| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From the latest wave of errata:
Replace the effect of Restorative Recollection with the following: “There is a part of your mind in another reality always processing your situation. You can Recall Knowledge with any skill you are trained in. Decrease your stunned value by 2 or slowed value by 1. If you lost an action this turn due to the stunned or slowed condition, you can use Restorative Recollection as a free action.”
For reference, here's how the stunned condition works:
You've become senseless. You can't act. Stunned usually includes a value, which indicates how many total actions you lose, possibly over multiple turns, from being stunned. Each time you regain actions, reduce the number you regain by your stunned value, then reduce your stunned value by the number of actions you lost. For example, if you were stunned 4, you would lose all 3 of your actions on your turn, reducing you to stunned 1; on your next turn, you would lose 1 more action, and then be able to use your remaining 2 actions normally. Stunned might also have a duration instead, such as “stunned for 1 minute,” causing you to lose all your actions for the duration.
Emphasis added to the part most important here. You still can't use Restorative Recollection to reduce your stunned value, because if you have any stunned value, you can't act. By the time you can act once more, your stunned value will have disappeared.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thousands of posts in possibly dozens of threads have given their lives to argue this point and whether "you can't act" is a bar on actions or some flavor text running long. Paizo may resolve this before or in PF3, but I doubt it.
My impression is that most Paizo authors turning in product are treating it as flavor or unaware of the issue, while most GMs engaging on these forums (and maybe on Reddit, ew) are doing the opposite.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As Xenocrat has mentioned, the condition is subject to a lot of discussion thus it is a GM call. It would be lovely if the PF2 team could release a FAQ entry about it - personally considering the various cases this could happen, getting stunned during your turn is way too brutal to be applied like this.
Also, that title is at the very least not very respectful, you might want to reflect on that.
This is a playtest, minor changes to how the rules are structured, and how exceptions are written will likely get sorted out in time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
IDK this one seems pretty easy, specific beats general.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Specific beats general" I think works a bit differently: when a specific rule contradicts a more general rule, the specific rule takes precedence and overrides the general rule; it does not have the GM invent new rules to accommodate what's missing in the specific rule. If a mechanic lets you add a modifier to a flat check, that's a case of "specific beats general", because even though flat checks typically can't have modifiers added to them, this one explicitly states otherwise. By contrast, the problem with Restorative Recollection is that by the time you can reduce your stunned value, i.e. after your regain your actions and can use actions, your stunned value is gone, so it simply does not work as written. The only way to make it work is to assume that this action not only lets you act while stunned, but also has you act out of turn before you regain your actions, using the actions you're about to regain: if this is truly the case, then it's confusing and ought to change, and if not then this is something that should be errata'd. "GM call it" is not an appropriate counter to feedback on a poorly-written playtest mechanic either, as we should not be expecting the GM to just cover for these badly-written rules in the finished product when they could be fixed instead.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You have no choice but to GM call it until something changes.
Gee, I hadn't thought of that! All this time, I'd been doing nothing but sit on my hands in this playtest, hold up my play sessions, and wait for Paizo to fix every problem in the ruleset before carrying on. /s
Less facetiously: yes, I have in fact been house ruling that Restorative Recollection is a free action triggered when you regain actions while stunned/slowed, minus the free RK, and with the stipulation that you can use this effect while stunned. This is a significant buff to the effect, but is also what allows it to trigger when it's supposed to. Pointing out the obvious fact that this effect has to be houseruled to work as intended is, once again, completely irrelevant to the purpose of this thread, which is to highlight a problem with Restorative Recollection that ought to be errata'd in the future.
I can't see "You can't act" applying unless you've hit stunned 3 or higher. It means "you can't act... on actions that have been stunned"
There is no need for the rest of the text to be there if all it had to say was "you can't act for a number of rounds equal to your stun value". It explicitly says you can use the rest of your actions if the stun value doesn't come in increments by 3.
Uppercutus Maximus Stuns Booky the wizard with stunning fist and he critically fails
Booky is Stunned 3
Booky's turn starts. He's stunned 3 he has no actions. If he has an action to clear the stunned condition he can't use it.
But if Uppercutus had a way of imposing stunned 5. Booky gets hits, loses one round. next round he has 1 action. If he has a 1 action ability to clear stunned, he gets 2 actions.
Reading it the other way is the same RAW IS LAW logic problem that every sentence must be correct in a vaccuum that neigh inevitably reads to the wrong reading.
hmmm.. Question. If you clear the stun do you get your actions back?
I can't see "You can't act" applying unless you've hit stunned 3 or higher. It means "you can't act... on actions that have been stunned"
There is no need for the rest of the text to be there if all it had to say was "you can't act for a number of rounds equal to your stun value". It explicitly says you can use the rest of your actions if the stun value doesn't come in increments by 3.
Reactions and free actions are also disabled while you can't act, same as being unconscious which also states "you can't act". Effectively, if you're stunned and it's not your turn, you can't take reactions either. It's pretty unambiguous, and is a necessary supplement to the action subtraction. In any case, it means Restorative Recollection's action to reduce stunned doesn't work on multiple levels.
Question. If you clear the stun do you get your actions back?
No.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I wonder if it would work better to split Restorative Recollection up into a reaction and free action.
Reaction
trigger you gain the slowed or stunned condition.
Decrease your stunned value by 2 or slowed value by 1.
Free action
If you lost an action this turn due to the stunned or slowed condition, you can Recall Knowledge with any skill you are trained in, despite being stunned or slowed.
Not sure if this is how it was intended to work, it makes you semi-immune to Slowed 1 or Sturned 1 or 2 as long as you have a reaction left. But this way you only get the extra condition reduction once, so less effective against higher stunned values. If Restorative Recollection removes the condition before your turn as a reaction you don't also get to do the free recall action, but with higher condition values you might end up with a free recall action for several turns.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would still specify that the reaction would let you act while stunned, but otherwise that looks like it could be one way of addressing the current problem, yes! Here's another way you could do it:
So you'd basically always get to Sustain your quantum field and RK with this action, without flat-out making yourself immune to the slowed condition.