I have a question for the hive mind. I have recently been informed that no city can have magic items for sale that exceed that city’s base value. If that is in fact the case, how on Golorian does one obtain a +10 weapon or even a +6 belt/headband if one is never given out as loot without crafting it yourself?
that's easy
+10 adds 200000gp to the cost of a weapon.
Acc'd to the Gamemastering - Treasure per Encounter at;
CR=24, slow=102,000 gp, med=155,000 gp, fast=230,000 gp
CR=26, slow=150,000 gp, med=220,000 gp, fast=330,000 gp
then review Making Ordinary Treasure Special.
Table: Settlement Statistics ... A settlement’s purchase limit is the most money a shop in the settlement can spend to purchase any single item from the PCs. If the PCs wish to sell an item worth more than a settlement’s purchase limit, they’ll either need to settle for a lower price, travel to A larger city, or (with the GM‘s permission) search for a specific buyer in the city with deeper pockets. A settlement’s type sets its purchase limit.
Metropolis has a purchase limit of 100000gp and NPC spellcasting SplLvl=8 maximum.
Table: Available Magic Items Minor Items/Medium Items/Major Items This line lists the number of magic items above a settlement’s base value that are available for purchase. In some city stat blocks, the actual items are listed in parentheses after the die range of items available—in this case, you can use these pre-rolled resources when the PCs first visit the city as the magic items available for sale on that visit. If the PCs return to that city at a later date, you can roll up new items as you see fit.
Metropolis base value=16,000 gp, minor {nearly all}, medium=4d4 items, major=3d4 items. {notice no cost limitation}
so there are 2 tables to consult for settlements and that excludes notable NPCs the PC may know.
I have a question for the hive mind. I have recently been informed that no city can have magic items for sale that exceed that city’s base value. If that is in fact the case, how on Golorian does one obtain a +10 weapon or even a +6 belt/headband if one is never given out as loot without crafting it yourself?
You've been slightly misinformed.
Any item with a value equal to the community's base value (or less) has a 75% chance of being found easily. In addition to those items, a settlement has a certain number of minor, medium, and major items available. A large town or larger for major items. A metropolis has 3d4 major items available. So it's possible to roll up a +5 vorpal sword as one of those available items using just the CRB.
Having said that, many GMs treat the truly massive, magical cities (Absalom, etc.) as having every non-artifact item available for purchase. Or at least have someone capable of making one for you.
I have a question for the hive mind. I have recently been informed that no city can have magic items for sale that exceed that city’s base value. If that is in fact the case, how on Golorian does one obtain a +10 weapon or even a +6 belt/headband if one is never given out as loot without crafting it yourself?
No, what you were informed was that those items that fall above the city's base value are rolled for, and that those items are the only ones above that value that are available to buy in that city until it gets rerolled...
Edit: Which, having read the replies you got after I replied to you, it seems others have informed you of as well. As I said before, yes, there's a chance of one showing up, but that is never going to be a guarantee.
the GM supplies some things in a campaign. If a player wants a specific item... get the craft feat or hire an NPC with it. Simple really.
The magic item crafting table is there to support that for GMs and Players.
the GM supplies some things in a campaign. If a player wants a specific item... get the craft feat or hire an NPC with it. Simple really.
The magic item crafting table is there to support that for GMs and Players.
That would be a great idea if Xelaaredn wasn’t actively trying to make item crafting significantly more difficult than the rules state. Potentially requiring research checks to learn how to craft an item. Potentially requiring the purchase of item formulas to learn how to craft items. Since “you shouldn’t just automatically know how to craft every item a feat could encompass the moment you take the feat”. Removing the ability to ignore prerequisites by increasing the DC. Requiring the player to be at the CL of the item to craft it. And so on.
the GM supplies some things in a campaign. If a player wants a specific item... get the craft feat or hire an NPC with it. Simple really.
The magic item crafting table is there to support that for GMs and Players.
That would be a great idea if Xelaaredn wasn’t actively trying to make item crafting significantly more difficult than the rules state.... And so on.
those are mostly Home Game concerns but your complaint is now part of the public Rules forum. I'd suggest discussing it with your Home Game GM. He might allow generic crafting of things at a price of 1000gp or less. Maybe he's just leery or cautious about Craft Wondrous Item and this is how it is coming out...
