Broken Soul Template
So a Regenerate spell from a level 13 Cleric should in theory fix their body, but can you help them out reasonably sooner than level 13?
Just writing a character's backstory, and they will have a missing wife or maybe daughter who ends up as one of these, so I was wondering how quickly they could fix her once they are reunited.
Kill them, and let a level 7 druid reincarnate them, though they can choose not to come back to life. Then you can ready to reunite with your wife/daughter (goblin version)
Or if you rich enough, you can consider to purchase scroll or magic service instead of doing it yourself
I don’t think a broken soul can be fixed. The transformation is more than just physical torture; it shatters the mind and soul of the target. Regeneration only fixes the physical problems. A wish may be able to do it, but anything less probably is not going to work.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: A wish may be able to do it, but anything less probably is not going to work I second that. When it comes to "soul damage" it generally takes a Miracle or Wish to fix. I do not remember which ones off the tope of my head, but I know a few Adventure paths touch on this kind of thing in passing.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I don’t think a broken soul can be fixed. The transformation is more than just physical torture; it shatters the mind and soul of the target. Regeneration only fixes the physical problems. A wish may be able to do it, but anything less probably is not going to work. I forgot to mention the mind, but as a form of insanity, it can be cured with the following spells, per the Gamemastery Guide and Horror Adventures:
Wish, Miracle, Limited Wish, Greater Restoration, Heal, and Psychic Surgery.
The process that creates a broken soul changes the creature in fundamental ways that go beyond the methods used to create it. Its attacks are supernatural abilities not extraordinary abilities. Its mere touch can cause wounds to appear on a creature. This is no longer the creature it was it is a completely new creature. Regeneration or even Heal will not work, because they simply fix the problems that caused the transformation in the first place. Only something that can change the past like a Wish, or a Miracle is going to work.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: The process that creates a broken soul changes the creature in fundamental ways that go beyond the methods used to create it. Its attacks are supernatural abilities not extraordinary abilities. Its mere touch can cause wounds to appear on a creature. This is no longer the creature it was it is a completely new creature. Regeneration or even Heal will not work, because they simply fix the problems that caused the transformation in the first place. Only something that can change the past like a Wish, or a Miracle is going to work. I would agree with you if it weren't the fact that most people have some inherent magical ability (remember, supernatural abilities are magic in nature). For example, a Fighter that takes his next level in Sorcerer isn't considered a new creature. They always had the potential powers of a Sorcerer, they just never knew how to use those powers till now.
The potential to become a Broken Soul exists in most creatures (of Intelligence 3 or higher) on Golarion, but you'd be very hard pressed to find any human on Earth (Earth during World War I exists in Pathfinder canon, thanks to an AP) that has the potential to become a Broken Soul, and we know this because laws restricting torture didn't always exist, yet no human in Earth's recorded history has ever become a Broken Soul.
So all you have to do is cure the physical and mental damage, and they shouldn't have the trauma anymore. Regenerate can undo the physical damage, and all the spells I previously listed can cure madness/insanity, so can cure the mental damage, so that should work.
The question is now "can you do this earlier than level 13" which I don't think you can. Of course, I could save money for this, and hire a Cleric of level 13 while I am a lower level, but I'll have to find some way to drag the Broken Soul to a Cleric, or get a Cleric to agree to make a house call.
Trauma usually lasts longer than the injuries that created it. PTS (Post-Traumatic Stress) is a real thing. It is obvious that we disagree on this topic, so there is not really anything left for me to say. I am going to bow out of this thread for this reason.
Good luck finding your answer.
Reksew_Trebla wrote: Broken Soul Template
So a Regenerate spell from a level 13 Cleric should...
you posit a GM Dramatic/game story question. Then assume a Regenerate spell will remove the template. This shows that you really don't understand the issue at hand.
It will take a story/adventure to overcome this dramatic hurdle and resolve when the GM feels it should after suitable trials and successes. An example would be the story of Valais in the PFS 1 Scenarios.
While you can create a PC backstory using various information, that is not what the templates are for.
Azothath wrote: Reksew_Trebla wrote: Broken Soul Template
So a Regenerate spell from a level 13 Cleric should...
you posit a GM Dramatic/game story question. Then assume a Regenerate spell will remove the template. This shows that you really don't understand the issue at hand.
It will take a story/adventure to overcome this dramatic hurdle and resolve when the GM feels it should after suitable trials and successes. An example would be the story of Valais in the PFS 1 Scenarios.
