Spells Discussion


Playtest General Discussion


Let's talk spells. For damage I'm assuming Fireball as a baseline (2d6 per rank, 20' radius, no debuffs) when comparing other options.

Absolute Zero: Weaker than damage baseline, but good slow/immobilize debuffs.

Adhere: Great cantrip, one action to create GREATER difficult terrain. Can also be used to make a door stuck shut or a key object hard to grab for the opposition.

Akashic Download: Pocket Library, with some hand issues. Put a commlink on a uniclamp to avoid this.

Akashic Revival: I've loved every version of this spell going back to Occult Mysteries in PF1, but putting a three action cast on this is a mistake. You don't want your occult caster face tanking all the HP damage every round (well, I don't). A ten minute casting time like Teleport might be appropriate - restore your immortality between fights only.

Analyze Target: I love all the indefensible circumstance bonuses in this playtest, but I cannot defend them. Great power creep for maxxing Treat Wounds and Recall Knowledge results. It should probably be status.

ATOMIC BLAST!!!: Obscene, grotesque, a crime against humanity and a triumph of playtest game design. Baseline damage in a HUGE area, but the easy dazzle/blind effects (with no incapacitation!) and the (presumably NOT spell DC?) fast radiation effects (good luck running out of the death zone, blind for a full minute people) make this spell too much. I'm glad I got to imagine using it, though. Don't let a GM use it against me.

Cairn Form: It's fine I guess, but why does the Precog get this as a granted spell?

Call Cosmos: This is more appropriate than Atomic Blast for a 9th level spell.

Carcinization: I acknowledge the meme spell. It's one of several examples of overlapping statuses that I'm not sure I see the point of. I guess stupefied adds something to sickened for casters, but does clumsy?

Caustic Conversion: Not great, Bob. Attack spells have started vanishing from Player Core 1/2, but they are experiencing a revival in this book. I do not approve.

Cellular Stimulant: I might trade an action and a 1st rank slot to give an ally one round of quickened, but would he accept at the cost of 10 minutes of fatigue? I have doubts unless he's already suffering a broad status effect, then maybe.

Chrono Push: I'm not spending a 5th rank spell to knock someone around for not great damage. Another spell attack (with basic save for the followon collision damage). No crit benefit, either.

Control Machine: Dominate, but one for tech trait and one level lower, also works on hazards so you can run through the laser hallway or tell the trash compactor to open the door I guess. Seems fine.

Corrosive Haze: Cloudkill returns, but acid and destroying objects. Good area denial or damge if they don't/can't move, which synergizes with some Witchwarper quantum field builds.

Death Sentence: Finger of Death renamed (I forget what PC1 renamed it to). Still good.

Delete: Utility spell, so hard to take. Relevant to Gap related Witchwarpers, who have a focus spell that includes its effects as well as much more.

Destruction Protocol: No, I will not use a level capped (summon X progression) incapacitation spell (pointless trait, the level targeting restriction means it'll never matter) to try to steal/direct one rounds worth of actions from one tech creature/construct. Remove the level list or incapacitation. Preferably the former.

Detect Thoughts: Cantrip useful for interogations or lie detecting, but not Subtle, so you better be the cops if you want to use it without getting punched. The telepathy detector function has potential use identifying people disguised as nontelepathic races, but fringe.

Discharge: Seems fine, not great.

Doom Scroll: This needed to be nerfed, but incapacitation wasn't the right way. At some point why are you heightening this instead of casting Fear 3? Doomed doesn't matter on monsters, and c'mon with this fascination with Fascination, Paizo.

Eldritch Lance: TKP, but for mental damae. Sure, this can exist, and divine needs more stuff.

Eldritch Wrath: Nice flavor, low damage, good debuff on fail/crit fail. Decent damage scaling even though it starts low. It's fine.

Entropy Strike: I don't like attack, I don't like the effect swap between living/tech targets, and the tech effects seem pretty weak.

Event Horizon: A bigger slightly less damaging basic aoe with a good chance to inflict stunned and/or slowed. The WW with the anchor that reduces stunned/slowed will say FINALLY if he crit fails this 10th rank spell. Who's laughing now?

