Are there any REMASTERED versions of the Mirror Image or Stinking Cloud spells?
No. These spells aren't ported to PC1. Yet they still valid for now.
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For now...
:(
How many GMs will still allow them once the Remaster has been in full swing for a year?
Despite the encouragement from developers to keep using existing content, I can't help but think many GMs are allowing pre-Remaster content only because there would be a lack of content otherwise. How long will that last before there is enough new content that GMs feel safe in treating it more like a new edition though?
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I can't help but think many GMs are allowing pre-Remaster content only because there would be a lack of content otherwise. How long will that last before there is enough new content that GMs feel safe in treating it more like a new edition though?Isn't that a case of "problem solved"? If you currently want to use X because the remaster doesn't have new-X, and then a later remaster book publishes new-X, then "oh no I can't use X because it's not remaster" is no longer a problem.
I'm quite certain not everything will have an equivalent replacement in the Remaster. I'm concerned about those GMs who might say something like "now that we have Player Core 2 and Monster Core, our next campaign will be Remaster and ORC only."
That would preclude anything not reprinted.
I'm quite certain not everything will have an equivalent replacement in the Remaster. I'm concerned about those GMs who might say something like "now that we have Player Core 2 and Monster Core, our next campaign will be Remaster and ORC only."
That would preclude anything not reprinted.
I'm also quite certain that it won't include everything.
Specifically, that "Remaster only" idea will prevent playing a Magus, Thaumaturge, Psychic, and even Kineticist. So I think a particular spell not being available is the least of your worries.
Just find a different GM.
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-shrugs- I will probably be doing that for simplicity sake once PC2 comes out, anything from the crb and apg that wasn't reprinted will be by default be gone.
But I will be allowing any other preremaster books and if a player asked for a spell or feat that hadn't been reprinted I would consider it.
Stop treating GMs as if they can't be talked to.
In my case it is just lowering the burden of source lookup.
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-shrugs- I will probably be doing that for simplicity sake once PC2 comes out, anything from the crb and apg that wasn't reprinted will be by default be gone.
But I will be allowing any other preremaster books and if a player asked for a spell or feat that hadn't been reprinted I would consider it.
Yeah, that makes sense because those two books specifically have been converted into the two new books. Same with Bestiary and Monster Core. Things that are in Bestiary 1 that didn't make the cut for Monster Core or get moved into an even newer book probably are going to be forgotten.
Spells from Dark Archive or items from Treasure Vault probably don't need that type of treatment.
Stop treating GMs as if they can't be talked to.
To be clear, my statement of 'find a different GM' is for after you do talk to the GM and they still insist on a hard line of "Nothing printed before November 2023".
If you're concerned about organized play, AIUI PFS has already stated that they don't do what you are concerned about.
AIUI?
The official PFS documentation I've seen regarding the Remaster said that it was a work in progress and therefore subject to change. That means they can revoke access to the Core Rulebook, GameMastery Guide, Advanced Player's Guide and Bestiary at any time. And to be honest, once those books have their respective replacements released, I expect that they will do exactly that.
Goodbye to anything that didn't make the transition.
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The official PFS documentation I've seen regarding the Remaster said that it was a work in progress and therefore subject to change. That means they can revoke access to the Core Rulebook, GameMastery Guide, Advanced Player's Guide and Bestiary at any time. And to be honest, once those books have their respective replacements released, I expect that they will do exactly that.
Goodbye to anything that didn't make the transition.
This sounds like you are jumping at shadows. Everything that the PFS leadership has even hinted at has been very permissive - allowing previously existing options to continue to be used if at all possible. Things that do have a direct replacement - such as Wizard spell schools and updated wording of existing and same-named feats/spells/abilities and such are being replaced with their direct equivalent. But if an option existed previously, they aren't taking that away.
Is there any good reason to not continue doing that in the future? Any hints from the actual PFS people indicating that they are going to be removing options?
Or is this just rumors, fearmongering, and wild speculation?
Definitely the wild speculation.
Why were some spells not Remastered ?
A bit of speculation on my part - but there are at least hints for it.
The reason varies between spells.
Some spells didn't get included by name because they are OGL famous - such as Magic Missile.
Some spells didn't get included simply because of the smaller size of the book between CRB and PC1. Something has to be cut.
Some of the OGL spells got renamed and included in a new form - such as the mentioned Magic Missile becoming Force Barrage.
