What magic items have your players had the most fun finding/using from loot that they wouldn't have themselves bought?
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Runes and Gold! :P
OK it's not fun but my players love it.
Usually when I think what to do to players I ask them what they want first up to their levels and adjust the rewards to meet their expectations.
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The most fun item in my campaigns was a special materials item rather than a magic item. The item was a mithral waffle iron.
They had killed a blood hag who would prey on visitors to her inn (I happen to have a chronicle at this link because the incident was during the Kineticist Playtest). The beautiful hag liked luxuries, so I had put items such as fine wine and the mithral waffle iron into her room as loot.
They were also escorting a fungal-nymph priestess of Cyth-V'sug due to a side quest. They had been trying to persude the priestess to let them cure her darkblight disease, but she had been involuntarily forced into servitude to Cyth-V'sug and was too afraid to defy him.
The ranger in the party was trained in Cooking Lore, so he decided to try out the mithral waffle iron in the kitchen of the inn. He rolled high, so the waffles came out absolutely wonderful. The priestess realized that if she continued following Cyth-V'sug she would never eat anything as delicious as the waffles again, and that revelation let her listen to the party's arguments against Cyth-V'sug. She defied her evil god and agreed to a cure. Victory through waffles!
The party kept the waffle iron along with breakfast supplies in their bag of holding. They needed to distract an ancient black dragon, so they served the dragon waffles. They were negotiating with foreign dignitaries, so let's talk over a waffle breakfast! They were celebrating a victory, so let's have waffles! The mithral waffle iron was so bizarre that the players laughed whenever their characters made waffles.
This mostly shows that players bring their own fun to items.
The most fun item in my campaigns was a special materials item rather than a magic item. The item was a mithral waffle iron.
They had killed a blood hag who would prey on visitors to her inn (I happen to have a chronicle at this link because the incident was during the Kineticist Playtest). The beautiful hag liked luxuries, so I had put items such as fine wine and the mithral waffle iron into her room as loot.
They were also escorting a fungal-nymph priestess of Cyth-V'sug due to a side quest. They had been trying to persude the priestess to let them cure her darkblight disease, but she had been involuntarily forced into servitude to Cyth-V'sug and was too afraid to defy him.
The ranger in the party was trained in Cooking Lore, so he decided to try out the mithral waffle iron in the kitchen of the inn. He rolled high, so the waffles came out absolutely wonderful. The priestess realized that if she continued following Cyth-V'sug she would never eat anything as delicious as the waffles again, and that revelation let her listen to the party's arguments against Cyth-V'sug. She defied her evil god and agreed to a cure. Victory through waffles!
The party kept the waffle iron along with breakfast supplies in their bag of holding. They needed to distract an ancient black dragon, so they served the dragon waffles. They were negotiating with foreign dignitaries, so let's talk over a waffle breakfast! They were celebrating a victory, so let's have waffles! The mithral waffle iron was so bizarre that the players laughed whenever their characters made waffles.
This mostly shows that players bring their own fun to items.
They must come out extra crisp on the outside and a good amount of fluff on the inside with a mithral wafflemaker. Also must have even heating contact surfaces.
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Weapon runes
Armor runes
Magic shields for shield users, mostly sturdy shields as every other type of magic shield doesn't help with blocking as this is the primary thing shield users want to be able to do well.
Cloak and Boots of elvenkind for the invis.
Apex items
Carrying items
Intelligent Items: These items can be pretty fun for the DM and player.
Cool wands or staves
Ring of Lies
Cape of the Mountebank
Athletic boosting items for the trip martials
Movement boosting items like boots of bounding or the greater cloak of the bat
crystal ball is kind of neat
Can't any shield be made sturdy now?
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Insistent door knocker
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Can't any shield be made sturdy now?
Technically, no.
However, the reinforcing rune has a similar effect.
crystal ball is kind of neatEspecially the one you can bonk people with.