You can try the very popular PFS style (as RAW is what it is and PFS tried to put it to practice in a Paizo sanctioned campaign). It's very generic with no crafting as players have to buy everything at full price from published items only with a few specific exceptions for a few classes. There are published rules in 3 online docs and it is stable and pretty sensible with a ton of scenarios.
In a practical manner crafting magic items isn't really a concern until 6+ Level and Bonded Objects have a workaround (read the rules carefully).
GMs need a balance of sticks and carrots and apply the rules to PCs and NPCs, so let's hope he wisely integrates both into his home game campaign. Afterwards his Home Game players will vote with their feet (aka stay or leave the campaign). There is a big difference between potential issues and real issues and trust is a two-way street. PF1 RAW is intentionally generic.
the GM supplies some things in a campaign. If a player wants a specific item... get the craft feat or hire an NPC with it. Simple really.
The magic item crafting table is there to support that for GMs and Players.
That would be a great idea if Xelaaredn wasn’t actively trying to make item crafting significantly more difficult than the rules state. Potentially requiring research checks to learn how to craft an item. Potentially requiring the purchase of item formulas to learn how to craft items. Since “you shouldn’t just automatically know how to craft every item a feat could encompass the moment you take the feat”. Removing the ability to ignore prerequisites by increasing the DC. Requiring the player to be at the CL of the item to craft it. And so on.
And yet again only giving half the information so as to try and win others to your cause...
I have expressed how much I like that PF2e created a rarity system. That there is a difference between what is considered common, uncommon, and rare, actually built into the system. I personally think it's stupid to think that every character knows that every single item that could/does exist in the game exists and can just ask for it by name at the local Magicmart and buy it if they've got the money (even if, canonically, only 1 exists and it's still being worn by the owner). Having a more clear cut and concise idea of what is actually available is nice. Now, clearly I'm not going to take the time to sit there and sift through every magic item in both and assign rarity and level to each item in 1e, that'd be ridiculous. But I do like that it shows that the designers of the game thought it better to make it even more obvious to players that ultimately the GM/DM is the one who decides what they're allowing to be used in their campaign.
Me bringing up the idea of adding in a research check system was as a way to try and compromise with the thought process that the character should be able to (Hisoka's words) "stumble upon the process" to create magic items that haven't existed since before Earthfall. And how, in universe, would that happen? Through research. Something we see time and time again with wizards sitting cloistered in their towers at upper levels.
And yes, I have spoken at length with the person who normally picks up the crafting feats about certain changes. Namely the "buying of formulas", which he has no real problem with the way it's currently being implemented in testing, as well as the moving back to 3.5's way of handling crafting. Being able to ignore prerequisites for making items is silly, especially with how easily it is (and how often my particular players tend to) completely bloat out a single skill like Spellcraft to the point of not even having to roll the die ("nothing says you can't take 10") while ignoring every single prerequisite of the item. Personally, I don't see the reason for any player to balk at the idea of a system where they don't have to roll a check to complete the item, there is no chance of failure or possibly creating a cursed item, or the fact that I've already said I'd be leaving out the XP costs that used to be part of the limiting factor of 3.5's rules.
But apparently the sheer audacity of expecting my players to provide the proper spells, be the proper caster level (if in the requirements, not the listed CL of the item as he tried to misinform), and potentially be the proper alignment/race/etc. is just "too much". (This is where I'd like to point out how much Hisoka says he loves 3.5 and how it's the greatest system by the way.)
I've also brought up the idea of using the Dynamic Magic Crafting system from Unchained with the normal party crafter, to which I never even got a reply, so I'm assuming they weren't a fan.
Long enough already, I know, but to Azothath:
I have looked to PFS as far as certain parts of balancing going forward is concerned, one reason why we will be switching to point buy moving forward. I am not trying to be nearly as heavy handed as he's trying to make it out to be. Currently they've been given "one last hoorah" before I pull them back in line with how the system is really meant to be handled so he's getting a bit upset that certain little exploits won't be available moving forward. To give you an idea, currently...
