So I'm looking, and a Wyrwood, which is RP 20, is CR 1/2 for 1 level (rogue) and NPC wealth. Which is the same for a human. But a Svirfneblin is CR=level for NPC wealth and PC class levels. They are RP 24. Okay, so it seems that RP 1-20 is normal CR, RP 21-40 would thus be CR +1, RP 41-60 would be CR +2, and so on.
But then, Drow Nobles, which are RP 41, which according to the pattern, is CR +2, is only CR +1, not +2.
Unfortunately, there are no RP 21-23 races, so I don't know when the turning point is for CR +1, so I'm now left with RP 1 up to 21, 22, or 23 is normal CR, RP as low as 22, 23, or 24 and up to 42, 44, or 46 is CR +1, RP as low as 43, 45, or 47 and up to 63, 66, 69 is CR +2, and so on.
I'm just trying to figure something out so I can make a high CR monster that has no racial HD, because I think it would be fun to build. Any advice on this would be appreciated.
The Race Point system is a guideline for GM's making a first pass on creating a custom race. It is not particularly accurate, and it is very easy to create races that are significantly stronger or significantly weaker than their RP would suggest. You really can't use it as a hard rule, and every race needs to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
The Wyrwood is a good example of why you can't rely on the RP system to balance a race. It's "only" RP 20, which is probably why it got published without a CR adjustment, but it achieves this by using a single trait that costs 20 RP. This trait was not intended for CR+0 races, and is blatantly unreasonable in this context. Let's actually break down what the construct trait does: immunity to mind-affecting spells, bleed, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, ablitity damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, non-lethal damage, anything that requires a fortitude save (that doesn't affect objects), don't need to eat/breath/sleep, and 20 bonus hit points. That is very obviously too much for a race without level adjustment. The Wyrwood is a great example why you can't blindly rely on RP, as it can obscure that the suite of traits really isn't appropriate for a CR+0 race.
The Svirfneblin is a good example of the opposite. It's 24 RP, and rightly so because it does have some really nice abilities. +2 to saves and AC along with 11+level SR are some really good defensive bonuses, but its ability score bonuses are underwhelming and its other features have no real synergy. We can see why it has its CR+1 adjustment, but it's not really offering enough to make it worth that CR+1 enhancement. Defensive bonuses are nice to have, but in terms of its active abilities it's actually severely undertuned. It has too many strong features for a CR+0 race, but it doesn't have the power of a CR+1 race. This puts it in a bit of a no-man's, where it's just a little too strong for CR+0, but flagrantly too weak for CR+1.
TL;DR: races need to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis. The race builder cost is for quick estimates, not final determinations.
Dasrak wrote: The Race Point system is a guideline for GM's making a first pass on creating a custom race. It is not particularly accurate, and it is very easy to create races that are significantly stronger or significantly weaker than their RP would suggest. You really can't use it as a hard rule, and every race needs to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis.
The Wyrwood is a good example of why you can't rely on the RP system to balance a race. It's "only" RP 20, which is probably why it got published without a CR adjustment, but it achieves this by using a single trait that costs 20 RP. This trait was not intended for CR+0 races, and is blatantly unreasonable in this context. Let's actually break down what the construct trait does: immunity to mind-affecting spells, bleed, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, ablitity damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, non-lethal damage, anything that requires a fortitude save (that doesn't affect objects), don't need to eat/breath/sleep, and 20 bonus hit points. That is very obviously too much for a race without level adjustment. The Wyrwood is a great example why you can't blindly rely on RP, as it can obscure that the suite of traits really isn't appropriate for a CR+0 race.
The Svirfneblin is a good example of the opposite. It's 24 RP, and rightly so because it does have some really nice abilities. +2 to saves and AC along with 11+level SR are some really good defensive bonuses, but its ability score bonuses are underwhelming and its other features have no real synergy. We can see why it has its CR+1 adjustment, but it's not really offering enough to make it worth that CR+1 enhancement. Defensive bonuses are nice to have, but in terms of its active abilities it's actually severely undertuned. It has too many strong features for a CR+0 race, but it doesn't have the power of a CR+1 race. This puts it in a bit of a no-man's, where it's just a little too strong for CR+0,...
Actually, Wyrwoods are Small size. They only get 10 bonus hit points. Sure, at level 1, that is equivalent to a Con score of 30, but at level 5, that is the equivalent of a Con score of only 14. At level 10, that is equivalent to a Con score of only 12.
But there is 1 major problem with this: They are dead (destroyed) at 0 hp, due to not having a Con score. So in actuality, those bonus hit points are not an equivalent of a Con score of 30 at level 1, because someone with such a Con score can take 30 extra points of damage before anymore damage kills them (0 hp down to -29 hp while still being alive).
So in actuality, that 10 bonus hit points is closer to non existent, since they don't have the ability to (potentially) survive into the negatives. And it never increases with level like bonus hp from a Con score would.
-----
EDIT: If anyone is still here, I think I figured it out. RP 21-40 is more like CR +0.5, which almost always rounds up, so following the pattern, RP 1-20=normal CR, RP 21-40=CR +0.5 round up to +1, RP 41-60=CR +1, RP 61-80=CR +1.5 round up to +2, RP 81-100=CR +2, and so on.
Reksew_Trebla wrote: Actually, Wyrwoods are Small size. They only get 10 bonus hit points. Sure, at level 1, that is equivalent to a Con score of 30, but at level 5, that is the equivalent of a Con score of only 14. At level 10, that is equivalent to a Con score of only 12. Good catch on the size.
In any case, yes flat hit point bonuses are going to be more impactful at low levels. +10 hit points are clearly broken at 1st level, but negligible at 20th. This wouldn't be an issue if this was even a +1 level adjustment race, but at +0 it makes it the race completely unacceptable in low-level player. And the other bonuses are still outrageous.
Reksew_Trebla wrote: But there is 1 major problem with this: They are dead (destroyed) at 0 hp, due to not having a Con score. This is indeed a huge risk when playing them, and really speaks to the fact that they are not well-suited as a PC race. For an NPC this downside is immaterial.
Abilities can be much more valuable to PCs than monsters, so there aren’t always direct comparisons. For instance, fast healing 1 wouldn’t do much to help a monster survive even an extra round of its encounter. But a PC with fast healing 1 starts almost every fight with full hp, which is a pretty big boon
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules
|