And I expect and speculate that some spells that didn't get included in PC1 either because of space needs or OGL problems will eventually have equivalents created if needed and be reprinted in future books. I would put Mirror Image and Stinking Cloud into that category.
I think some problematic spells will be quietly left behind, like Synesthesia.
Tempting, but it may be better to rework them. Quietly leaving them behind can result in them sneaking back in when you’re not looking. ‘They never remastered it so it’s still valid!’ Sort of arguments can arise.
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I think some problematic spells will be quietly left behind, like Synesthesia.Tempting, but it may be better to rework them. Quietly leaving them behind can result in them sneaking back in when you’re not looking. ‘They never remastered it so it’s still valid!’ Sort of arguments can arise.
That's not an argument. It's fact.
A GM can always decide what to use in their game, but saying a spell that hasn't been explicitly removed from the game and not reprinted in the Remaster is not valid is incorrect. It's still official Pathfinder Second Edition content.
The GM can decide he will only allow Remaster content in his game, but there have always been restrictive GMs.
Luckily, my play group generally allows ALL OFFICIAL PAIZO CONTENT. We're not too big on 3rd party content, but our GMs are willing to consider such on a case by case basis.
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To be clear, my statement of 'find a different GM' is for after you do talk to the GM and they still insist on a hard line of "Nothing printed before November 2023".
"Nothing printed before November 2023" is a very radical decision specially because we already have some remastered errata for SoM and DA and we expect that all post APG books will get some erratas to adjust to remastered rule books.
But I can see many GMs restricting CRB and APG when they already have PC1 and PC2 that was designed to substitute the CRB and APG specifically.
Why were some spells not Remastered ?A bit of speculation on my part - but there are at least hints for it.
The reason varies between spells.
Some spells didn't get included by name because they are OGL famous - such as Magic Missile.
Some spells didn't get included simply because of the smaller size of the book between CRB and PC1. Something has to be cut.
Some of the OGL spells got renamed and included in a new form - such as the mentioned Magic Missile becoming Force Barrage.
And I expect and speculate that some spells that didn't get included in PC1 either because of space needs or OGL problems will eventually have equivalents created if needed and be reprinted in future books. I would put Mirror Image and Stinking Cloud into that category.
Remaster is a mix of license adjustment, rebalance and errata. So I expect that some content would designedly removed due one or both reasons.
I think some problematic spells will be quietly left behind, like Synesthesia.
If not reprinted in PC2 Synesthesia will be an example of this. The designers know how famous this spell is it's unlikely that they would remove it due book space limitation when we have other less famous/useful spells to remove for this reason.
So if Synesthesia won't be added to PC2 due the rebalance and errata IMO this will reinforce the argument for those that don't want to mix both pre and post remaster rule books to restrict the usage at all.
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So this is speculation. You don't have a problem in any current game, you are worried that in the future the PFS system will revoke access to this material. Is that correct?
I worry about PFS and home group GMs both, yes.
I think the issue with both mirror image and stinking cloud is that even with different names the mechanics for those spells is almost identical to another games and the implementation of the spell effect is just too “this is a D&D spell” to fit easily into the ORC game for the player core 1. PF2 force barrage is mechanically different enough to be its own thing, as it is so tied to the unique 3 action economy, and fireball and lightning bolt are probably too generic and in way too many different IPs to really worry about. The might have just needed some more time to think what to do with those spells to make them more PF2 unique.
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If not reprinted in PC2 Synesthesia will be an example of this. The designers know how famous this spell is it's unlikely that they would remove it due book space limitation when we have other less famous/useful spells to remove for this reason.
So if Synesthesia won't be added to PC2 due the rebalance and errata IMO this will reinforce the argument for those that don't want to mix both pre and post remaster.
I think this is the best argument for Synesthesia making it into player core 2. If they nerf it, that is that. If they just never print it again, it remains in this weird grey area as one of the best spells in the game but with questionable legitimacy. Seems needlessly decisive. That said, because it is so strong Paizo may be carefully weighing what to do with it. A big part of their remaster narrative is course correcting on spells being over nerfed, and nerfing a favorite spell could upset people. Buuuuut it is real strong, particularly with the Resentment.
By contrast, I won't care as much about Mirror Image or Stinking Cloud being reprinted because they were never that good in PF2. I don't really see people fighting over them.