Goblin 1 ends his turn 10 feet away from Fighter.
Fighter stands still and readies an action to attack any goblin that enters melee range.
Wizard casts Create Pit in a 10x10 square in front of Fighter. Goblin 1 fails his Reflex save and falls in.
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extra-dimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). ... Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space. In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it.
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Goblin 2 moves next to Fighter.Fighter's readied action goes off, and he attacks Goblin 2. His initiative changes.
GM rules: Fighter ended his turn adjacent to a Create Pit pit and must make a Reflex save.
Fighter succeeds and doesn't fall in. Goblin finishes his interrupted turn, attacks Fighter, and also succeeds his Reflex save. Combat continues normally.
Ready
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (thought the action that you ready might do so).Readying an Action
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.
Initiative Consequences of Readying
Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.
Fighter accepted the ruling in the moment and rolled the save to move the action along, but this is a situation that will likely come up again with this group.
Fighter wasn't standing adjacent to a pit when he ended his turn. Nothing in the Ready text suggests that his turn resumes and then promptly ends when his readied action goes off.Sorry if this was asked before. There's a lot of search results for readied actions and I couldn't find anything about this specific part.
Does completing a readied action count as ending your turn?
yea. fighter's initiative changed to his new by the ready action so when he finished it his turn end. doesn't matter that he separated his turn. it end after his ready action. and interesting case would be if his ready action didn't trigger, in that case until his next turn phase his turn didn't finish. the question would be if it is triggered right before his turn on the next turn or just not trigger at all (unless he again doesn't move).
i would say it does so just before his next turn. otherwise one could potentially keep reading action next to the pit and never need to roll.
Only in a situation where a creature had to make two saves (or had to make none) for the same thing with no reasonable change in situation would you need to worry about.
I was actually thinking of posing the exact situation you used as an argument against the spell triggering twice. Spells and effects like this usually trigger once per round, and the text of the spell tells you when that trigger happens. For continual damage, that happens on the turn of whoever caused it. For gazes and bleed, that happens at the beginning of the affected creature's turn and doesn't happen twice per round just for delaying and readying (minus exceptions like yours).
For Create Pit, that happens at the end of each creature's turn. If the rules of the game said that when you take a readied action, your turn resumes and then ends again, I'd accept that, but the rules don't say that. They merely say that your initiative changes after the readied action is done.i would say it does so just before his next turn. otherwise one could potentially keep reading action next to the pit and never need to roll.
This isn't actually true. If Fighter's readied action never triggered, then initiative would eventually come back to him as normal. If he didn't move and Readied again as a standard action, then his turn would end, and he'd have to make the Reflex save.
Actually, I found the perfect counterpoint. Path of Glory.
Allies that end their turns on a glowing square (including one who falls unconscious in the square) are healed of 1 point of damage.
Fighter: I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now. I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now...
or
Fighter: I ready an action to draw my weapon if I see a goblin. My turn ends, so I heal 1 point of damage. My readied action just went off, so I draw my weapon. My turn ended again, so I heal 1 point of damage.
Obviously, this would not fly. Good effects that trigger at the end of your turn don't trigger twice, so why would bad ones?
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Actually, I found the perfect counterpoint. Path of Glory.
Allies that end their turns on a glowing square (including one who falls unconscious in the square) are healed of 1 point of damage.Fighter: I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now. I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now...
or
Fighter: I ready an action to draw my weapon if I see a goblin. My turn ends, so I heal 1 point of damage. My readied action just went off, so I draw my weapon. My turn ended again, so I heal 1 point of damage.
Obviously, this would not fly. Good effects that trigger at the end of your turn don't trigger twice, so why would bad ones?
If you delay, you don't take a turn [i]at all[/i[]. You are playing with the limit of language when it is clear how it is meant to work.
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Actually, I found the perfect counterpoint. Path of Glory.
Allies that end their turns on a glowing square (including one who falls unconscious in the square) are healed of 1 point of damage.Fighter: I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now. I delay my action and heal 1 point. I'll take my turn right now...
or
Fighter: I ready an action to draw my weapon if I see a goblin. My turn ends, so I heal 1 point of damage. My readied action just went off, so I draw my weapon. My turn ended again, so I heal 1 point of damage.