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More Monday.


Explosion of Rot: Slightly less powerful fireball, but poison, enfeebled debuff, and potential persistent damage on crit fail. As is often with the case of these pretty good spells - why is this on a witchwarper anomaly granted list, particularly Gap? Was the gap caused by a cosmic mind fungus?!?

Feline Senses: Darkvision plus one or two imprecise senses at a good 1 hour duration, well worth it for a 3rd level spell.

Flashfire: Half damage, small, sustained fireball with hazardous terrain and crit fail persisten damage. It can also can provide concealed and grows while sustained. Good area denial if you have the actions (it takes three to cast, making it tough on witchwarpers who want to trap people in a quantum field with the appropriate feat - precogs have it granted and therefore easier), but you might not. Great to ruin the days of fire weak guys who need to move through an area.

Genetic Regeneration: The 8 healing per round isn't why you're here on a 4th rank spell, you want the "don't die" clause when not facing fire or acid damage. All mystics have access to this and arguably have better ways to keep their allies from dying, others can get this via the Regenerative Rune Splice augmentation for a one per day panic button.

Glow Up: A SF1 cantrip is now a heighten 1st level spell that only helps with Make an Impression checks and speeding up Gather Information. (Has the 10 minutes vs 1 hour of the score of abilities has published to do this ever mattered?) Naw. Buff, delete, or have it ignored by all players.

Gravity Field: Similar to other spells in PF2 (8th rank column to drag fliers down and provide difficult terraint), but the gravity shift from normal to high will be crippling to many (half speed on top of (greater) difficult terrain). Swapping from zero-g to light gravity may be helpful to some, but at this level you should have that sorted.

Gravity Tether: I hate this. Attack roll, one or two targets, lame damage, and I get to pull them marginally closer? Why?

Holographic Memory: Speak With Dead, but better (you can get memories out of a living creature). Still uncommon and the GM decides how helpful a memory you get, so not really a big deal, but I like it.

Howl: I think this is a SF1 reprint? Good damage, but a big 30' emanation that will hit your allies who can hear (noise canceling headphones when?). I like the collective enemy feedback damage from numerous howlers and the denial of spellcasting and auditory actions to enemies still howling. You can really mess certain foes up with this.

Implant Data: This is a fun out of combat cantrip (leave digital graffiti, messages of rebellion, or secret messages on various computers) but I need it on a device or prepared caster.

Inject Nanobots: I didn't like it in SF1, I don't like it here. Attack roll, touch range, single target, very basic damage (one bonus d6 on a slotted spell?!), and just 1 round confuse on crit. It would be lame with range and a little more damage, it's just embarassing as is.

Injury Echo: It's Daze, but against P/F/B instead of mental, and on a fail (not crit!) it takes persistent bleed if anyone tags it with that same damage type before the end of your turn. So you can cast, shoot once, and still have opportunities next round to trigger this all by yourself.

Interesting, but it's still Daze damage, requires a fail, requires physical damage types in use, requires bleed damage to matter.


Instant Virus: They really love touch range spells, but at least this one is a save (fortitude, alas). Decent results for a 2nd rank spell. A success still takes glitching 1, failure is stunned 1 and glitching 1, and CF is glitching 2 and stunned 2.

Irradiate: This spell is disgusting, horrific, cruel, and unconscionable. I love it. 1 hour duration, immediate onset, 1 round intervals? 20' radius? The damage isn't bad until the 9th level heighten (then half fireball), but if you stay there you're going to be sickened 1-3 as you fail saves, and die on your fourth failed save. So you've got to move out of the area. Since it uses your spell DC, you don't even need to heighten if you just want the sicken debuff to potentially build and the threat of that death lingering over anyone who tries to stay.

Life Seal: Emergency protection against sudden vaccum, temperature, or radiation, at a high price in 3rd spell rank and only 1 minute duration. Better have consumables to draw/activate or retreat from the danger. Gets MUCH more useable at 4th rank with 4 creatures and 6 hour duration. I foresee many casters adding it to their spells there.