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For the most part; as a player, I'll buy all sorts of weird items, but despite that, I really enjoy it when my DM will just stuff loot caches with oddball consumables. Because consumables in pf2 are kinda built to be most effective when used at their levels, I don't really stash them until "I really need them" because if I wait, they wont be good; so instead, I just use em the first time they would be helpful.
They might not completely alter the course of history, but like cracking a smokestick in the middle of a dero infested cave and just hucking bombs and AoEs out of it while the dero struggle with the miss chance makes for a battle where the party gets to feel clever for drastically reducing the challenge rating through the use of a level 1 item when we were still too weak to cast Mist
Would it be a good idea to give a hand full of random low level consumables to the party at level 1 at the start of the game just to see how they use them and to get them used to using them?
Insistent door knocker
Lol so this little gargoyle whispers advice on how to pick the lock?
The activated ability is cool but I think some gargoyle door knocker whispering is awesome, " Hey, Hey dumb dumb... more to the right... no your other right. Ugh I always get found by the dumb dumbs."
Lol actually that is cool enough to want to lock the activated ability behind a quest I dont give out till level 6 just to give the gargoyle out at lower level.
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We sell a lot of consumables. They are rarely worth using, though there are a few high value consumables.
Mending Lattice is pretty nice for a shield user.
Saving throw talisman can be a decent armor attachments.
Most of the attack talismans are better converted to gold.
Insistent door knocker
It is great defence against Wall of Stone. But I think the GM needs to think very carefully before making this available.
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What magic items have your players had the most fun finding/using from loot that they wouldn't have themselves bought?
Higher level items. A Decanter of Endless Water to level 4 PCs, a level 3 Wand to level 2 PCs, etc...
Higher level items are potent enough to redesign the party strategy to include them, especially considering they will stay higher level for a couple of levels. Also, even if you make a mistake by giving your PCs an item that is too strong (still highly improbable as you can even give items 5 levels higher than your PCs) the item will only last for a few levels and as such you won't completely break your game.
Be just careful to forbid selling it (say it's cursed or whatever) or to make it a bad idea (by giving your PCs all the important at-level items) as the only really problematic stat of higher level items are their cost.
Insistent door knockerIt is great defence against Wall of Stone. But I think the GM needs to think very carefully before making this available.
One of the reasons I like giving out an insistent door knocker is because it changes the whole dungeon structure and can get the party into as much trouble as it can sometimes help them bypass. It is one of those items that can suddenly make the game feel more magical.
Would it be a good idea to give a hand full of random low level consumables to the party at level 1 at the start of the game just to see how they use them and to get them used to using them?
I like the idea on both counts - one it gives the players extra ways to have their characters inhabit and engage with the world; and it give them some introduction to the mechanics of the world beyond their class abilities/spells/feat/mundane equipment…
As a fairly new player, I am only just learning about talismans, and have seen few potions or scrolls. As for actual magic items…not many…so to have more around would kickstart my familiarity…
I need to read up on talismans too.
The party is:
- Halfling outwit crossbow ranger (searching for lost family)
- Dwarf Paladin of Torag wants to tank and craft weapons and armor (seeking redemption for family disgrace)
- Leshy Leaf Order druid (with a vessel made from umberwood representing the cursed background, no mechanical benefit but there are conditions that will trigger the curses affect, wants to cleanse or replace its vessel somehow)
- Goblin resentment Witch (struggling between her resentment patron and her odd ball faith in Shelyn in a way only a goblin could have, the art of goblin song and pickling)
- Human Nephilim Azata Lineage warpriest Cleric of Sarenrae (former slave to an Absalom noble house, been free since slavery was abolished)
- Dromar (Orc/Elf using Orc mechanics and half elf is only repped in appearance and flavor) Changling Bear animal barbarian.
What kind of consumables would you give them to start?
Are there magic items I should incorporate into loot for them?
Each character has a personal story arc that will catch up to them in the campaign. I was thinking they should each get something interesting for them specifically after the party completes that arc.
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What magic items have your players had the most fun finding/using from loot that they wouldn't have themselves bought?Higher level items. A Decanter of Endless Water to level 4 PCs, a level 3 Wand to level 2 PCs, etc...
