Cleric Spell Preparation

[Calliope5431]

Okay, so I have a conundrum that may not belong here and should be moved to General Discussion.

Does Pathfinder 2E say a lot about how clerics prepare their spells every day? Is it

1. "You ask your god for the spell, the god grants it" sort of deal every morning?

2. You just pray for a bit to keep the channel of divine energy open, and the god isn't personally involved at all unless you start casting anathematic spells?

3. Something else?

Yes, I have read Secrets of Magic. No, it does not help. The best I was able to find was this piece of the Flexible Spellcasting archetype:

"Flexible spellcasting clerics, sometimes called ecclesiasts, have an unorthodox connection to their deity, allowing them flexibility in the grace they earn through their prayers. They’re more commonly itinerant, rather than connected to an established church."

The reason I ask is I'm curious if/why Zon-Kuthon allows his followers to prepare searing light , a spell that is axiomatically anathema to him (as an evil god and it being a [good] trait spell) at all, even if one assumes more than one or two castings will get the cleric booted. Why does the god of shadow, evil, and pain have the ability or the desire to give his priests a spell of goodness and light? And if he's not the one giving it to them, how does this actually work?

[Dragonhearthx]

If you are a follower of Zon-Kuthon, the GM will probably tell you that you cannot have spells with the good trait. Talk with him and see what he thinks.

As for how you prepare. That is the joy of ttrpg, you can decide how your character does things. I like the idea of a devotional, where today you purpose these verses (spells) to aid you today. (Or you just like a particular verse, hense why you always have it)

Another way to prepare, would be during the night you made paper talismans and when you "cast your spell" you are drawing out the piece of paper and saying a chant.

It's all flavor.

[The Raven Black]

Casting spells with an alignment opposed to your deity's is anathema to a Cleric.

[Calliope5431]

The Raven Black wrote:

Casting spells with an alignment opposed to your deity's is anathema to a Cleric.

It is indeed. My question is... how do you even get those spells in the first place? Because mechanically you do get them if you want... and of course the GM can tell you no, but personally I've never looked over my PCs' daily spell list because it's way too much work. Getting jumped by that sort of thing and telling your players "sorry, I'm houseruling on the spot that you couldn't prepare that, please retroactively prep something else" isn't fun.

I'm mostly looking for GM curating advice there.

And how do people run spell prep, fluff wise?

[Dragonhearthx]

I'm not sure how to answer. I think what you are talking about is "the trust between player and gm"

Although, if you are looking for some kind of narrative idea, here's one.

1st time the player tries to cast an anathema spell, roll a d20, on a 10+ it goes off otherwise it automatically fails. regardless of the previous result, the player feels a deep disapproval from his god. The player continues to feel this way until the next daily preparations. Where his god tells him, he didn't like what the player did. [You can also add that all anathema spells, that are prepared, are removed along with the spell slots]

2nd time the player casts an anathema spell, it fails automatically and for 1d4 rounds can only casts cantrips. At next daily preparations the god talks to them again. [Removal of spells and associated slots happen again]

3rd time, the cleric looses all spells and class abilities until, the player does a narrative thing with the god. To get back in its good graces.

[Dragonhearthx]

Do keep in mind my above discussion refers to a player willing casting the spells. If the player just didn't realize, play the game as normal until next daily preparations. Or even after the combat to then retroactively change them. During combat is not fun for anyone.

[Calliope5431]

That's fair. It can just feel sort of unfair for players I guess to arbitrarily restrict an already restricted list (the divine one has very few spells) just because you as the GM think the themes don't fix.

May be something you can't really solve. But still.

[Dancing Wind]

Calliope5431 wrote:

And how do people run spell prep, fluff wise?

You may have missed this post from Paizo staff

Jonathan Morgantini wrote:

As a reminder, we do not user the terms 'crunch and fluff' to refer to rules and lore on the forums. Rules and lore are the preferred terms. I will be enforcing that, and it will appear in the next update to the Community Guidelines.

[breithauptclan]

Mechanically the only thing limiting what spells you can prepare are anathema and rarity (clerics only automatically know common spells).

As for flavor ... it is left pretty much entirely up to the players at the table.

[Calliope5431]

Dancing Wind wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

And how do people run spell prep, fluff wise?

You may have missed this post from Paizo staff

Jonathan Morgantini wrote:

As a reminder, we do not user the terms 'crunch and fluff' to refer to rules and lore on the forums. Rules and lore are the preferred terms. I will be enforcing that, and it will appear in the next update to the Community Guidelines.

Oh, sorry! I'll remember that in future.

But yeah my main question is whether or not deities are personally involved in giving clerics power.

[Dragonhearthx]

Calliope5431 wrote:

But yeah my main question is whether or not deities are personally involved in giving clerics power.

I would suggest reading the deity lore. Some are. Some aren't. It's also dependent on what YOU want it to be.