Obviously, this would not fly. Good effects that trigger at the end of your turn don't trigger twice, so why would bad ones?
If you delay, you don't take a turn at all. You are playing with the limit of language when it is clear how it is meant to work.
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As others have said, this wouldn't count as ending your turn twice.
However, in this particular case it's easy to apply common sense. Why is the save required? Because the squares adjacent to the pit are sloped and tricky footing. If the fighter made the save on his turn and did not move with his readied action he doesn't need to make another save. If his readied action involves moving and he ends in a square next to the pit, he should make a save.
Does readying an action end your round? I don’t see anything in the description of readying an action that says it actually ends the round. There are restrictions on what actions you can take, but nothing specifies your round is over. For that matter neither does delaying your action. To me it seems like your round has been suspended to be taken at a later time. Now once you take the readied action that would end your round. If the turn ends before you take your action that would also end your round. Both actions are designed to extend your round, not end them.
In the case of the example from the first post the fighter would be required to make the save after his attack went off.
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The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun.
The readied action occurs outside of your turn. This is the same as performing an immediate action out of your turn. It’s not a “mini-turn”, it’s just not a turn at all.
I do admit this is wonky with this spell interaction and house ruling either way seems reasonable. But you technically can’t end a turn, if you weren’t in one to begin with
You don’t even have to end the turn with the ready action action. You could ready an action, then perform a move and swift. And then your turn would end. Technically, you could even trigger your readied action while still within the turn your readied it.
If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character
In other words, it is expected that you could trigger while within your own turn.
You are playing with the limit of language when it is clear how it is meant to work.
Yeah, I was doing that on purpose to make a point. Anyway, the readied action example I gave was more relevant anyway.
As others have said, this wouldn't count as ending your turn twice.
However, in this particular case it's easy to apply common sense. Why is the save required? Because the squares adjacent to the pit are sloped and tricky footing. If the fighter made the save on his turn and did not move with his readied action he doesn't need to make another save. If his readied action involves moving and he ends in a square next to the pit, he should make a save.
I agree! Even though RAW I think he technically wouldn't have to, Rules as Intended, he should.
The spirit of the various Pit spells are "After the initial effect, the spellcaster creates a large hazard in a fixed location. Unless they're forced into or around the pit, each character chooses on their turn whether they brave the dangerous terrain or avoid it." Usually, this happens when they move up to the pit on their turn, or they start their turn next to the pit and decide to not move.
That isn't what happened with my group's Fighter, though. He didn't make the decision to stay next to the pit because it appeared after his initiative passed. Normally, he'd get the decision to move away or hang and bang on his next turn, but it happened early for him because of the GM's call on his readied action to attack.
However, it looks like readied actions, attacks of opportunity, and immediate actions are all in the same umbrella of "actions you take not on your turn" in terms of Rules As Written, so none of them should cause any effects that trigger when your turn ends.
Readying an action to run to the pit is perhaps a loophole abuse, which Rules As Intended says should provoke a save.
Oh, right. I even quoted the 5' step thing in my original post and forgot about it.
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As a GM, I would say that, if the fighter chooses to take his readied action, he chooses to be subject to the pit dangers.
He gets the benefit of making his readied action, and he pays the drawback of "ending" his turn on the border of the pit (assuming he doesn't move away).
Sadly, the Pit line of spells has plenty of problems.
Can you cast it on a space occupied by walls, trees, and other unmovable items?
Does it deforms local spacetime like a black hole, so the original terrain becomes the rim of the pit? Or instead it "sends" the original terrain away?
The basic concept is interesting (but most of the higher-level spells are too powerful) but it would require a lot of explanations to be applied consistently at every gaming table.
"The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun."
Since it is after your turn is over, then I assume performing a readied action is not starting a new turn or delaying the end of a turn. It can make things complicated if you consider a readied action can start and end a turn
nice find!
so basically when finish setting a ready action your turn ends. and the ready happen between turns (like an immediate action). so anything that triggers at the end of your turn will happen after you declare preparing the ready action before moving the turn to the next in line.
then if the ready was triggered your initiative in the next round start right before the trigger for the ready action, and if it didn't trigger you start your turn the same as before.