| Sanityfaerie |
So, Alloy Flesh and Steel (Kineticist Metal Impulse 14) is a two-action polymorph impulse that can last for up to a minute if sustained, and terminates at the end of your turn. As you get close to the end of that minute duration, there's nothing that specifically prevents you from attempting to use it a second time. It's a polymorph effect, though, and you're only allowed to have one of those at a time. If you attempt to recast, and thus instantiate the new effect while the old one is still running, you have to make a counterspell check against yourself. That all seems relatively straightforward... I think.
The question is... is there any way to voluntary-fail that counterspell check?
For context, this is particularly important because of environmental effects that cause conditions. Alloy Flesh and Steel makes you immune to a whole bunch of different kinds of effects. If you have it up when the effect hits, the effect just bounces right off to no effect. If you are under the effect when you activate the impulse, however, it merely suspends it, and once the effects of Alloy Flesh and Steel end from that use, you need to wait an hour before you can use it again. So there's potentially real value in being able to maintain the metal form in an ongoing way... and voluntarily ending the effect early and then reapplying it wouldn't actually do the job.
For further context, that particular aspect is less of a niche question than you'd think because of Plate in Treasure, and, in particular, abysium. Abysium is a particular rare precious material with the funny effect that it sickens everyone around it. If you're wearing abysium armor and carrying an abysium shield, and so forth, then you'll wind up applying that effect to, say, the enemies that happen to get too close to you... but it'll hit you even harder. Thing is that it doesn't apply to people who are straight-up immune to poison. So... this is a fun trick for those at level 17 or higher who are metal kineticists who also have the Earth or Wood resist junction, but Alloy Flesh and Steel is a lot more accessible.
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Also, as a bonus question... how does Plate in Treasure interact with Metal element attack impulses? Like, I feel like you should be able to get the material bonus (or something like it) on whatever it was you were attacking with, but it doesn't make that entirely clear? Is this just a "GM ruling" moment?
| Easl |
On the second: "While you’re wearing or holding an item of light Bulk or greater that’s Plated in Treasure, any metal created by one of your impulses is plated with the metal...". So yes?
[edit] The first I have no clear-cut answer for, except to say that if they had wanted it sustainable for a longer duration or in perpetuity, without interrupt, they probably would have said that instead of 1 minute. So a 'disjoint moment' where you have to drop it and turn it back on every minute - and suffer whatever horrible effect might be waiting for you in that moment - seems right. "In the last second, I recast while I voluntarily fail the counteract check for the first casting" is just a weird, complicated way to achieve the rules equivalent of "this impulse is sustainable forever.' Which seems not to be stated the intent.
| Sanityfaerie |
On the second: "While you’re wearing or holding an item of light Bulk or greater that’s Plated in Treasure, any metal created by one of your impulses is plated with the metal...". So yes?
Oh, that part's clear enough. The trick is that it's an impulse attack, and thus not specifically a weapon. The "How does a weapon made out of this metal act?" question is answered for standard weapons with weapon stats that are used in weapon strikes... but impulses don't do exactly those things.
[edit] The first I have no clear-cut answer for, except to say that if they had wanted it sustainable for a longer duration or in perpetuity, without interrupt, they probably would have said that instead of 1 minute. So a 'disjoint moment' where you have to drop it and turn it back on every minute - and suffer whatever horrible effect might be waiting for you in that moment - seems right. "In the last second, I recast while I voluntarily fail the counteract check for the first casting" is just a weird, complicated way to achieve the rules equivalent of "this impulse is sustainable forever.' Which seems not to be stated the intent.
I don't think that's quite as compelling as it looks at first? The standard sustain is a single action cost per round that can be paid by the effortless impulse (Kineticist 12) feat. Reapplying it takes two full actions - a notable additional cost. Further, there's the limitation clause when you have suspended effects. Sustaining can keep the effect suspension going. Recasting pretty clearly cannot. (Technically, you recast, attempt dispel, succeed at dispel, and immediately become immune tot he effect, thus losing it.)
...and there's the flip side of the argument, where if you do succeed at the counteract check it works just fine, and it's kind of odd that "my powers are hard to dispel" would be bad for you. Of course, it also feels a bit odd, given that you can chain them in that way (if you pass the dispel checks) that it wouldn't just merge in and reinforce without need for dispel checks.
I'm not saying that you're wrong. I don't know. I'm just saying that if it's an argument from what would make sense or whatever, there are arguments on both sides.
My guess is "the rules don't say that you can, so you can't" but I don't have anything like the kind of encyclopedic knowledge of the rules I'd need to know that for sure.
...and another thing I don't have encyclopedic knowledge on (or even close) is gear. Assuming that autofailure isn't an option... is there any gear out there that could (in a fairly persistent way) make you better at counteracting your own stuff? I mean, that obviously wouldn't be its primary purpose, but....
| SuperBidi |
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The question is... is there any way to voluntary-fail that counterspell check?
Failing the counteract check means the new effect never replaces the old one. So it's not what you're looking for.
You have the duplicate effect rule otherwise: "When you’re affected by the same thing multiple times, only one instance applies, using the higher level of the effects, or the newer effect if the two are the same level. For example, if you were using mage armor and then cast it again, you’d still benefit from only one casting of that spell. Casting a spell again on the same target might get you a better duration or effect if it were cast at a higher level the second time, but otherwise doing so gives you no advantage."
And actually, from the way they are written, it seems to supersede the Polymorph rule as the counteracting is part of being affected, something that you can't be in the first place because of the duplicate effect rule.
| Easl |
The trick is that it's an impulse attack, and thus not specifically a weapon. The "How does a weapon made out of this metal act?" question is answered for standard weapons with weapon stats that are used in weapon strikes... but impulses don't do exactly those things.
Ah. Well, I think I just took it to mean add the appropriate traits to the attack. If you plate in silver, then your impulses are treated as if they have the [silver] trait. Now go read about what the [silver] trait does to this here enemy. Etc. I did not read it as meaning if some silver weapon in the book says "add +1d6 silver damage" that that means the impulse gets to add +1d6 silver damage too.
[edit]it's kind of odd that "my powers are hard to dispel" would be bad for you. Of course, it also feels a bit odd, given that you can chain them in that way (if you pass the dispel checks) that it wouldn't just merge in and reinforce without need for dispel checks.
I'm not saying that you're wrong. I don't know. I'm just saying that if it's an argument from what would make sense or whatever, there are arguments on both sides.
Super seems to have grabbed tihs one. I don't like it, but duplicate effect rule seems to mean that impulses like this are essentially sustainable forever, as long as you have the actions to recast.