They are using soul gems created via Summon Cacodaemon to make a fair amount of their magic items. Multiple players have +5 (base) weapons at level 8. They have all been using the downtime rules to generate magic capital by "doing things that raise it" in their growing city in Kingmaker (you know, the game meant to take a couple years in game) to craft any and all other magic items at 1/4 price...
And yes, I've been allowing them to do all this, I get it's my fault. But again, one last power trip here.
I already know that we won’t be permitted to use any exploits. I’m ok with that. I certainly feel like we’re currently going beyond what should be acceptable. But when I was told that a 17th level character isn’t guaranteed a +6 item in their primary stat throughout the course of an adventure path (a pretty common standard item and part of what is considered the big 6) I was and still am quite concerned. Especially considering a 15th level character using ABP gets +6 to a mental stat and a 16th level character using ABP gets +6 to a physical stat
And yes, I have spoken at length with the person who normally picks up the crafting feats about certain changes. Namely the "buying of formulas", which he has no real problem with the way it's currently being implemented in testing, as well as the moving back to 3.5's way of handling crafting. Being able to ignore prerequisites for making items is silly, especially with how easily it is (and how often my particular players tend to) completely bloat out a single skill like Spellcraft to the point of not even having to roll the die ("nothing says you can't take 10") while ignoring every single prerequisite of the item. Personally, I don't see the reason for any player to balk at the idea of a system where they don't have to roll a check to complete the item, there is no chance of failure or possibly creating a cursed item, or the fact that I've already said I'd be leaving out the XP costs that used to be part of the limiting factor of 3.5's rules.with the thought process that the character should be able to...
Houserule:
I have done something similar in my current campaign. But I have differentiated between "magic items that launch actual spells" and "magic items that simulate the effect of a spell".
For the first, the specific spell is a requirement that can't be bypassed, for the latter it is a requirement that can be bypassed with a +5 on the spellcraft check.
To make it clearer:
- an item that casts Shield at CL 5 three times a day requires to be crafted by someone that can cast Shield at CL 5, and the guy crafting it needs to memorize Shied and use it up while making the item,
- an item that makes the person wearing it immune from Magic missiles will have Shield as a prerequisite, but it will not require the caster to memorize Shield to craft it.
Too many magic items have prerequisite spells that have only a vague connection with the final effect, so I feel that always making the spells mandatory is counterproductive.
Your personal table drama has now spilled out into the "grab some popcorn" for the rest of us.
Congratulations?
Unless there is another actual rules question to be answered, highly recommend taking this offline.
Indeed it seems to have. That certainly was not the intent of this post at all. I simply made the thread to ask if there was a RAW way to obtain magic items (especially those from the core 6) that cost more than 16k as that’s the highest base value available on Golarion. Unfortunately it seems like it’s craft or hope it gets randomly rolled. Sad day but I’ll just deal with that. Unfortunately the GM of my game took the thread as a personal attack for whatever reason and then proceeded to air out a bunch of stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with the post. Then I played into it of course. I should’ve just ignored his reply as I got my answer in the first 2 replies.
Without getting involved in interpersonal interplay...
While a lot of us are used to playing in "magic-mart" campaigns (everything is available for purchase and/or time spent crafting does not impact the campaign), relatively random item availability is one of the basic assumptions of the CRB. Among other things, it makes some class abilities far more useful. Fighters can take Weapon Training in multiple weapon groups, monk Unarmed Strike overcomes various types of DR, etc. What really matters is that the challenges are appropriate for the strength of the party.
Having said that, the base value may be somewhat higher depending on the qualities of the settlement. Just using the GMG, you could conceivably have a base value of 33,600. Unlikely, given the combination of qualities, but possible.
According to the Pathfinder Society Field Guide page 5, Absalom is: Base Value 25,600 gp; Purchase Limit 170,000 gp; Spellcasting 9th
There are several character options for boosting base value/item availability, subject to GM approval.
-Rogue talent Black Market Connections: Possibly find any item in a metropolis
-Knight of Coins (paladin archetype): treat a settlement's base value as +30%
-Commercial Savvy (trait): treat all settlement base values as 10% higher
-Black Markets is an entire book about said places of commerce. They usually have higher base values (and higher prices) than the cities surrounding them. There's even a feat from the book called Black Market Dealings that lets you treat the market's base value as even higher.