Light Scour: Fireball damage to undead in the big area, near fireball healing to living in area, also counteracts darkness. Damage scales great, healing scales fine, not that you have many ranks to heighten it.

Logic Bomb: Not really a combat spell, but maybe you can protect your comm links and datapads (or your GM can use them on sophisticated opponents) against skill abilities or spells that try to influence them for things like alternate feints with a bad Computers skill roll or a save on a Doom Scroll spell.

Measure: Huh, Sustain lets you get the EXACT measurements (or weight) of an object. I guess they were tired of people laughing at Approximate.

Metamorphose: 1 minute natural attack. But it's actually apparently to cast on enemies and make them lose their held weapons/items, because there's no way an ally would want this. No incapacitate, although they can make saves every turn to shake it off. I hated it at first when I saw it as a party buff, but now I kind of like it. Short range, though, so no enemy snipers are going to be reduced to knife hands.

Mind Skewer: Terrible! It's literally the Eldtrich Land cantrip but 60 range, will save instead of attack, and stupefied 2 on a crit fail.You won't heighten it for the damage, and if you want to inflict stupefied the Stupefy spell beats it handily on results and duration, only suffering on 30' range.

Motivating Ringtone: Soothe but better, requires a comm unit. I like these harmless little upgrades that depend on having a tech item.

New Game: Three spells in one as a 10th rank spell Quandry (computers/perception to escape), a good 8th rank spell, is wrapped in this as an option. So is Fated Confrontation, a bad 10th rank spell that is in no way a power creep to shove in here. Finally, you can use it duck yourself and any number of allies out of combat for 1 hour of subject time to do healing, refocusing, and repairing, while 1 minute passes in the real world.

Oddly you cast this on a computer that has a videogame installed on it as a locus, and you can yourself be drawn into the video game. Fine, it's magic.

I like this spell a lot, especially the "hol' up, imma take a time out" version. I guess you risk your enemies wandering off or setting up some nasty traps/spells while you're gone, though.

Overheat: Ok, they finally did a 2d6/rank single target right. Reflex save, and on a fail extra damage almost equivalent to 50% if they don't choose to drop their equipment. Very nice, especially if they have a weakness.


IOverload Systems: Fireball damage in a 30' emanation (friendly fire problems), and F/CF inflict glitching. Missing a heighten entry.[/] Should it have one? Strong as a damage plus debuff, but maybe hard to target, and the damage will fall away at later levels.

Personal Gravity: This spell and the zero-gravity rules [i]mention clumsy without a value. One needs to be added probably in the gravity rules, or a different condition than clumsy mentioned if that's not what was intended. Otherwise this is fine as a solution to a problem you'll have. There's a magic item I would prefer to get when I can, though.

Phantasmal Fleet: Huge area, substandard mental damage, and only does a questionable secondary effect (forced to move to take cover and maintain action to take cover) on a crit fail. References "stops fleeing or cowering," but fleeing is a condition that this spell doesn't inflict - you can simply move to cover to fulfill its requirements.

Pocket Vacuum: Persistent but short range bludgeoning fireball that forces enemies to hold their breath (presumably they can wait until they have an action on their next turn) and can inflict persistent bludgeoning (should it end when they leave the area? Seems like it).

Very strong, especially on a witchwarper who has Quantum Entanglement to keep people from escaping their QF.

Promession: A somewhat weaker disintegration, you hit a target with cold damage as an attack, then they save against additional sonic. No deleting cubes, and no save result change form a crit on the attack roll. But a better result than disintegrate if you hit and they then crit succeeed or succeed their save. If they fail you're equal, if they crit fail disintegrate would be better.

Recharge Weapon: This does extend until your next round, so you can consistently fire 2/4 actions split across rounds/turns. Nice to exist, but I wouldn't plan to need it or take up a cantrip known. Niche use when have a reload 2 weapon and want just one more shot?

Reorient: Good melee support against off-guard, but will you use it enough vs other cantrip options? I want to know/have 20 cantrips, personally.

Richochet: Speaking of, it's Electric Arc, but force damage and arcane/divine. In a world of robots, don't be so quick to forsake EA. But then there's holographic incorporeals to join the ghosts, so.

