Optimizing Class DC - Which classes have the best Class DC progression?


Advice


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Which classes have the best Class DC progression? And how can we best take advantage of it?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Snare Crafter archetype to make snares with much higher snare DCs. (In Remaster the archetype makes your snare save DCs use your class DC without the need for a 10th-level feat.)

Wasn't there something with thaumaturge and magical item DCs as well? Could that be poached via multiclassing feats?


Casters, as they usually use their Spell DC instead.
Class DCs all go to Master, none to Legendary. They are aligned with Magus/Summoner spell DCs.


I don't think spell DCs work for the kinds of tricks Ravingdork is talking about, though.

And all that's coming to mind for me are to look at kineticist, and maybe the commander and the SF2E soldier, who all go to legendary with class DC.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Indeed, I would rather keep the focus on things that rely on the Class DC alone.

Ravingdork wrote:
Wasn't there something with thaumaturge and magical item DCs as well? Could that be poached via multiclassing feats?

Darn. Intensify Investiture is level 12, meaning it can't be poached via multiclass feats.

So go with kineticist or perhaps one of the newer claseses if you want high DCs, and perhaps with thaumaturge if you want to have your DCs apply to more things (such as snares AND magical items).


SuperBidi wrote:

Casters, as they usually use their Spell DC instead.

Class DCs all go to Master, none to Legendary. They are aligned with Magus/Summoner spell DCs.

Not a caster, but Kineticist class DC goes 1 trained/7 expert/16 master/19 legendary


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The commander will probably go to legendary on class DC as well, and that would really make a lot of sense for stuff like the snarecrafter archetype.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really like the mental image of a commander or soldier standing at one end of a hallway, grinning as some enemies round the corner.

"Come down this hall, I dare you. I double-dog dare you. Oh, this weapon? You don't need to worry about it. See? I'm even pointing it at the floor."


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It seems Battle Harbinger from Divine Mysteries also gets Legendary Class DC at level 19.

But how to take advantage of it? What are some great abilities or combos that rely on class DC?


SuperBidi wrote:

Casters, as they usually use their Spell DC instead.

Class DCs all go to Master, none to Legendary. They are aligned with Magus/Summoner spell DCs.

Only for effects that specify you can use either.

For anything else they have the worst Class DC as it never goes beyond Trained.


Ravingdork wrote:

It seems Battle Harbinger from Divine Mysteries also gets Legendary Class DC at level 19.

But how to take advantage of it? What are some great abilities or combos that rely on class DC?

Kobold/Dragonblood breath? Some crit specs.


This won't be an exhaustive list but...

Dragons breath. (dedications or ancestory, but the human one doesn't scale)

Alchemist get scaling DC for their infused alchemical items.

Some Relic seed abilities

Invested Investiture (lvl 12 Thau feat so you can use class DC instead of item DC)

Scroll Thaumaturgy (lvl 1 feat, same effect as invested Investiture)

Feathered Flechette (lvl 8 feat from Winged Warrior, use class DC. Most of the archetype works this way)

Various abilities from the Vampire, Ghoul and Zombie archetype

Alkenstar Agent feats

Alter Ego feat

This is a start, I'll add more later.

As you can see, some of these are pretty useful, allowing that class DC to be useful in a variety of ways, but definitely requires some system mastery to notice. For most people, the relic seeds scaling DCs will be the most interesting additions.


To answer the OP's questions: the absolute best class DC progression you can get is trained/expert/master/legendary at levels 1/7/15/19 respectively, which you can find on the Battle Harbinger, Commander (still in playtesting), Kineticist, and Starfinder's Soldier (still in playtesting). These are the same levels at which spell proficiency increases for most spellcasters, so if there's anything that uses the higher of your class DC or spell DC, you'll do equally well at it with one of these classes as with a full caster.

The Thaumaturge does get to use their spell DC to cast spells from scrolls with Scroll Thaumaturgy, but the feat specifically uses their Thaumaturge class DC, so no using your legendary class DC there. The same goes for Intensify Investiture, so even if you were able to get the feat via the multiclass archetype, you still wouldn't be able to use another class DC for it.

There are, however, a handful of interesting uses for a high class DC:

  • Critical specialization effects are probably the most obvious use case.
  • If you have the Ostilli Host Dedication feat, you can make a single-action Reflex save with your legendary class DC to deal an additional 5d6 piercing damage, which could be situationally good.
  • If you're willing to include material from the Starfinder 2e playtest, there are two new weapon traits that let you make an AoE attack using your weapon, which uses your class DC for the Reflex save. Grenades and missiles use this same AoE attack, the Dragon Gland augmentation lets you make a breath attack that uses your class DC for the Reflex save, and the cairn form spell lets you stun enemies on a crit with your unarmed attack using your class DC for its Fortitude save.

