I'm considering taking Silent Image as a spell on my sorcerer next level, and was wondering if the following usage of the spell is something you'd consider a valid strategy in combat.
On my character's turn in combat, I'd gaslight any intelligent creatures we're fighting that I'm gonna use my magic to blind them. Then I'd cast the spell, filling all squares affected by the illusion with a momentary flash of bright light.
Once the flash occurs, I'd swap to creating an orb of pure black around each enemy creature's head, which goes from the surface of their skin out to a 1 ft. circle. I'd move the illusion of pure black with the creature as it moves in combat while concentrating on the spell.
From the enemy's perspective, I've cast a spell and turned them blind. From the party's perspective, I've made all visible enemies into easy targets for the ranged and melee players while I'm concentrating.
Do you think the enemy would gain the blind condition from this, with the relevant penalties (no Dex to AC, penalized movement, etc.)?
If the enemy's only interacting with the spell via sight, I'm thinking they shouldn't get any kind of will save for disbelief, unless they have some suspicion that the effect is an illusion, such as an opposed spellcraft check or a creature outside of the area of effect telling them it's an illusion. Would that be a valid take on this?
Do you think the enemy would gain the blind condition from this, with the relevant penalties (no Dex to AC, penalized movement, etc.)?
If the illusion effectively renders them blind, then they should count as blind. If you somehow had a spell that created an illusory blindfold that stayed on a creature's face, and they didn't disbelieve it (because it had no touch or weight or tightness or anything), then they'd be blind. Same if it was an illusory sack or cloud of darkness.
------------------------------------------------
If you cast the illusion and it's basically on them and affecting them (which your example definitely would be), then they would get a saving throw as soon as you flashed them with light (which couldn't blind them) but definitely when you formed a cloud of darkness around them. They would get a saving throw each time your illusion interacted with them in a new way (for example, every time an illusory orc 'hit' them with its weapon). If it just went immediately to the dark circle, then continuing to just keep them in the darkness (assuming the failed) probably wouldn't call for a new save (though they could attempt to disbelieve if they had a reasonable suspicion). So the flash and then the dark cloud would give them a chance to save, which is what you want to avoid as an illusionist. If you just made an illusion of a bright light but didn't try and 'blind' them with it (which you can't anyway), you might avoid one.
You are right that just seeing an illusion isn't usually enough to call for an immediate save, but your illusion is directly impacting and interacting with your targets (especially with you trying to move it with them). If you had an illusion of a cloud or sphere of darkness or mist or fog just nearby, then that would also block their vision as normal for its type, but unless they interacted with it or entered it, they wouldn't get an automatic save. If they shot an arrow or fireball or something into it and it didn't act normal (depending on its appearance; fog, smoke, mist, or darkness), then they'd potentially receive one (or have a valid reason to call for a disbelief roll).
--------------------------------------------
I can agree that you could cast silent image and you could create a 'globe of darkness'. Once you create it around a creature, or they move into it, they get a save. Obviously if they pass they can just see through it (seeing its boundaries as a faint outline). If they fail, they are affected as though they were in darkness (typically blind). Obviously darkness has ways that it should react, especially to things like light or creatures with low-light or darkvision, so that could also indicate that this isn't 'normal' darkness. That's fine, with magic things that aren't normal, even to people in that world, don't necessarily scream 'Illusion!'. A flaming fountain of blue fire isn't normal in most worlds, but seeing one doesn't necessarily mean it's illusory.
As for the theatrics and planning and trying to bluff them that your spell does something else, that does apply, but only to the reasonableness of the target thinking it's an illusion (they'd still get automatic saves for interacting). This just lowers the chance of them believably, in-character, deliberately trying to disbelieve it or taking obvious, overt actions to (dis)prove it.
Most of that will depend on the GM's call and how they view illusions and how they work and how NPCs react, which means illusions can either be really powerful, or much, much less useful.
creativity aside - (bummer time) you cannot gain mechanical benefits outside of what the spell says (like blindness, darkness just moves the ambient lighting down 1 step in its AoE. Mondra... is a spell, use that for its effect). Okay.
There is also a difference between what You know as a player and what the PC knows as defined by his skill ranks. Please consider that and play the PC as written and stay reasonably 'in character'.
In general Illusions and Shadow spells really need some GM understanding. It is generally run incorrectly as it takes an interaction or actual time spent to disbelieve/discern the illusion.