Rocket Dash: It's pretty good as a damaging escape (or entry with a quantum field aura). Stride twice with no reactions, do a fire equivalent of Lightning Bolt +1d12, crit fails are dazzled and take persistent. Precogs and three different gods love this spell.

Root of All Pain: touch, but save. A rare primal only. Hard to describe, but I find it weak, basically doing the equivalent of mental persistent damage that can't be shaken off or ended, and potentially slowed or paralyzed if it takes enough damage over time. The damage on a success is easily ignored at this level, and the slowed effect on failure will typically take three rounds before it happens, and the crit failure paralyzed will be great if it happens, but even there you're just barely likely trigger to trigger it in two rounds, three won't be uncommon. That's a long time to wait.

Needs more oomph, or at least a range to make a lackluster spell less dangerous to the caster.


Scan Environment: Seems kind of powerful for a cantrip to deetect some of these environmental hazards from 20 miles away, but in practice won't matter and is a good story smoother for those who invest. The 1-3 action variability is absurd, no one will ever cast this spell in combat where it would matter how long it takes.

Seek the Stars: Know Direction, but in Space!!! In space no one can hear you scream about how relatively useless this seems.

Selective Invisibility: Invisibility against everyone but one target who can see you, and you can attack them. Want to avoid attention from scrubs while you focus on the boss? This spell lets you do that. Interesting option.

Share Pain: Single target normal blast with clumsy riders. Missing duration for clumsy. Probably one round. Weird heightening, it's basically only useful at rank 3 and 6 (multitarget) and then the damage part falls off. Would benefit from +1d12 heightening at all ranks.

Shifting Surge: AWFUL. If it were one action I'd accept it as way to swap damage types to avoid immunity or trigger a weakness. (Once? For a slot? Ouch.) But such a sad d6 bonus damage. Look, I know the assumption is I'm casting this on an operative's weapon, but with the best proficiency in the world and advantage on the roll a d6 enhancement is not worth a 1st rank spell slot. Why not just cast Force Barrage? See also Supercharge spell.

Sift the Sphere: It's augury, heightenable to Read the Omens, which is nice. The analyst WW gets both, which I guess is ok because otherwise he'd have to signature this one or learn it separately.

Singularity Seed: I think this is my favorite spell. Definitely best version of a singularity spell (this is at least the third, and I think fourth) in a Paizo game. Is the void damage inside supposed to be a basic save or just 10d10 unavoidable every round? If a save, is it reflex like to avoid getting pulled in/towards the singularity, or something else?

Skim Data: I guess these spells should exist in the setting, but you won't learn them.

Skyfire Wings: Fly and fire natural attack, but you drop and can't hold items. Heightens to scale weapon dice but not accuracy. No thanks.

Slice Reality: It's Wall of Fire, but for void damage. It provides cover, otherwise ho hum.

Sonic Scream: Same as PF2 version.

Soul surge: Bad. Attack roll, basic scaling with just a flat non scaling 2d6 on top of that, and you either suffer HP damage to cast it or feed it a lot of points from a vitality bond. Seriously. Eldritch Lance does the same, all this gets you for a slot is +7 damage (non scaling), spirit instead of mental, and drained 1 on a critical hit. Stick with the cantrip.

Scan Computers: This seems like a way to bypass hacking and security systems by casting a two action 5th rank spell. Maybe that's something the system wants to happen, but I feel like with Akashic Revival a longer 1 or 10 minute cast time might be a good balancing factor. That way you either killed everything or performed exceptional stealth before trivializing the tech security aspects of the computer.

Stumble: Ranged (100') infliction of off-guard if they fail a reflex save. I could see doing this to mark clumsy targets for your ranged martials if you don't have an envoy. Sucks if you burn two actions and they save though with nothing to show for it.

Subjective Reality: I still love it, it still makes you mostly immune to one target, who is totally immune to your direct effects and any spells. What's always been intersting is that you can move through your target, and an "object" can be a target. A door is surely an object. Is a wall? A prison? (I have 500' range.) Can I cast it and walk through the entire newly transparent facility until I reach who/what I'm looking for? (It is then immune for 24 hours, so I better Translocate myself out.)

