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If I already have several PF 2E rulebooks, is buying the Remaster worth it for me?
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It strongly depends of how hyped you are with new rules and class changes.
If you are hype with new rules like for focus points that can far more easily get and improve, spirit damage in place of alignment damage, the many little class and spell changes. I think it worth.
If you aren't hyped so no, just keep the CRB playing normally until the AoN is updated.
The remaster changes many little things of the game and clarify many other little things for good but the game is basically the same.
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For me, it's not.
I understand the need for the Remaster after everything that happened with the OGL and the creation of the ORC. However, I already have a lot of money invested in Pathfinder (1e and 2e) and can't justify paying $120 for the new cores (or even $40 for the PDFs). I play 1e more than 2e anyway; I enjoy it more and I already own most of the books for it.
When I do play 2e, I'll probably stick to the books I already own, and if I want to play the Remastered, version I'll likely use AoN to look up the rules.
It's mostly a cost-for-content issue for me. Some of the new stuff looks cool, but I can't shell out that much money for it, as much as I'd love to support Paizo.
It can be viewed as a larger than usual scale errata. So if you already have the original Core book, you can simply use it and pull the remaster conversion information. And that is assuming you choose to play by remastered rules with Alignment gone and such. You can easily choose to simply play with the portions of the remaster that you as a group like. And use the books you have. As you presumably buy more books over time, you may get to a point where it might be worth it to invest in an updated copy of Players or GM Core to keep from needing to reference the larger remaster conversion/errata. But as mentioned, even the new books will have a little bit of Errata to them.
I ordered the new ones, because I could afford to, and want to support the transition. Back in my college days, I might have just stuck a printed off packet of sheets in the back of the core book I had and dealt with it until I graduated and got a job.
Both are perfectly valid prospects in my opinion.
After buying both I can confidently say: no. Unless you are using the book instead of something like AoN, it's basically the same, just formatted differently.
You're better off just reading a changelog.
Amazingly, that's also what the Paizo leadership told us to begin with back in April.
Are my existing Pathfinder Second Edition books now obsolete?
No. With the exception of a few minor variations in terminology and a slightly different mix of monsters, spells, and magic items, the rules remain largely unchanged. A pre-Remaster stat block, spell, monster, or adventure should work with the remastered rules without any problems.
Not meaning to be rude to you specifically, demlin.
But I am absolutely giving a big fat, "I told you so" to all of the people that have been crying for the last 6 months that the sky is falling and that this Remaster project is just a cash grab.
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If I already have several PF 2E rulebooks, is buying the Remaster worth it for me?
No, unless you're like me and still haven't learned the ruleset, so starting with the remaster rules will be less unlearning and relearning.
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And to be fair, I did get the .pdf copy of Player Core. One to support the company, and two to get the updated rules on release date.
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There are a lot of "nice to have" things in the Player Core.
Like the Witch buffs, the Warpriest cleric buff, and stuff like that.
The core chassis of the game is largely unchanged. So as long as you have a core rulebook and are willing to wait for Archives of Nethys to finally update, I'd say no. Not unless the thrill of buying books compels you, as it does me.
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Just to remember that there isn't an official "changelog" until now and most "changelogs" the are current published like the foundry's pf2e module remaster changes or community contributed things like Aquele Pedro's sheet are pretty incomplete in both lists, descriptions and details (and for PF2e a missing detail may change a lot of things, break builds, open possibilities and so on).
You may need to re-read many things when the AoN will be updated or may risk to get some player saying "no I read in the AoN that this works different" and points something that changed and you don't know pretty frequently if you are just using a changelog (unless someone make a really full comprehensive and big changelog containg all the diferences and yet you might need to re-read the new rule to not misunderstand some detail).
YHAS!
Nothing beats the thrill of page turning.
If I already have several PF 2E rulebooks, is buying the Remaster worth it for me?
If you want to give it a peak, I can invite you to my Demiplane group. You can browse through the Player Core and GM Core.
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Why is it risky to have a player tell you that something works differently?
Have you not read the rules forum here?
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Technically none of the books are "worth buying".
Just open up the archives website, open up libre office to a calculation document for a character sheet, and go.
But they're nice to haves.
I like having the player core. I'm a subscriber (5 subs) so I have it in both print and PDF.
Looking at 1000 layoffs over at Hasbro, I'm hoping my purchases help hold that off from happening over at Paizo. I'm hoping I'm not just adding a few gallons of fuel into some C-suiter's private jet (used to work for a $2-million/year book publisher who's owner had managed that... and yeah - our salaries sucked as a result).
But yeah.