    This is perhaps grounds for another thread, but considering how few things there are that specifically use class DC, a lot of things that use class DC and spell DC interchangeably, and a lot of overlap between the things class DC is used for and spells, you could conceivably house rule that all classes, casters included, just get a scaling class DC instead of a spell DC, and use that for any DC that isn't a specific, hard-set DC. This'd simplify things quite a bit in a way that would somewhat buff martial classes under specific circumstances (you'd get better spell proficiency if you picked a spellcaster dedication), and avoid cases like the Magus picking a feat that gives them a crit spec they don't have the class DC to actually put to use (i.e. Arcane Fists).

  • Dark Archive

    5 people marked this as a favorite.

    There are a few posts on reddit where people asked the same thing with respect to the kineticist who has the best class DC progression.

    Q1: Who has the best?

    Kineticist, Battle Harbinger, Commander are the three classes/options that scale to legendary at the same rate as a caster's (harbinger actually goes to expert at L5 which is strictly better).

    After them are 'caster martials' like ranger, monk, thaumaturge, gunslinger.

    Then the rest of the martials.

    Then casters who generally have no class DC.

    Q2:Who has Class DC options

    Lets do this lol its a lot:

    Ancestries
    - Tengu Feather Fan (L5 Feat) lets you cast any ancestry spells with class DC (think electric arc or higher level lightning bolts, etc.)

    - Talos versatile heritage has 2 reactions (1 L1, 1 at L5) that require class DCs to dazzle or reflect back damage to enemies.

    - The Reflection Versatile Heritage has 2-3 feats that have similair class DC options to cause debuffs

    - Dragonblood versatile heritage/kobold dragon breaths. You could legitimately pick up both (both have upgrades at L9 as well to boost damaged dice and pad out the 1d4 cooldown). Dragonblood also has a great L13 1 action 20ft fear spell (no cooldown, but only works once per creature per 24 hours).

    - Automoton - Rain of bolts feat

    - Nagaji - have a few feats, a L1 hypnotic gaze/lure feat and L13 snake pit feat.

    - Ifrit ancestry - has a few feats at various levels (radiant burst at L13, blazing aura at L17.

    - Elemental Heart Dwarf heritage energy emenation feature

    - Sukri Latern has two abilities with Class DC

    - Strix L9 gust of wind spell

    - Anandi L9 venom feat (makes them flatfooted for 1 round, but I don't think you get to use the venom that much). As well as a L13 webslinger feat that casts a L2 web spell for 3 actions.

    - Beastkin Animal magic feat

    - Duskwarden - L13 calcatta showstopper (synaptic static), L17 Yamaraj's Grandeur

    - Fleshwarp - gaping flesh reaction

    - Poppet - Histrionic Injury reaction

    - Kholo - L13 bonekeeper's bane (basically passive malediction for enemies that are adjacent to you lol)

    - Kobold - L9 fleeing shriek

    - Merfolk - L13 pummelling whirlpool

    - Leshy - L9 Sporecloud

    - Tripkee - Poison heritage reaction

    Archetypes

    - Ostilli Host is the king with a 1 action scaling electric arc cantrip. The DPR really boosts at L8 with two targets then again with another L8 feat to boost the damage dice.

    - Snarecrafter in remaster got class DC right away so its great. RAW tiny PCs don't set off their own traps so you can kite enemies into things by 'running through the square'

    - Chronoskimmer - you get a class DC ability in the dedication.

    - The Harrower - L6 vengful deck 'gambit' card throwing ability.

    - Trick Driver - roadkill ability

    - Clawdancer - 2-3 feats (tendon rend, the ranged attack feather one, etc.)

    - Celebrity - L10 debut feat

    - Ghost - Frightful moan (mini fear spell once per 10 minutes)

    - Swarmkeeper - various abilities, but from what I remember this archetype is nearly impossible to use.

    - Were Creature - 2xL6 feats (one for rats and tigers) and a L10 feat (mostly keyoff crits)

    Familiars

    - Faerie Dragon/Fey Dragonet has a great debuff breath

    - Calligraphy Wyrm Ink ability

    - Ceru fortune ability

    - Dwemorcat Cub's reaction to evocation spells

    - Elemental Scamp breath weapon

    - Nosoi's haunting melody ability

    - Polong's possession ability

    Anyways. Try this AON query and have fun. Its too long a list lol.


    Vishkanya's innate venom uses class or spell DC. Sadly, no way to make this work for Kineticist, but could be interesting on a martially-inclined caster.

    Hungerseed versatile heritage gets a version of the Dragonblood cone attack.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Latest legendary addition: Runesmith!

    Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Optimizing Class DC - Which classes have the best Class DC progression? All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.