Summon Robot: I'll withold my disappointment until I actually see the robots.

Supercharge Weapon: TERRIBLE. See shifting surge. Make this a cantrip with d4s or something.


elekinetic Strangulation: If they escape are they only free of the immobilized? Can I sustain for more damage? And please do not call it "persistent" damage when it happens as a result of sustaining. Those are different things. Finally, if it's a attack roll give me a crit hit result.

Telekinetic Tantrum: Psychokinetic Slam is interesting as a mass ranged attack that inflicts stunned 1. Back Off! for prone. But the damage isn't great on any of these options.

Temporal Bullets: Rank 2, reaction, no save spell to do half damage on a missed strike target within 30'. This is probably worth it at higher levels when you strikes are doing ok damage and have elemental effects to trigger weaknesses anyway, but not early. An occult WW who strikes a lot can make it a signature and have a reaction method to sutain their quantum field.

Time's Edge: Normal line stuff, but fortitude, slashing, and some debuffing on failure. It's fine.

Uncanny Eruption: Sustained half damage fireball in a 30' burst, difficult and hazardous terrain. Sustained and the repeat damage only happens on a flat check, so fairly balanced. I like it. Compare to flashfire, which is much smaller, more consistent, and trades concealment for difficult terrain.

Verdant Code: The most overpowered SF1 low level spell is back, but it's tolerable now. Persistent half fireball damage, CF and be immbolized, but it doesn't scale.

Vibe Check: A good variety of effects to choose from, but incapacitation kills it in return for the versatility. At 4th it's a 20' burst so you can think about it as a signature option.

Vital Prism: Makes next laser gun shot either healing or vitality damaging. Good action economy for mystics wielding the weapon themselves. Note that Weydan's weapon is the laser rifle, so mystics worshipping him can get d10 on it.

Void Scour: Big void fireball that counteracts lights, persistent and drained on fail/crit fail. It's fine.

Void Seed: Grant void healing but only for 1 minute.

Void Vessel: Group "let's fo fly naked in space for a day" spell. Too high level, you don't need this.

Void Whispers: Paizo, have at least three people read the failure paragraph and see if they agree on what it means. "Each action" to step, but "once per round" doesn't make sense.

Wall of Plasma: Basic stuff.

Wall of Steel: Wall of Stone, with slightly more hardness, and slightly less HP than Wall of Stone at this same rank.

Wave of Warning: Chain Lightning, but mental and nonlethal with a frightened 1/2 debuff. Low starting damage, good scaling. I like it.

Weight of Ages: Please stop! Attack roll, bad damage, not important debuff for 1 round on a hit. Crit is a bit better, but no.

Wisp Ally: Compare to Stumble; this is rank 1 vs a cantrip, will vs reflex, 120' vs 100', both inflict offguard, but this one can be sustained. Can be heightened to get more wisps to try to off guard multiple targets at range, or if they fail against two range they are (must be?) dazzled instead. Please add "can become dazzled instead" rather than making it mandatory, you might be stacking wisps to ensure off-guard rather than trying for dazzled. Allowing both might not be the worst thing in the world...

X-Ray Vision: The weak form of SF1 x-ray vision returns, both here and in an augmentation. The 5-6x as strong version probably isn't coming back. I miss it.


Not sure why they bothered to rename Execute to Death Sentence. It's already in the PC1, and could have given us room for another new spell.


Literally LOL’d just now realizing why Cairn Form (physical resistance and hard punchy fist) might be granted to the precog. It’s the easiest thing in the world to flavor it as the Colonel Kassad (Hyperion) time skin suit. Time to go punch the Shrike.


One potential balancing concern on Singularity Seed doing too much damage from a double application:

"All creatures and unsecured objects in the area are moved toward the singularity when the spell is cast, at the end of their turn, and whenever
they use an action to move within the area, all depending on their Reflex saving throws"

and

"A creature or object that enters or starts their turn in the square containing the singularity takes 10d10 void damage."

