applies, using the higher level or rank of the effects, or the newer effect if the two are equal." references spells?
Yes, the example is a spell. A spell that only has one consistent effect that it causes every time the spell is cast.
There is also the note that you can cast the same spell to get a better effect or a longer duration.
In the case of Resist Energy, the second casting is not giving a better effect or a longer duration. The second casting is giving a different effect.
Explain your logic please.