Yonman |
Pizza Lord |
No. The associated skill points are meant to be the extra skill points gained retroactively from the Intelligence increase (in one skill per +2 of the headband). As you can see, in the sidebar notation in the link you posted.
If I wear a headband of vast intelligence, do I get retroactive skill ranks for my Int increase in addition to the skill ranks associated with the item?
No. The skill associated with the magic item represents the “retroactive” skill ranks you’d get from the item increasing your Intelligence. You don’t get the item’s built-in skill ranks and another set to assign however you want.
Source
Azothath |
essentially you assign a (Int based) skill and a language to the headband. Since it is an open choice consult your GM to get his okay.
It is usually good to choose something thematic like Know(history) & ancient osirani, or Craft(armor) & dwarven, or {silly} Linguistics and many (HD+1) languages. Knowledge skills are considered the default and you should choose an Int based skill.
No extra skill points (as they go into the chosen skill & language). Creatures wearing the headband do get to apply the enhc bonus (+1 for an Int +2 headband) to other Int based skills.
Valandil Ancalime |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
essentially you assign a (Int based) skill and a language to the headband. Since it is an open choice consult your GM to get his okay.
It is usually good to choose something thematic like Know(history) & ancient osirani, or Craft(armor) & dwarven, or {silly} Linguistics and many (HD+1) languages. Knowledge skills are considered the default and you should choose an Int based skill.
No extra skill points (as they go into the chosen skill & language). Creatures wearing the headband do get to apply the enhc bonus (+1 for an Int +2 headband) to other Int based skills.
It can be any skill, it doesn't need to be an Int skill.
Pizza Lord |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
[rant]
What irks me is that crafting one doesn't even require a single skill rank in the assigned skill(s). That just seems obnoxious to me (especially considering that they allow crafters to ignore requirements with a minor penalty). Is it so unreasonable to think someone creating an item that imbues the knowledge of smithing should have 1, 2, or even 5 ranks of Craft?
[/rant]
Diego Rossi |
[rant]
What irks me is that crafting one doesn't even require a single skill rank in the assigned skill(s). That just seems obnoxious to me (especially considering that they allow crafters to ignore requirements with a minor penalty). Is it so unreasonable to think someone creating an item that imbues the knowledge of smithing should have 1, 2, or even 5 ranks of Craft?
[/rant]
The problem with the headband is bookkeeping. To reduce it Paizo has adopted this simplistic solution.
The worst part is that, for a relatively small cost, at a high level, it is possible to get several Headbands of Vast Intelligence +2 and become able to swap skills ranks as needed.It is not RAW, but the best way to manage it (that I have found) is to have it bestow skill points that will be assigned the normal way, but that requires careful bookkeeping, registering how the skill points added by the headband are used, and making them unavailable (but still present) while it isn't in use.
Do you remove the headband? The skill points become unavailable.
Do you swap it for another? The skill points already used are fixed. If it is more powerful you get more points to assign.
I don't particularly like how Automatic Bonus Progression works. Still, the part about substituting the belts and headbands with an increase in the character statistic is something that I have adopted. Doing that removes this problem.
OmniMage |
I've considered making a magic item that gave skill ranks (so I wouldn't need to keep changing headbands), but I can't seem to price it right. The problem is a basic +2 int headband is really cheap (4000 gp). A ring with a +5 competence skill bonus is 2500 gp, but +10 is 10000 gp, and +20 is 40000 gp. A +2 int headband is a scaling magic item; the skill ranks part that is.
Belafon |
The worst part is that, for a relatively small cost, at a high level, it is possible to get several Headbands of Vast Intelligence +2 and become able to swap skills ranks as needed.
I've never seen this as an issue in actual play. The skill ranks aren't granted until the headband has been worn for 24 hours. Which means you really can only use this "trick" when there is no time pressure.
Belafon |
I've considered making a magic item that gave skill ranks (so I wouldn't need to keep changing headbands), but I can't seem to price it right. The problem is a basic +2 int headband is really cheap (4000 gp). A ring with a +5 competence skill bonus is 2500 gp, but +10 is 10000 gp, and +20 is 40000 gp. A +2 int headband is a scaling magic item; the skill ranks part that is.
GMs should do what is best for their game, I don't have the right to tell anyone how to play, magic item creation is art as much as science, etc.
Don't forget that competence bonuses stack with the skill ranks from a headband. So why not do both? That's one reason why I think skill bonuses from magic items should cap at +5. And should be competence bonuses only. (Yes, there are published items that break both those "rules.") While I do think it's fun and clever to come up with ways to do things cheaply while staying within the item creation rules, it definitely alters the way the game plays out in practice.
Azothath |
commentary
The PF1 CRB is cribbed from DnD3.5 so there are going to be some issues along with those from simplification of RAW and then failures in reading comprehension (even in this thread).
Everyone's aware of Magic Item Creation Table advice and yeah, it's a mix of art & pedantic methodologies.
I'd agree that the wondrous item competence bonuses should be capped at +5, they're cheap and it's sensible. Artifacts are a authorial miracle.
I don't view headbands or belts that grant enhancement to ability scores as cheap. They're pretty spot on if not expensive later(squaring is too much but it's simplistic). Due to common challenge design and physical scores having more mechanical impact they should cost more than the mental ability scores.
Belafon |
Due to common challenge design and physical scores having more mechanical impact they should cost more than the mental ability scores.
Mental ability bonuses add to spell DCs and spells per day. . .
I mean, you can go down this long rabbit hole of arguing that even pure casters can benefit at least a little bit from every physical stat but pure martials only benefit from Wisdom unless they have put skill points into Int or Cha skills. So physical score boosters should cost more.
And then you counter-argue that while the martials have to spend money on weapons and armor, the pure casters only care about their spellcasting and don't have those expenses. So mental score boosters should cost more.
Pretty sure if you ask a player, the answer to "which should cost more" is going to depend on the individual's preferred class and build. So the same cost is probably the rationally balanced choice.
Azothath |
Azothath wrote:Commentary ... Due to common challenge design and physical scores having more mechanical impact they should cost more than the mental ability scores.... I mean, you can go down this long rabbit hole. ...
exactly why it is commentary. After the 4th or 5th post the thread derailed into commentary.
If you want to discuss the topic, start a thread in General or Homebrew forum as I'm more comfortable discussing design issues there.