Remastered Fighter & Bastard Sword

[Bluemagetim]

Honestly the fighter is probably supposed to be boring but reliable.
its the cool magic weapons you find; swinging them with the fighters superior training knowing your the most reliable hitter is what they do.

[dirkdragonslayer]

The Raven Black wrote:

I now wonder what is the best class to build Captain America.

Oh, good question. Probably fighter, but maybe monk since he punches a lot too. Maybe Callow May (Iron Hag) changeling for cold iron punches? Shield augmentation let's you give the shield the thrown trait, and then a returning rune.

Another fun idea, "the Wall" meme from dark souls, dual-wield shields. Maybe one with a shield boss and one with a shield spike, or maybe replace the spike shield with an augmented shield (with trip and shove). I don't fully know how I would build it.

[Easl]

Captain Morgan wrote:

Fighter has to choose a weapon group to specialize in for their damage enhancer to apply.

They start Expert at all simple and martial, which is nonspecific. And while the weapon group IS a limitation, the most common ones (sword, axe, club, hammer, spear, probably some I'm forgetting) allow that character to still switch between x-and-board, 2-H, and dual wielding because these groups have both 1-H and 2-H options. So it does not lock the character into a specific play style the way a "2-H subclass" or "sword and board subclass" would.

But we are quibbling. You are right, we agree on the big things about the class.

[S. J. Digriz]

I’d like to see some higher level non magical weapons, like a sword with the two hand d12, and slashing versatile piercing traits. I’d call it a knightly sword, but it would represent weapons like the Oakshot Type 18a-c, and Oakshot type 15a swords.

It’s weird that they didn’t do that as a solution to the balance issue for more kinds of weapons. They did that for heavy armor, and they did that with bows. It would actually,she in game sense, too.

[Sibelius Eos Owm]

In 1e there was the Shield Champion archetype for Brawlers. 3rd level feat involved throwing shields. Wouldn't mind seeing something like that come back XD

[Ryangwy]

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

No, what I’m saying is that those special interesting things aren’t special or interesting at all. What is interesting about calming down to take a better shot, or swinging two weapons or shoving brutishly or being a lil wuicker to stow and retrieve weapons. Not a lot. And none of my houserules do anything to *nerf* the fighter. I’m *not taking anything away* from them, and are proposing to give them more. It feels strange to me that you seemed to get the *opposite* opinion of what I felt I presented.

I mean, those are very tricky maneuvers people in real life train very hard to achieve, and even looking at the history of 3.PF is worth one or two Fighter bonus feats, which means non fighters get them delayed (like Fighter Archetype).

Dual Slice deserves a callout here, because you can swing two weapons anyway, just without benefit, and the rogue and ranger have their own take on a first level feat for two weapons anyway, that clearly do class identity thing. I think you've normalised the Fighter feats when they really aren't that normal, and not considering that other classes have their own takes on these fighting style deliberately (and you can take Archer/Mauler/Dual dedication if you really want the Fighter take anyway)

[thenobledrake]

S. J. Digriz wrote:

It’s weird that they didn’t do that as a solution to the balance issue for more kinds of weapons. They did that for heavy armor, and they did that with bows. It would actually,she in game sense, too.

In the case of heavy armor it's not outright better than lower-level armor options because of the unavoidable speed penalty as a con to the +1 total AC pro.

And in regards to composite bows that's the opposite of a solution to balance because they do exactly what Paizo was largely trying to avoid with the weapon design of PF2 and create a clear best-in-class weapon because the downside of needing a few points of strength is offset by how easy it is to afford a few points of strength, especially given all the other benefits provided. So it's not a pros and cons situation, it's just a complete upgrade for characters that would use it.

[lemeres]

aiglos wrote:

Likewise Bastard Sword is still the only straight bladed sword or knife that doesn't have Versatile. Also the cost makes no sense either, four times the cost of a long sword or twice the cost of a Great Sword!

Did they change anything at all that would make Versatile P useful?

Piercing damage has traditionally been extremely situational. Most creatures with a weakness to it also have weakness to slashing. So unless you are fighting rakshasa under water, it has been limited in use.

I could even argue that the older DnD editions relegated piercing as a punishment for weapons that were deemed too good- such as archery and half decent simple weapons that could be used by non martial classes (back when that was a thing that actually mattered).

[PossibleCabbage]

I mean, FWIW the rapier, cane sword, dandpatta, and probably a few more are "straight bladed swords or knives" that don't have versatile.

[graystone]

RaptorJesues wrote:

Boy, do I hate getting this free thing I do not want. Class ruined. F tier. Gimme back my money pls

It's the way I feel about the Thaumaturge and the Dubious Knowledge skill feat. I have to take the feat, can't turn it off and it activates automatically... I'd play the class more often if I didn't have to beg DM's to let me NOT take the free thing that ruins the class for me.

[Ryangwy]

graystone wrote:

It's the way I feel about the Thaumaturge and the Dubious Knowledge skill feat. I have to take the feat, can't turn it off and it activates automatically... I'd play the class more often if I didn't have to beg DM's to let me NOT take the free thing that ruins the class for me.

Dubious Knowledge has an actual drawback, though. Shield Block not only has no drawback, it's also given to so many classes it should be clear it's valued about as much as medium armour proficiency

[Dark_Schneider]

The Raven Black wrote:

I now wonder what is the best class to build Captain America.

If you allow to throw shields, someone with dwarf Returning Throw feat, Shield Block, Reflexive Shield and Adamantine Sturdy shield. Can also get other shield feats if wanted.

Notice that you can get the shield stuff with Bastion archetype, so you could use Monk as class, and Adopted Ancestry if don't want to use a dwarf.

The Bastard Sword feels great in versatility as you can in the same round:
release hand (free), take a potion, drink the potion, strike (d8)
Then the next round:
Grip with 2 hands, strike (d12), strike (d12).
Greatsword is much more limiting, and with longsword you are stuck with d8. So unless the foe is resistant to slashing, is a nice weapon to use.