Higher level items are potent enough to redesign the party strategy to include them, especially considering they will stay higher level for a couple of levels. Also, even if you make a mistake by giving your PCs an item that is too strong (still highly improbable as you can even give items 5 levels higher than your PCs) the item will only last for a few levels and as such you won't completely break your game.
Be just careful to forbid selling it (say it's cursed or whatever) or to make it a bad idea (by giving your PCs all the important at-level items) as the only really problematic stat of higher level items are their cost.
In this vein, higher level staffs are really interesting because they grow in power alongside the PC.
Would it be a good idea to give a hand full of random low level consumables to the party at level 1 at the start of the game just to see how they use them and to get them used to using them?
Yes. Getting fun trinkets into their hands early can be a whole lot of fun.
If they sell it all, well, at least they can have fun with the gold too.
Skunk bombs are a good consumable to get in player’s hands early. Scrolls for spells they can’t cast yet are good too. Dispell magic is a fun one for level 1 and 2 if you know there are magical wards or sensors or a rank 2 illusion or anything like that. False life/vitality at level 1 is obscene amounts of temp hp for a level 1 or 2 character. Knock for a challenging door or party that can’t pick locks well. Etc. a strong blasting spell, especially with a good energy type for an upcoming boss, will also be fun to use. the other nice thing about higher level consumables early is that they really aren’t enough gold to be worth selling unless no one in the party can use them. The key though is to make sure the party keeps finding useful consumables so that they can get used to seeing the impact they can have in challenging encounters so they don’t have to sell other loot at half off to buy them for themselves. I think that is where parties can slip into the habit of finding consumables wasteful. Also, really avoid giving ones that can’t be used or are niche without obvious signs that the upcoming dungeon requires that niche. With no hints that the next dungeon is partially submerged, the party might try to sell items that help them fight under water.
Lastly, try to give multiples of the same consumables when you can. If an upcoming tomb guardian is weak to acid, and a more studious past adventurer had read up on this, but died in a trap before facing the creature, give them 3 or 4 acid flasks in the corpses back pack (plus a couple of shattered vials on their belt to both sell “these are about to be very useful,” and to prevent “I don’t know, is this the time to use this?” Which can also foster that scarcity mentality that can lead players to make encounters much more difficult for themselves than the game expects it to be or that it needs to be.
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What magic items have your players had the most fun finding/using from loot that they wouldn't have themselves bought?
For for you or fun for them?
Heck the answer is the same, the Deck of Campaign Ending Many Things
What magic items have your players had the most fun finding/using from loot that they wouldn't have themselves bought?For for you or fun for them?
Heck the answer is the same, the Deck of
Campaign EndingMany Things
Lol hard pass on that one.
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Portable Hole.
Everybody loves the portable hole.
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Interesting!
I've heard a lot of horror stories about players who just refuse to use them (and I see it all the time from my PCs) so it's nice to hear about someone liking them.
It's sad because consumables often have unique and interesting effects.
Yeah, for a lot of people, the single use nature and non scaling DCs makes them either claim they are a waste of money or they are too scared to use them because "what if they need it later".
To me, the limited shelf life makes me go "There's no reason to hold onto it, because it will get outdated soon" and as such, I just use it at the first opportunity where it will be helpful.
Also, pf2 gives so many abilities to characters that as long as I have my item bonuses; I don't have to rely all that hard on gear to function, so being able to try out completely new things is really fun
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I continue to assert that the Deck of Many Things is awesome for the right groups and the right campaigns... while, yes, being utterly awful for most of the other groups and campaigns out there.
That said... it is so very Not Safe For ORC. So soon enough you can stop worrying about it.
I do recall a 2nd ed campaign from twenty-some-odd ago where we wound up in some wizard's lair that had things like a mana-powered stove as a curiosity. The party took one look at it, immediately thought "We'll never have to deal with cold camp again" and got really motivated to take it home. We had a portable hole. We could *make* room.
The DM informed us that it was built into the solid rock wall.
