Durable arrow's and special materials


Rules Questions


My gm has ruled that durable arrow's can't be made with any special materials but is open to changing it with any evidence to the contrary. Problem is most people just assume you can do this so I can't find many places online talking about this. Does anyone have any good info about whether this is allowed by the rules or another thread/post that clears it up?

I tried saying that in the alchemical archery section it says durable can be applied to a variety of different ammunition and should therefore imply it's alright for special material ammunition but he wasn't having it.

thanks in advance for any answers!


arrow (durable) outlines how it can take magical enhancements.
Special Material Cold Iron says, An arrow could be made of cold iron...

I know this was allowed in PF1 Org Play. However they do break and get lost so players kept it to owning just several durable cold iron ones then applied Weapon Blanch Silver, Adamantine, Ghost Salt (one type per arrow). A smart guy marked them with arcane mark to make finding them easier.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Personally, the only arrows I find worth making durable are adamantine ones.

For "normal" arrows, cold iron with weapon blanch (silver) is extremely cost-effective.


The mending cantrip will work on arrows.

Liberty's Edge

Java Man wrote:
The mending cantrip will work on arrows.

I thought so, then realized it takes 10 minutes to repair 1 arrow ...

I doubt the rest of the group would wait while you cast Mending several times to recover a few arrows.
Even gathering all the pieces for lather repair will take time.

As one of my players said late Sunday after an NPC finished a looong tale: "I have deleted all my active spells. They timed out." As they were prepared for a fight, that was several spells.

The recipe requiring cold iron is a bit strange, as it doesn't seem to do anything, and the description says "These arrows are tightly wrapped in strands of alchemical glue."

Pro "it can be done":
For arrows special materials normally meant changing the head of the arrow. That doesn't seem to interfere with: "These arrows are tightly wrapped in strands of alchemical glue."

Against it:
The cost of a durable arrow is listed as a fixed price "1 gp". Not as "cost of the arrow+1 gp".

Considering that, the RAW seems to be " you can make a durable arrow with special materials (or a masterwork one) only if the cost of the special material is expressed as +x gp or as a multiplier of the arrow base cost.

I hope that will helpè with your GM.


ADVICE
This may be a people problem rather than an RPG issue.
If your GM is relatively new and your PCs are under 5th level I'd simply ask to talk again at 3rd level and be diplomatic rather than confrontational.
It's not a big deal until you shoot more than 2 arrows a round as they are pretty cheap as is.
Durable arrows are made by elves(originally) and you may need to find or trade with an elvish enclave/settlement. The GM can levy restrictions on access. It does give you a reason to travel to the elves and get some superior elven items you've heard rumors about. He may also work them in as treasure.

PF1 Org Play Additional Resources scroll down to Pathfinder Player Companion: Elves of Golarion. Equipment: clustershot, healer’s sorrow, and sparkfly crystal arrow weapon qualities and alchemical archery items, except trip arrows, on pages 22-23 are legal for play; ... or you can just check for the icon on AoN... PFS legal means it has been reviewed by several knowledgeable folks and meets the simplistic Org Play controllable format (thus most overpowered & not well defined stuff is booted from the official Paizo sponsored campaign).


Azothath wrote:

ADVICE

This may be a people problem rather than an RPG issue.
If your GM is relatively new and your PCs are under 5th level I'd simply ask to talk again at 3rd level and be diplomatic rather than confrontational.
It's not a big deal until you shoot more than 2 arrows a round as they are pretty cheap as is.
Durable arrows are made by elves(originally) and you may need to find or trade with an elvish enclave/settlement. The GM can levy restrictions on access. It does give you a reason to travel to the elves and get some superior elven items you've heard rumors about. He may also work them in as treasure.

PF1 Org Play Additional Resources scroll down to Pathfinder Player Companion: Elves of Golarion. Equipment: clustershot, healer’s sorrow, and sparkfly crystal arrow weapon qualities and alchemical archery items, except trip arrows, on pages 22-23 are legal for play; ... or you can just check for the icon on AoN... PFS legal means it has been reviewed by several knowledgeable folks and meets the simplistic Org Play controllable format (thus most overpowered & not well defined stuff is booted from the official Paizo sponsored campaign).

I don't see how an arrow having a fixed price would be against it being made of special materials. Durable arrows are a gold each, so if you want a cold iron durable arrow, it is twice that. An adamantine durable arrow would be 61 gold. Am I missing something in the rules about that?


my last post was just a caution to think about the poster's particular situation; social aspects, Game Balance from the GM's point of view, as well as RAW. It might be a social topic that needs a conversation.


We long ago got tired of the ledger keeping of tracking gear (especially ammunition) to this level. We assume that a ranged character can make new ammunition during the evening camp/downtime, and will have enough made for a days worth of adventuring, thus negating the need for durable arrows. We have also discovered that DR is not usually enough of an issue to warrant the use of special materials, especially once a weapons magic bonus gets high enough to penetrate most DR's on it's own. Of course your game may differ, but we have found that getting rid of this level of bookkeeping freed game time up so that we can concentrate on the other aspects of game.

Liberty's Edge

TxSam88 wrote:
especially once a weapons magic bonus gets high enough to penetrate most DR's on it's own.

Regardless of the +X of the bow, the arrow counts only as magic for bypassing DR.

An aligned bow will share its alignment.

FAQ wrote:

Magic Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: When a ranged weapon shares its enhancement bonus with its ammunition, does this count as “true” enhancement bonus or more like a temporary bonus like greater magic weapon? In other words, does the shared enhancement bonus allow the arrow to bypass damage reduction as if it was cold iron, silver, adamantine, and aligned?

No, other than the ways indicated in the Core Rulebook (if the ranged weapon is at least +1, they count as magic, and if the ranged weapon is aligned they count as that alignment as well) the enhancement bonus granted to ammunition from the ranged weapon doesn’t help them overcome the other types of damage reduction. Archers and other such characters can buy various sorts of ammunition or ammunition with a high enhancement bonus to overcome the various types of damage reduction.
posted May 2017 | back to top


Diego Rossi wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
especially once a weapons magic bonus gets high enough to penetrate most DR's on it's own.

Regardless of the +X of the bow, the arrow counts only as magic for bypassing DR.

An aligned bow will share its alignment.

FAQ wrote:

Magic Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: When a ranged weapon shares its enhancement bonus with its ammunition, does this count as “true” enhancement bonus or more like a temporary bonus like greater magic weapon? In other words, does the shared enhancement bonus allow the arrow to bypass damage reduction as if it was cold iron, silver, adamantine, and aligned?

No, other than the ways indicated in the Core Rulebook (if the ranged weapon is at least +1, they count as magic, and if the ranged weapon is aligned they count as that alignment as well) the enhancement bonus granted to ammunition from the ranged weapon doesn’t help them overcome the other types of damage reduction. Archers and other such characters can buy various sorts of ammunition or ammunition with a high enhancement bonus to overcome the various types of damage reduction.
posted May 2017 | back to top

Many of the FAQ's are BS at many tables. This is an example of a rules complication that was not needed.

But ok, so the ammunition doesn't go through DR, It's not difficult to deal enough damage and get enough attacks for DR to be a non issue even for ranged. Our table usually forgets that high enhancement bonus weapons go through DR anyway, and we don't have an issue taking down bad guys with substantial DR.

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