Support the hobby. Enjoy the book.
Do you need it? No.
Is it nice to have? Yes.
If I already have several PF 2E rulebooks, is buying the Remaster worth it for me?No, unless you're like me and still haven't learned the ruleset, so starting with the remaster rules will be less unlearning and relearning.
This is precisely where I am at. I have the PF2 CRB, GMG, APG and Bestiary 1. In print. But given I still don’t quite grok the rules, and the process of unlearning PF1 still continues apace I’m definitely going to buy PC, GMC and Monster Core - none of the Remaster changes affect any sacred cows I don’t already have (and I haven’t found one change objectionable, they mostly seem like a good idea or quality of life improvements) and I want to be up to date with the ruleset I am learning.
I may wait for a few new printings however, given the level of errata. If that is how it works…I don’t find PDFs at all usable, so it will have to be dead-tree versions…
Strangely enough for someone who is an arch homebrewer, the Remaster has invigorated in me a desire to completely hack the ruleset…but I want a good grasp of just what I am hacking…
Owning the old books, I'm getting Player Core 1 and 2. Class revisions and a clearer presentation of the core rules seem worth it.
The other two I'll ignore. GMG is a cooler book than GM Core. And I see no use for a Monster Core that mostly exists to remove content for legal reasons. That's corporate lawyer stuff that doesn't benefit me as a gamer.
Owning the old books, I'm getting Player Core 1 and 2. Class revisions and a clearer presentation of the core rules seem worth it.
The other two I'll ignore. GMG is a cooler book than GM Core. And I see no use for a Monster Core that mostly exists to remove content for legal reasons. That's corporate lawyer stuff that doesn't benefit me as a gamer.
You make me rethink the GM Core, unless it has rules in it. I don’t really find either GMG I have that useful. But I’ll still get the Monster Core…
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GMG is on of the best books, as let's you to configure your game and fix some terrible core rules.
Is something new included in the GM Core?
GMG is on of the best books, as let's you to configure your game and fix some terrible core rules.
Hmm. I’ll have to take another look. Is that where Free Archetype and Zero level characters are or is that APG?
Is something new included in the GM Core?
Or conversely, is it missing something particularly useful that the GMG has…?
may risk to get some player saying "no I read in the AoN that this works different" and points something that changed and you don't know pretty frequently if you are just using a changelog (unless someone make a really full comprehensive and big changelog containg all the diferences and yet you might need to re-read the new rule to not misunderstand some detail).Why is it risky to have a player tell you that something works differently?
Too much different understanding of the rules risks too much discussion during a session so as GM if you aren't well prepared the mix of legacy and remaster rules may risk to interrupt a game session many times with questions about some rule or rule changes and different opinions based in different sources. So the ideal if you plan to play using remastered rules is that you have fully read at last the main rules to seek for changes and be ready for doubts and diminish the impact of the rules changes and their details.
It's not too hard to GM and players enter into a discussion about details like "why or why not I/you have so much/little focus points?" or "why I can/cannot recover 2 focus points in a row".
Also the game if full of tricky details that can make some mistakes like "how do your dwarf ruffian is using a d8 Battle Axe and doing sneak attacks?" and the player have to stop and explain and show to the GM that the Weapons Familiarity changed and now common non-ancestry trait weapons listed in the feat are now considered simple for you. But if you as GM have access to ramatered AoN/PC1 and read the entire feat and rufian racket you will notice that the racket talks specifically to weapon category not to how your char consider it "for the purposes of proficiency" making this an invalid weapon choice for sneak attacks.
Simple community changelogs won't be able to enter in such little details that's why I recommend to read all the rules again and have access to full rules text.
Yes, Free Archetype and Zero level characters are there. It now has all the base items PC doesn't have. Also a small new chapter on gems and art objects as a treasure. It doesn't have NPC gallery.GMG is on of the best books, as let's you to configure your game and fix some terrible core rules.Hmm. I’ll have to take another look. Is that where Free Archetype and Zero level characters are or is that APG?
Is something new included in the GM Core?Or conversely, is it missing something particularly useful that the GMG has…?
GMG also has Automatic Bonus Progression, and the Victory Point skill challenge system - along with specific derivatives of VP system challenges like Chases and Social Influence.
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The way I view it, the CRB has had 4 print runs already each with errata. At some point they either had to do fifth print run, or pull the trigger on the remaster.
Now I haven't seen a lot of people ask "should I buy a new CRB on the second, third, fourth printing?" even though those also had some changes in them. People can live with their paper book not being 100% up to the new thing.