Buffing them within PFS is as difficult as other schools and if the targets chat, once one sees through it everyone else gets +4 and then it never ends for that encounter.
For spontaneous casters the Shadow Evoc, Conj, Trns offer many spells for one known spell so a good bargain. Not true for wizards. Shadow also removes the [mind-affecting] descriptor so a mix of good stuff.
Shadow Caster is not a good option.
Tenebrous is good. Umbral and Shadow Grasp are questionable as each applies to a different group of spells (so why the hierarchy when there's no overlap or combos???). I don't write the rules.
Buffing them within PFS is as difficult as other schools ...
this means adding to the spell's Caster Level(CL) and/or DC. Usually it is done per a school such as Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo etc. There are a lot of feats and items that are banned in PFS (and IMO most GMs should blanket ban them and then review them on a case by case basis). Raising your primary casting ability is the standard method to increase DCs, increase Conc Chks, and gain more spells.
From a Game Balance and GMs perspective the spells are arranged by overall power. It's not possible for a First level spell to accomplish what a Second level spell (aka Spell Level) does. So that's a balancing act your GM has to do to keep things fair. It could do a better effect for a limited time or scope. Thwarting that power curve is like reaching over and tweaking your GM's nose. There was so much tweaking going on with the original summoner class that it got rewritten.
There are also defined Conditions in the Game (like Blindness, Paralyzed, Fascinated, etc). The spell needs to call one of those out as an effect. 'Sliding" into an effect is the GMs call but he's not likely to go there unless there good cause and the effect is rather limited (scope, time, power).
What you ARE likely to get is a circumstance modifier for a round or two, something in the range of +/-1 to +/-4. That's reasonable and based on your creative description and roleplaying.
Silent image does not allow you to change the image at will. You can move the image within the range of the spell, but cannot change the effect once cast. For example, you could create the illusion of a creature and have that creature move within the area of the spell, but you have the creature change to a different creature or object after it is created.
The spell only allows you to create a single object creature or forces, so it will not work on more than one target.
As a GM I would not allow what you want to do because silent image is only a 1st level spell. While your idea is creative from a game balance point of view it is beyond what a 1st level spell should be able to do. This is more powerful than the 2nd level spell Burst of Radiance. I would probably allow it to cause the dazzled condition but not blindness.
Since the illusion is directly affecting its targets, they would get a saving throw without having to do anything.
Silent image does not allow you to change the image at will. You can move the image within the range of the spell, but cannot change the effect once cast.
What if it's an illusion of a force that can fill the area of my spell with selective areas of colours?
What about using Silent Image to make an illusion of something like a swarm of cockroaches, or have an illusionary red dragon use fire breath, which would be multiple illusions or altering an illusion? What about an illusionary ogre throwing a javelin or firing an arrow, which is separating one illusion into two?
Changing colors, having a creature move or using its abilities are fine, but you are not doing that. You are switching to an opposing image. Choose the bright light or darkness, not both. Even then what you want to do is beyond that of a first level spell. There are higher level spells that do what you are trying to do. Using a lower level spell to create a stronger effect than a higher level spell breaks the game. Any GM with an ounce of sense will veto this outright.
To do what you want you should be using shadow evocation to duplicate Burst of Radiance or Darkness.
... What if it's an illusion of a force that can fill the area of my spell with selective areas of colours?
What about using Silent Image to make an illusion of something like a swarm of cockroaches, or have an illusionary red dragon use fire breath, which would be multiple illusions or altering an illusion? What about an illusionary ogre throwing a javelin or firing an arrow, which is separating one illusion into two?
you can fill the spell's area of effect(AoE) with the image of your choice (see spell above) while maintaining concentration (and that's a key hit to action economy).
There will be circumstance bonuses based on believe-ability and that's totally a GM call based on the situation.
From a mundane untrained observer's point of view they'll know it is magic (due to spellcasting manifrustration) and likely weird or odd if you move it around inappropriately or weirdly.
The darkness or fog is totally acceptable it just won't cause the effects of deeper darkness or obscuring mist.
If a dragon suddenly appears, initially there will be shock followed by alarm and scrutiny, and real questions when it stays put and is silent. When a virgin maiden is sent to investigate, she screech and then laugh as the dragon bites her and does no damage EVEN IF SHE FAILS to disbelieve the illusion.
No matter what image you produce the reaction is what you are looking for. With this spell inflicting a condition, damage, or magical effect is a hard thing to accomplish.
