RotR - "When a player encounters..." simultaneous effects

[Dark Nero]

1. The Rulebook says: "When a player encounters the villain, each player at any other location may immediately attempt to fulfill the When Closing requirement for this location."
2. The Incendiary Cloud spells says "Display this card when a character encounters a monster. While displayed, add 2d4 and the Fire trait to combat checks to defeat monsters..."

What happens first - attempt to temporarily close a location or displaying the Incendiary Cloud? Reference the Rulebook or official FAQ please.

[skizzerz]

Do yourself a favor and grab the PDF of the Mummy's Mask rulebook. There's some irrelevant stuff if you're playing RotR but the core rules are the same and it's the most refined version of them. I'll be quoting the villain encounter ordering from that:

1. Attempt to Temporarily Close Open Locations.
2. Encounter the Villain.
3. If You Defeat the Villain, Close the Villain’s Location.
4. Check to See Whether the Villain Escapes.
5. If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!

Incendiary Cloud (if you're trying to use it against the villain) would be played in step 2, after all attempts to temporarily close locations have been resolved.

[eddiephlash]

The Core rulebook back cover explicitly breaks down the steps:

Core Rulebook wrote:

Encountering a Card

Apply any effects that happen when you encounter a card. Apply any evasion effects.
Villain Step: Attempt to guard distant locations.
Apply any effects that happen before acting.
Attempt the check.
Attempt the next check, if needed.
Apply any effects that happen after acting.
Resolve the encounter.
Avenge the encounter.
Villain Step: If you defeat the villain, close the villain’s location. Villain Step: Determine whether the villain escapes.
Villain Step: If the villain has nowhere to escape to, you win!

So in your case, Incendiary Cloud can be played before the guard/temp close attempts.

[eddiephlash]

Whoa, ninja'd by Skizzerz, and with an opposite answer. ymmv apparently.

[skizzerz]

eddiephlash wrote:

Whoa, ninja'd by Skizzerz, and with an opposite answer. ymmv apparently.

Seems that this changed as part of Core. So if you're playing with the old rulebook (the one I quoted), it's after temp closes. If you're playing with Core rules, it's before guarding. I was quoting pre-Core rules since this was about RotR and mapping all of the old cards to Core requires a fair amount of mental effort that some people may find reduces their enjoyment of the game.

So, we're both right, depending on circumstance :)

[eddiephlash]

I also remember that at some point, a distinction was made between "when you encounter" and "before you act" being separate phases which also further complicates (or clarifies) things.

[Whipstitch]

So, in Society play*, you can play Incendiary Cloud before temp closing (guarding) locations.

*I suspected you were in Society play because another question asked about freely playing a card, which wouldn't normally be a concern in RotR.

[Jenceslav]

I would like to add that the "Cloud"-type spells are somewhat simplified in the Core wording. They no longer have a restriction when they can be played, so you can play the Incendiary Cloud whenever you like - provided you stick with Core wording.
https://pacg.fandom.com/wiki/Corrosive_Storm

Core wrote:

Freely display. While displayed:

On combat checks, add 2d6 and the Acid trait.
...

vs.

RotR wrote:

Display this card when a character encounters a monster. While displayed, add 2d6 and the Acid trait to combat checks to defeat monsters.

I've converted all of the original cards (from all campaigns and expansions, 3291 boons and banes in total) into self-consistent Core wording, so the Cloud spells have the same template. If you need a RotR excerpt, just let me know ;)

[Dark Nero]

skizzerz and eddiephlash, thanks for the quotes from respective rulebooks, that's a useful info to consider. Since I am now playing the RotR box, I think I should stick to the WotR rulebook (because they are for the same 1st "generation"), should I?

Whipstitch wrote:

So, in Society play*, you can play Incendiary Cloud before temp closing (guarding) locations.

Society play is yet a dark territory for me. I have the PDFs printed, but still need to search how can I play those at home with my RotR and SnS boxes.

May I ask you - in Society play, if you only have cards from RotR and SnS boxes (+all the scenario add-ons), which rulebook do you follow?

Jenceslav wrote:

I've converted all of the original cards (from all campaigns and expansions, 3291 boons and banes in total) into self-consistent Core wording, so the Cloud spells have the same template. If you need a RotR excerpt, just let me know ;)

Can you share a link to your work? I will buy Core set soon and I will definitely want to combine cards after some time.

[Jenceslav]

When playing pre-Core, try to stick to the latest available rulebook, that is: Mummy's Mask + for things specific to the adventure path, refer to the rulebook. I do not believe there is anything special about RotR gameplay-wise, apart from a single card Runeforged Weapons (at least mechanically).

I have not uploaded my translation of pre-Core into Core wording anywhere, especially because I am not sure if there are no possible copyright issues. The original wording is in PACG wiki, but not in an easily searchable database (like e.g. my XLS file). Additionally, it was a tremendous amount of work with possibility of omitting / misinterpreting some interactions - once I publish it anywhere, any mistakes are going to stay ;) I'll think about it.

[Whipstitch]

Dark Nero wrote:

Since I am now playing the RotR box, I think I should stick to the WotR rulebook (because they are for the same 1st "generation"), should I?

As jenceslav notes, Mummy's Mask rulebook is usually the preferred reference for pre-Core rules. Paizo improved the rulebooks with each new set.

Dark Nero wrote:

May I ask you - in Society play, if you only have cards from RotR and SnS boxes (+all the scenario add-ons), which rulebook do you follow?

In Society play, you use the most recent rulebook, which is the Core Rulebook, but you refer to older rulebooks for rules specific to that set's cards (like using the Skull & Shackles rulebook for ship and plunder rules).

I'm sorry I muddied the water by bringing up Society play. Since you made references to playing cards "freely", it sounded like you were using Core Set rules because that was a term that was introduced with the Core Set. I thought, "Playing RotR set with Core Set rules . . . must be Society play."