Could the animist deserve a better perception proficiency progression?


Animist Class Discussion


A lot of the animists themes seem to be based around perceiving stuff others can't, yet the playtest has the same awful perception progression as every other caster who isn't a bard. I think giving the animist expert perception at lv1 scaling up to master or maybe even legendary would fit the class really well (better than it does the bard) and make it more different from a cleric. It always annoyed me a bit that every character build around really high perception in pf2e is a martial, and the animist would be the perfect opportunity to change that. The class looks otherwise really cool so far!


_shredder_ wrote:
A lot of the animists themes seem to be based around perceiving stuff others can't, yet the playtest has the same awful perception progression as every other caster who isn't a bard. I think giving the animist expert perception at lv1 scaling up to master or maybe even legendary would fit the class really well (better than it does the bard) and make it more different from a cleric. It always annoyed me a bit that every character build around really high perception in pf2e is a martial, and the animist would be the perfect opportunity to change that. The class looks otherwise really cool so far!

I said this about the psychic. Given that ESP literally stands for Extrasensory Perception, alas the perception progression stayed the same. I'm fairly certain it's a balance concern, and likely around castings beating initiative too easily. Casters probably benefit the team the most from going first in any of these d20 games. A lot of AoE crowd control and damage effects has less downside if you hit enemies with them before your teammates start mixing up with them


If balance is a concern, there could be a third animistic practive that gives you better scaling perception (expert at 1, master at 9, legendary at 17) as its main advantage, with otherwise worse scaling saves and worse boons.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The issue is that, as a Wis based class, starting with trained in Perception gives a +7. In order for any other class to do better than that starting, they have to start with a 16 WIS. That is why the bard's perception isn't really a big deal, because a 16 wis bard is giving up something pretty big in their chassis--they are either eschewing using a weapon effectively and having bad AC, or completely tanking Con. Rogues and Barbarians can be at +8, but they are the game's trap finding classes. A truly dedicated trap finding rogue can be at +10, but to do so they have to be an eldritch trickster with a Wisdom casting stat which means also probably picking up anathema of one stripe or another, and I at least haven't seen anyone go this route and pick the trap finder feat. Still, it is the top end of passive, always on Perception.

If the Animist started with Expert, they are one less than the best class in the game (doing the most to specialize) for it...as a default. At a minimum, that means the class could have no feats or apparition abilities that interact with perception really because they are already too close to the ceiling, and having such high initiative for a caster class is a very strong advantage.

I get feeling frustrated by the bard's perception proficiency track at first glance, but the bard is a buff the party class. When it doesn't go first, the rest of the party is probably delaying their turn. Leaving them too low in initiative hurts the whole party and the vast majority of Bards are starting with a 14 wisdom or less, because they just can't swing it anyway.

The Animist level 6 feat is better than a single proficiency boost. It starts as about the equivalent of one, but it gets ridiculously good for them for winning initiative which is what they really want it for. With canny accumen, the ability to build into perception is already available to the class without having to build it in at all. Canny Acumen is a stronger than usual feat for the Animist. It is useful on Perception from level 1 to 9, On reflex saves from 1 to 11, and on almost everything from 17+, there are only 6 levels where you would want to retrain out of it entirely for a while.

The only potential issue for the animist is noticing haunts, and they do have a feat for just making the sensing of them automatic. With just the tools already available within the class and to all casters, the Animist is the caster for winning initiative by a long margin.

People will say "but you can use other skills for initiative," but not all the time, and the fact that the status bonus goes up to 3 at level 12 means that they really keep up or exceed the bard.

At most, I could maybe imagine an apparition who's focus spell interacted with perception or senses more than just adopting a battle form with different senses.

Dark Archive

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Medium's Awareness gives you a great scaling bonus to checks to seek and for initiative and has the wandering trait which lets you swap day-to-day. On top of being a wisdom based class and having other options like Apparition Sense, I don't think Animist needs any buff to perception.

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