My own use of this spell is to produce "emptyness". yes - lol, basically an absence of stuff. Basically you can make an object have a negative modifier vs perception (a weak invisibility) so long as it is inanimate and you concentrate to adjust the image to the observer's viewpoint. It's best thought of as a transparent object overlaying the actual object and observers see the transparent air rather than the actual object or as camouflaging the object. Investigating observers will still bump into stuff and you can't cover living creatures as they move about and are not silent and create issues with your cover image but it's great versus normals (especially at a distance) and using for simple skullduggery. It can also be intrepreted as a dusty cobwebby environment to the existing setting. Can go either way.
Another great use is to cover a pit with "the floor". People just seem to go missing!
You can also make desirable things appear to get creature to move about at their own behest, carcasses for carnivores, apples for herbivores, gold for people, etc. Again, it produces a temporary reaction on the part of observers.
Another good trick versus metagamers is to announce you are casting Stinking Cloud then pass a note to the GM that you use Silent Image to reproduce the visual aspects of the spell. The metagamers then assume it's a stinking cloud and avoid it...
Silent image does not allow you to change the image at will. You can move the image within the range of the spell, but cannot change the effect once cast. For example, you could create the illusion of a creature and have that creature move within the area of the spell, but you have the creature change to a different creature or object after it is created.
This is a bit pedantic of an interpretation, anyone can then say they create the illusion of a shapeshifter and thus their illusion can change forms. Instead, if someone tries to create something that is clearly out of the ordinary, especially in how it changes at will, you can simple start liberally handing out the +4 to disbelieve or just start letting people autodisbelieve. I would be pretty mad if a silent image spell couldn't do a bunch of wacky things not because people may or may not believe its real but because that massively hampers a lot of fun roleplay utility of just creating visual party tricks like a ball that erupts into flames to reveal a phoenix chick. Even if the viewers immediately know its not real, I'd still want to do it, and I think the wording "This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you." can easily be inclusive of obviously fake phenomena.
First things first: Don't try to cheat. Even if you find something that strict RAW is allowed by the rules, an obvious attempt at a trick to get way more power than you're supposed to have will not end well.
Blindness without save is a 7th level spell, and mass spells are generally four levels higher, so we're talking about trying to get the effects of an 11th level spell as a 1st level spell.
JDLPF wrote:
Then I'd cast the spell, filling all squares affected by the illusion with a momentary flash of bright light.
I'd swap to creating an orb of pure black around each enemy creature's head, which goes from the surface of their skin out to a 1 ft. circle.
First, there is no "swapping", second, you can create one image, so no more than one "target", and third, the orb would touch them, immediately providing them with sensory input that is at odd with that, and thus the rule of "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw." (CRB pg. 211) kicks in.
JDLPF wrote:
I'd move the illusion of pure black with the creature as it moves in combat while concentrating on the spell.
I don't think you realize how hard that actually is, definitely not something you can do while dodging attacks in a fight.
JDLPF wrote:
What if it's an illusion of a force that can fill the area of my spell with selective areas of colours?
The spell can create the illusion of a "force" but it can't affect other things "Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements."
So if you create a figment of a light, it illuminates the surrounding area?
A figment of a wall creates a shadow behind it? Or do you need to create the shadow as part of the figment?
Defining how creating the illusion of a "force" works would require a tractate, as "force" is either a very vague term, or a very precise one used in physics, and neither of those uses is helpful when trying to comprehend how the spell works.
In the game "forces" are for moving objects or similar dynamic events and causing damage[force].
So an image of water verses a flowing stream, or an arrow on the ground versus a flying arrow (within the AoE). It is just a figment so no actual forces are used.
One could say that creating a mental image of a windy area in the AoE and creating figment of blown about leaves etc would represent forces in the AoE.
It is the game version of old newtonian force vectors acting on the imaginary center of gravity of a non-deformable solid as the idea of bosons with no rest mass but having momentum isn't in the game lexicon.
Personally Illusions are great and allow a player to directly express their creativity in the game. Translating that into Power in the Game is the issue. RAW, GM interpretations, and competing with other spells for martial effects drubs the school for effectiveness/impact in combat. I think Illusionists are best in urban settings and making money by fooling people, you'll never meet a poor illusionist! Shadow school is the one way to make the shtick better but it doesn't happen until 9th level or so and you still have to use the limited number of high level spells to make it really effective.