The remaster is a bigger than usual change but 90% of the game engine is still the same, just on a different page now. The major changes (alignment removal and spell refurbishing) are not that hard to port over "manually".
The GMG / GM Core is an interesting change. They wanted to make the CRB smaller and less intimidating, so all the mainly GM stuff from that got pushed into the GM Core. On the other hand, beforehand at first glance it might seem that the GMG was entirely optional, but it does have some stuff in it that I find hard to live without, like creature design rules and victory point minigames. So people new to the game who get the GM Core don't accidentally miss out on half of the GM stuff being in an "optional" book.
All in all, if you already had CRB and GMG you don't need to get the remaster. Although it can be convenient to be reading from the most up to date rules. But if you didn't have those books yet, it makes more sense to start with the remaster straightaway.
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Honestly, the side bar on each page listing the chapters, as well as breaking down the sections of the chapter you're in is so nice.
Like, class rebalancing is cool and all, but the side bar is such a great addition for quick referencing.
I haven't noticed anything particularly exciting in the GM core.
A lot of the Talismans have a lowered level of required proficiency to affix, which is nice but not worth a full book to me.
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I think the Monster Core will probably be worth buying if you're the sort of person who buys bestiaries, since it's the remaster book that's going to have the most brand new stuff in it. Like all the new dragons and the various monsters that replace the thematic niches of various OGL monsters that we won't see again.
I purchased the PDFs of the Player Core and the GM Core under incongruity, a contradiction in my actions. I am departing from Pathfinder 2nd Edition for a year in order to try out a Starfinder campaign. Thus, I won't use the Remastered rules until 2025.
However, I like to study game design. I am curious about the changes in the Remastering, so I purchased the books. I will purchase Player Core 2 and the other books when they come out, too.
For an additional layer of incongruity, I am trying out Starfinder 1st Edition while Paizo is developing Starfinder 2nd Edition. I might temporarily halt my Starfinder campaign to join in the public playtest of Starfinder 2nd Edition and then return to the Starfinder 1st Edition to continue the campaign.
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No, full of errors, misprints and typos. Get the pdfs at most those will get updated with each printing. Plus they are searchable.
However, since we only have a fraction of the the game 'remastered' at the moment I haven't even bothered to change the games I run as I'm not going to let some players get new toys and others still having to deal with the design issues of their class.
Basically I've only implemented the swap, reposition, and first aid from the remaster and you don't need the book for that.
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I'm not a fan of the remaster. I do want to support Paizo for moving away from the OGL.
So I said that I'd only get the Player Core and the GM Core on one condition, that it would be the sketch covers.
My main LGS didn't get them at first so I was like that's that. It just happened that I wandered into another games store and saw that they had them and got them there.
Do I plan on ever really using them for play? probably not, I'm going to stick with Pathfinder 2E and not the remaster.
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... But... the remaster IS Pathfinder 2E...
I guess if Rage of Elements was mostly compatible with the CRB, War of the Immortals won't be all that much different...
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Probably new book will still compatible with legacy CRB but you have to deal with the inverted process of convert non-alignment content to alignment (you may consider holy things like good and unholy like evil (I know its not exactly the same but...) yet the main problem to a reverse conversion will be thats there's no more lawful/chaotic probably neutralizing most creatures).
War of the Immortals will be a particularly difficult to those who want to reverse convert because its a divine focused book designed to use spirit and sanctification mechanics strongly. Probably to those who want to use the new books with legacy CRB/APG it's better to just use the new spirit damage and sanctification mechanic what's means that you also need to use clerics and champions with conversion errata from remaster.
Honestly if someone plans to use new content its better to accept the remaster or stop in the releases before Rage of Element (yet you maybe still be pressed by your players due many cool new content release and remaster content).
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Yes and no, at least for me.
While PF2(R) in general is a well made gamist RPG system (probably one of the best in existence), the first printing has too much errors for my liking. So I'm biding my order for now...
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I got both the Player and MG core mostly because that's what Starfinder 2e will be based on for its core rules, so I can get up to speed for the playtest when they come out next year For my PF2e characters, Player Core 2 is of more interest to me. I'm wondering if some of the more player-oriented options from the GMG that didn't make it into the GM core will end up in Player Core 2.
GMG is on of the best books, as let's you to configure your game and fix some terrible core rules.Hmm. I’ll have to take another look. Is that where Free Archetype and Zero level characters are or is that APG?
Is something new included in the GM Core?Or conversely, is it missing something particularly useful that the GMG has…?
Yes. But mainly interesting variants and a fix to the awful magic item loot system compensating with ABP alternative, which can be applied partially.