The cleric had Stone Shape memorized, and was willing to blow the spell.
The DM gave up and let us have the stove.
So with a staff i might say something like,
You feel power within the staff far beyond your current abilities, still, the staff responds to something kindred in you sharing a fraction of its power. In time more of its might may become available to you.
The party might find a Mentalist staff as a reward. The witch in the party knows daze and phantom pain the others do not have any spells on the staff's list. So the staff would do nothing for the others.
So this staff could be the level 14 version and it wouldn't be overpowered because she could only use the spells she knows at the ranks she can cast on her own?
So with a staff i might say something like,
You feel power within the staff far beyond your current abilities, still, the staff responds to something kindred in you sharing a fraction of its power. In time more of its might may become available to you.
The party might find a Mentalist staff as a reward. The witch in the party knows daze and phantom pain the others do not have any spells on the staff's list. So the staff would do nothing for the others.
So this staff could be the level 14 version and it wouldn't be overpowered because she could only use the spells she knows at the ranks she can cast on her own?
"You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level."
The "you can't cast spells you can't cast" is pretty much baked right in.
Now, she might conceivably have spells on the staff that her familiar didn't know, but the level requirement is right there.
Ok I'm liking that. Just make it so they cant sell it and there's no issue but players will enjoy having something that gets better as they do.
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Ok I'm liking that. Just make it so they cant sell it and there's no issue but players will enjoy having something that gets better as they do.
One cool way to do that is if you have the Staff be a personal gift from a sympathetic superior that the PCs will naturally want to be on the good side of. Selling such a thing for mere cash would be....
...and if the PCs are willing to set their relationships with important patrons on fire in order to get access to extra cash a bit early, then you can let them feel the downsides of that. Making that trade more costly than it's worth is easy.
Another cool way, for those PCs that dip a bit into the dark side, is to have it be a staff that works, but that no one wants to touch because it's tainted or corrupted in some way. Like, you could sell it, but you'd only get a fraction of the price.
You can also have a staff that in some way is bonded with the character on a fundamental level, such that they're unwilling or unable to give it up, or it would cripple them in some way to do so. This is usually better if you make it a custom magical item that effectively includes the effects of multiple items that would otherwise show up int eh treasure packet and/or that grows along with the PC. Having it eventually become their Apex item would be appropriate, for example. You could even have them cultivating the thing by feeding it resources of various sorts.
...and yes, "it's tainted, and no one wants it" and "it's bound to your soul/body/whatever, and grows in power with you" do combo pretty well for the right sort of PC.
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For me personally, it was a staff of divination that, after casting sure strike, got hurled into the heart of a vampire lord with a max damage critical hit. Fond memory that.
For my players, it would be the Goz mask. Once they found one, they fell in love and crafted several more for the whole party. Combined with fog spells and effects, this item allowed my players to dominate 90% of encounters. Unlike darkness, most enemies do no possess any means of countering sight-destroying fog, particularly in confined areas.
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For my players, it would be the Goz mask. Once they found one, they fell in love and crafted several more for the whole party. Combined with fog spells and effects, this item allowed my players to dominate 90% of encounters. Unlike darkness, most enemies do no possess any means of countering sight-destroying fog, particularly in confined areas.
This is one of the things that in my group we've actually had to have a out of game discussion about.
Like it was a fun trick the first few times, but when it became a go to tactic it was very frustrating for the GM. The group basically agreed that it was lowering the fun for the GM (who is as much a player as the others) and that it was "unsportsmanlike conduct".
Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.
Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.
Is that about the same as giving them a free pet?
What level item would this be?
Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.Is that about the same as giving them a free pet?
What level item would this be?
About the same, with the notable difference of "it comes back the next day when killed". I'd probably use the pet rules for it, too, rather than letting them swap out familiar abilities on the daily.
As for item level, it's more or less a GM call on that since it's not really a power boost. It's more than a first level feat (daily replacement instead of weekly, like a Witch's familiar), and items are delayed. Somewhere in the six-to-ten range, probably.
