Would you waive the "Must be with a character at least 1 level higher than you" requirement for 20th level?


Advice

Scarab Sages

This isn't for a game, just looking for some advice as I only just noticed this requirement in the retraining rules (always just used GP, days as the requirement.).

Many choices you make about your class features can be retrained. It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature. Training requires spending time with a character of your class whose class level is at least 1 higher than yours and who has the class feature you want. For example, if you are a 5th-level illusionist wizard and want to become a necromancer, you must train with a necromancer of at least 6th level.

This would mean any choices at 20th level are permanent and as you go higher in level it gets harder and harder to change them. Given retraining is really just that to let characters change something they feel was a mistake would you waive the level requirement especially at twentieth level where there can't be someone of higher level since it doesn't exist?

I know high level play is rare, never gotten to twentieth as GM or player just wondering for future preperation.


"Some retraining options require you to work with a trainer. If no suitable trainer is available, the GM might allow you to retrain yourself by spending twice the normal time. Even if you train yourself, you must still pay the cost for training (though you don’t double the cost as you do the time). Any option that requires a trainer also requires some kind of training facility for that activity (such as a Dojo—see Rooms)."

There is one paragraph under retraining related to training without suitable trainer

Scarab Sages

happykj wrote:

"Some retraining options require you to work with a trainer. If no suitable trainer is available, the GM might allow you to retrain yourself by spending twice the normal time. Even if you train yourself, you must still pay the cost for training (though you don’t double the cost as you do the time). Any option that requires a trainer also requires some kind of training facility for that activity (such as a Dojo—see Rooms)."

There is one paragraph under retraining related to training without suitable trainer

I read that as not available rather than not possible. That is if you are a level 7 monk and there's no level 8 monks around you can train by yourself as a dojo. If your level 20 there can't be a level 21 monk ever. Semantics, I do prefer your reading of since there can't be a level 21 monk see GM if they'll allow self training.


It's the same result, no level 8 monk since they all got purged\died\max level is 7 - still end up with no level 8 monk.

There was no call for why you can't find a teacher, only that you can't.


I would not waive it. As pointed out, there's a mechanic in place. It just takes more effort. And I feel that's fair.


If we are talking about the rules the book says “available”. If there is no character that is 1 level higher, that means that a character 1 level higher is not available. So, RAW the second paragraph should apply.

If you are looking for options I would consider an appropriate outsider as a substitute. This would be really appropriate for classes that are granted power from a divine source, but could also work for other classes.

One thing to consider though is that a 20th level character is basically the pinnacle of a class. Someone who has achieved that level may find it difficult to retrain. Some capstone abilities alter a character in a physical way. A 20th level monk actually becomes an outsider; some sorcerer bloodlines also alter the character. What happens to those characters when they retain a level to a different class? By the rules they lose the capstone, but does that really make sense?


Hourglass of Transfiguration

Although Metagame Artifact seems pointless for most of the time


My thoughts are since there are no level 21 characters, therefore you will not be able to find or use one, therefore training times are doubled due to lack of a higher level trainer. This has been mentioned in thread already. I agree with that.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Would you waive the "Must be with a character at least 1 level higher than you" requirement for 20th level? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.