So if you cast it and immediately suck in some targets, they will take damage twice before they can try to escape on their turn: once when they enter, once when their turn starts. No basic save is listed for what happens inside, so they'll take on average 20d10, or 110 points of damage regardless of how high or low their saving bonuses are.

A success on a reflex save moves a creature 10' towards the singularity, so if you place it next to anything it has to crit succeed or take this damage and burn actions to get out.


Not a fan of Sift the Sphere just being a better Augury at the same Rank.


Eldritch Lance, I feel should be reduced to d4


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moosher12 wrote:
Eldritch Lance, I feel should be reduced to d4

Isn’t it TKP with a usually worse damage option? It’s attack not save.


moosher12 wrote:
Not a fan of Sift the Sphere just being a better Augury at the same Rank.

There’s a few old spell plus a comm unit ones that are improved. Motivating Ringtone (Soothe) and Akashic Download ((Pocket Library) are others.


Eldritch Lance is worse Divine Lance, it should go to 60ft range not gonna lie.


Xenocrat wrote:
There’s a few old spell plus a comm unit ones that are improved. Motivating Ringtone (Soothe) and Akashic Download ((Pocket Library) are others.

Akashic Library is not actually an improvement over Pocket Library. Exact same stats. Mostly just a flavor change. You can take either or interchangeably with no mechanical effect.

Motivating Ringtone heals less than Soothe, but does slightly more buffs, so it's a give and take, therefore its a sidegrade against Soothe.

Sift the Sphere is just a straight upgrade, as it does the same as Augury, but with an additional heightened effect, meaning it's objectively better to take as a Signature Spell as it replaces both Augury and Read the Omens. You have no reason to take Augury over Sift the Sphere.

Xenocrat wrote:
Isn’t it TKP with a usually worse damage option? It’s attack not save.

You're right, I somehow forgot about Telekinetic Projectile. I was comparing it to Ignition and Gouging Claw, but you're right on this one, I'll retract the statement for Eldritch Lance.


I think Akashic Library heightens to get increased bonuses faster than Pocket Library at lower spell ranks.


Xenocrat wrote:
I think Akashic Library heightens to get increased bonuses faster than Pocket Library at lower spell ranks.

Oh, yeah, you're right, 3, 4, 5, and 3, 6, 9...

Not a fan of that. Would rather they be equivalent.


I am a fan of “some spells just work better at equivalent rank after thousands of years of research by dozens of civilizations sharing their best tricks and integrating them with technology” as long as they’re fairly minor, and/or out of combat.


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What I don't like about it is it creates inconsistency in the expected power level of a spell rank.

This is problematic on the fronts of hybridizing the games.

For example, if a spell exists in Starfinder, it is considered balanced. If a spell exists in Pathfinder, it is considered balanced.

Starfinder has a lot of spells that are balanced within Pathfinder, and are highly thematic within Pathfinder, All but a few spells are spells I'd gladly welcome in a Pathfinder game after having given the spells a read. Many of them do not require technology to function, and can function even in the rennaisance space that is Pathfinder with little to zero anachronism

But the problem is when the errant spell is a straight upgrade.

If the core of Starfinder spells and Pathfinder spells is roughly equivalent, if a Starfinder spell is a straight upgrade to a Pathfinder spell of the same rank, that means the spell should be balanced in Pathfinder, so can, in most cases, replace the Pathfinder spell.

It also becomes problematic 3pp side, because that means when designing a spell, you have to look at two different power levels for what a spell within a spell rank can do, instead of one system-based power level. It also makes GMs less trusting on welcoming spells across systems if a precedent of Starfinder just having better spells become more dominant, which can result in many otherwise fine spells being banned from a Pathfinder table in the process, unless a GM is willing to go through the trouble of making a specific accepted spell list.

A lot of the spells that are upgrades to existing spells, have been made higher level than their counterparts. For example, Feline Senses. Or they are a side grade to their equivalent, such as Motivating Ringtone, Death Sentence, Light Scour, and Void Scour.


I really don't want to see Wall of Steel in this game. Im not conviced that the razing trait is enough to stop a player from locking up multiple enemies with a single wall spell. When you use wall of stone to put an enemy in singular confinement they are stuck until all of their friends are dead.

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