While you can create a PC backstory using various information, that is not what the templates are for. Regenerate fixes broken bodies, while Wish, Miracle, Limited Wish, Greater Restoration, Heal, and Psychic Surgery all fix broken minds. That is literally the sum total of what makes a Broken Soul a Broken Soul. As for the possible alignment change (which isn't even guaranteed, since the Broken Soul template only says they are usually Chaotic Evil), that can be solved with roleplaying rehabilitating them with trusted NPC allies (or maybe retiring the PC so they can rehabilitate the wife/daughter themself, which I am also considering).
I get that this is not how you would run this, but this is how this works by the rules.
I was going to stay out of this, but there is nothing in the rules that state regeneration will do this. If you choose to do this in your game that is your right as the GM under rule zero. But to claim this is RAW is incorrect, this is a house rule.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I was going to stay out of this, but there is nothing in the rules that state regeneration will do this. If you choose to do this in your game that is your right as the GM under rule zero. But to claim this is RAW is incorrect, this is a house rule. Regenerate spell wrote: The subject's severed body members (fingers, toes, hands, feet, arms, legs, tails, or even heads of multiheaded creatures), broken bones, and ruined organs grow back. That seems pretty clear cut that the Regenerate spell restores a broken body.
Wish wrote: Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three wishes for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish.
Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes: one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from gaining a permanent negative level.
Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend's failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)
In Pathfinder wishes are limited. They are way weaker than in previous versions of the game.
Miracle seems the only spell with the potential of working, and only if the deity granting it is willing to help.
An alternate option could be Wish plus Greater Restoration and maybe Atonement to restore the original alignment.
Personally, as a GM I would require the development of a specific ritual, tied to the person who was changed into a Broken Soul. Something like making him/her remember his/her life as a child of the moment when his/her first child was born.
As Azothath said, it will require a suitable trial and success, not simply having access to powerful spells.
I think this might depends on how you determine the broken soul.
For example, if you have a paladin brother, and somehow he encountered some unfortunate accidents and corrupted. When you find him again a few years later, he is already an anti-paladin. Will casting wish on him able to remove his corruption and turn him into a normal ex-paladin?
The broken soul's ability shows that they already turn into something twisted. You can cast Wish to clear someone's insanity, but you can't revert someone who have turn into a Deep One.
I guess the main argument is that simply using a spell (even it is a powerful spell) to cure a broken soul is too mechanical. Would be better if can make a questline for it.
Reksew_Trebla wrote: Azothath wrote: Reksew_Trebla wrote: Broken Soul Template
So a Regenerate spell from a level 13 Cleric should...
you posit a GM Dramatic/game story question. Then assume a Regenerate spell will remove the template. This shows that you really don't understand the issue at hand.
It will take a story/adventure to overcome this dramatic hurdle and resolve when the GM feels it should after suitable trials and successes. An example would be the story of Valais in the PFS 1 Scenarios.
While you can create a PC backstory using various information, that is not what the templates are for. Regenerate fixes broken bodies, while Wish, Miracle, Limited Wish, Greater Restoration, Heal, and Psychic Surgery all fix broken minds. That is literally the sum total of what makes a Broken...
I get that this is not how you would run this, but this is how this works by the rules. again, these rules are for GM use, see Templates to create varied challenges or help mold/define a dramatic line. They are generally not for PC use (as there are a few exceptions for Simple Templates via Summoning, etc).
Should a GM, or you acting as a GM, determine that these spells would fix the template then that is your Home Game decision. Otherwise (as a Player, which is where your chat to date seems to be) you are assuming what your Home GM should accept and determine your plan is rational without talking to them which is very presumptive and only lead to more conflict at the table (which you have created).
I'll repeat that it is possible that the PCs just casting two spells could fix it and is a well defined plot resolution, but that is a Home GMs decision to make. It is not RAW as there's no defined 'cure' for Templates.
so, is your plan rational? Yes, it is an 'easy' high level plan to remove the descriptive elements of the template. Again, there is no RAW method to remove a/the template (so it will persist).
Can it be fixed using lower level spells? Probably, but it will take more time and castings AND skill checks to reach the same power level as the 'easy' fix. There's always the 'kill & recycle' plan but that won't fix the 'soul' part.
There's always Baleful Polymorph with a couple of failed saves. IDK that it would remove the template but the new form could overwrite the condition.
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