RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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I heard a rumor that spells will no longer have the verbal and somatic component traits in Remastered PFS. Is this true? If so where might I find that rule/errata?
See this document, which says "players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible."
Player Core removes spell components from the game. Instead, spells have relevant traits. The Cast a Spell activity also has been changed so that spellcasting always requires gestures and verbal incantations unless said otherwise.
Casting a spell requires the caster to make gestures
and utter incantations, so being unable to speak prevents
spellcasting for most casters.
What this means is that all spells now require speaking, which automatically adds the auditory trait to Cast a Spell. Spells with verbal components now simply have the concentrate trait. Spells with somatic components now simply have the manipulate trait. Spells now have "costs" instead of material components and "loci" instead of focus components.
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Spells with verbal components now simply have the concentrate trait. Spells with somatic components now simply have the manipulate trait. Spells now have "costs" instead of material components and "loci" instead of focus components.
So where is that rule listed? The one that says you swap out the old traits for different traits.
Because I haven't been able to find it.
It's more a case of they are never mentioned as existing in the Remaster, therefore they don't exist.
If it's true that the traits have been removed, but there's no written rule that says to replace them with other traits, then it looks to me like enemies with reactions that would normally work against spells are going to have them fail against casters who opt to use legacy spells.
As a PFS GM who must follow the rules, I have concerns about what this might mean for game balance.
What this means is that all spells now require speaking, which automatically adds the auditory trait to Cast a Spell.
Source? Adding the auditory trait to nearly every spell sounds incorrect to me.
A spell or effect with the auditory trait has its effect only if the target can hear it.
Being deaf should not make someone immune to force barrage.
Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Bellevue
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"Casting a spell requires the caster to make gestures and utter incantations, so being unable to speak prevents spellcasting for most casters." Player core 299.
If you review the spell lists in Player's Core, most have the manipulate trait, the concentrate trait, or both.
Older spells (with somatic or material components) have the manipulate trait. Core Rulebook 303.
Reactive Strike triggers off (among other things) "a creature within reach uses a manipulate action" Player Core 138.
Attack of Opportunity uses the same language with respect to a manipulate action. Core Rulebook p 142.
Remaster won't cause either reaction to fail vs spells based on changing the traits.
Auditory is a trait in both editions. In both, spells tagged with that trait require the target to be able to hear it. See the index in the back of either book. That should only apply to spells with that trait. Force Barrage does not have that trait.
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But older spells had the manipulate trait BECAUSE of the somatic or material component.
If the Remaster removed the somatic and material components from legacy spells, but makes no mention that they retained the manipulate trait, then I don't see how they do.
As a PFS GM beholden to the rules, that's why I'm trying to find the rule that covers this.
Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Turku
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AFAIK, nothing says that old spells suddenly lost components: Old spells, unless they were reprinted, still have the components, so they provoke as usual. New spells don't have components, instead they have the traits (concentrate or manipulate) built in, so they provoke as normal.
In effect, nothing really changed, just how the information is presented (either somatic/verbal components for the old spells, or concentrate/manipulate trait for the new spells).
"PFS GMs must follow STRICT RAW" is a myth.
As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience.
If you truly, honestly, as a GM believe that the fact that the new CORE book doesn't mention verbal and somatic traits means that old spells suddenly lost those traits and that that means Produce Flame doesn't provoke an AoO (But Ignition, the new version of it, does) then sure, you can make that argument BUT you'd be 99% wrong on what the actual intent is.
I heard a rumor that spells will no longer have the verbal and somatic component traits in Remastered PFS. Is this true? If so where might I find that rule/errata?
You're Kinda correct. Spells that have been (re)printed in player Core or GM Core don't have verbal or somatic components (and going forward, new spells they print won't have those either). They still provoke though, because they have the Concentrate and Manipulate component.
If an option has been reprinted in Core, you need to treat that as an errata and use the new version. If it has not been reprinted in Core, you're still using the old version as-is.If the Remaster removed the somatic and material components from legacy spells, but makes no mention that they retained the manipulate trait, then I don't see how they do.
Remaster did not remove the components from legacy spells. Nothing, anywhere, says it did. What it did do is that it Reprinted some of the legacy spells, and THOSE now have the traits instead of the components.
Bonus fact: Note that while a lot of the damaging cantrips did not get a reprint in core, the PF2e Errata lists all of them with the change that they lose the "plus your ability bonus" from damage, and get an extra die instead. Check the errata for specific cantrips.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Spells with verbal components now simply have the concentrate trait. Spells with somatic components now simply have the manipulate trait. Spells now have "costs" instead of material components and "loci" instead of focus components.So where is that rule listed? The one that says you swap out the old traits for different traits.
Because I haven't been able to find it.
Spell components are technically NOT traits. They're just a rule that's part of the Cast a Spell activity. Player Core changed Cast a Spell so it no longer has this rule.
No explicit substitution is necessary because all spells with verbal components already have the concentrate trait and all spells with somatic components already have the manipulate trait. Page 5 of Remaster Core Preview document makes it clear that spells are reformatted so these traits are directly on the spell statblocks instead of using spell components as a placeholder.
What this means is that all spells now require speaking, which automatically adds the auditory trait to Cast a Spell.Source? Adding the auditory trait to nearly every spell sounds incorrect to me.
The spell effects do NOT gain the auditory trait. The Cast a Spell activity gains the auditory trait because:
Spellcasting and Cast a Spell now require speaking (Player Core 299).
All speech has the auditory trait (Player Core 419).
Actions and activities with the auditory trait require speaking (Player Core 453).
The auditory trait makes the distinction that auditory effects require the target to hear it while auditory actions require speech to perform.
auditory (trait) Auditory actions and effects rely on sound. An
action with the auditory trait can be successfully performed
only if the creature using the action can speak or otherwise
produce the required sounds. A spell or effect with the
auditory trait has its effect only if the target can hear it. This
applies only to sound-based parts of the effect, as determined
by the GM. This is different from a sonic effect, which still
affects targets who can’t hear it (such as deaf targets) as long
as the effect itself makes sound.