It's something the GM can have some fun with too, since it's a bit weird in a way that can be played up, and it has a bit more personal interpretation to commands than normal minions might.
In my case, the barbarian player ended up with one. In the final fight against a witch, the character chucked the migrus at the flying boss. Rolled miss chance for a spell, and whoops, didn't quite make it. Follow the trajectory, and the migrus ends up behind the throne... where the witch's crow familiar was hiding, ready to pretend to be more powerful reinforcements if the fight went south. Yowling and cawing immediately commenced, and the familiar was flushed out of hiding.
Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.Is that about the same as giving them a free pet?
What level item would this be?About the same, with the notable difference of "it comes back the next day when killed". I'd probably use the pet rules for it, too, rather than letting them swap out familiar abilities on the daily.
As for item level, it's more or less a GM call on that since it's not really a power boost. It's more than a first level feat (daily replacement instead of weekly, like a Witch's familiar), and items are delayed. Somewhere in the six-to-ten range, probably.
It's something the GM can have some fun with too, since it's a bit weird in a way that can be played up, and it has a bit more personal interpretation to commands than normal minions might.
In my case, the barbarian player ended up with one. In the final fight against a witch, the character chucked the migrus at the flying boss. Rolled miss chance for a spell, and whoops, didn't quite make it. Follow the trajectory, and the migrus ends up behind the throne... where the witch's crow familiar was hiding, ready to pretend to be more powerful reinforcements if the fight went south. Yowling and cawing immediately commenced, and the familiar was flushed out of hiding.
Lol That was a pretty lucky throw.
Lol That was a pretty lucky throw.Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.Is that about the same as giving them a free pet?
What level item would this be?About the same, with the notable difference of "it comes back the next day when killed". I'd probably use the pet rules for it, too, rather than letting them swap out familiar abilities on the daily.
As for item level, it's more or less a GM call on that since it's not really a power boost. It's more than a first level feat (daily replacement instead of weekly, like a Witch's familiar), and items are delayed. Somewhere in the six-to-ten range, probably.
It's something the GM can have some fun with too, since it's a bit weird in a way that can be played up, and it has a bit more personal interpretation to commands than normal minions might.
In my case, the barbarian player ended up with one. In the final fight against a witch, the character chucked the migrus at the flying boss. Rolled miss chance for a spell, and whoops, didn't quite make it. Follow the trajectory, and the migrus ends up behind the throne... where the witch's crow familiar was hiding, ready to pretend to be more powerful reinforcements if the fight went south. Yowling and cawing immediately commenced, and the familiar was flushed out of hiding.
I used the item myself on a drunken shapeshifter whose daily new form meant that Best Cat (who was terrible) had a face that was an unsettling skewed average of three or four different people.
I used the item myself on a drunken shapeshifter whose daily new form meant that Best Cat (who was terrible) had a face that was an unsettling skewed average of three or four different people.Lol That was a pretty lucky throw.Port over a Migrus Locker, ham it up a bit, and enjoy. I got good mileage out of it in PF1, and it's a lot more conceptual than mechanical.Is that about the same as giving them a free pet?
What level item would this be?About the same, with the notable difference of "it comes back the next day when killed". I'd probably use the pet rules for it, too, rather than letting them swap out familiar abilities on the daily.
As for item level, it's more or less a GM call on that since it's not really a power boost. It's more than a first level feat (daily replacement instead of weekly, like a Witch's familiar), and items are delayed. Somewhere in the six-to-ten range, probably.
It's something the GM can have some fun with too, since it's a bit weird in a way that can be played up, and it has a bit more personal interpretation to commands than normal minions might.
In my case, the barbarian player ended up with one. In the final fight against a witch, the character chucked the migrus at the flying boss. Rolled miss chance for a spell, and whoops, didn't quite make it. Follow the trajectory, and the migrus ends up behind the throne... where the witch's crow familiar was hiding, ready to pretend to be more powerful reinforcements if the fight went south. Yowling and cawing immediately commenced, and the familiar was flushed out of hiding.
That thing would freak me out.