The definition of Instance of Damage (or rather lack of one) has been the cause of much discussion in my organised play groups.
Another issue that it brings has been with the rule that you can only apply the highest weakness to an instance of damage. This has caused a fair degree of spirited debate from people who play a Thaumaturge.
I hope they have clarified it in the remaster but I suspect its now too late to make changes to the books now.
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Plainly: it's NOT an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell". Never was. At all. It's an ability which gives 'status bonus to that spell’s damage'. It's exactly like an ability which increases weapon damage that would increase damage of every strike with a weapon. Even if these strikes would be enveloped in N-action activity with multiple strikes. Even if the weapon had several modes of action, even if your character had several different Strikes to use with this weapon.If a spell does damage multiple times, the bonus is added multiple times. Because it's all spell's damage(s). It doesn't need to be talking about it. If a spell does X amount of instant damage to target, then Y for area, then Z persistent damage, then W damage on sustain next turns, and the bonus is B, then the resultant spell damage(s) will be X+B, Y+B, Z+B, W+B.Okay, but again where in the rules are you deriving this?
Because plainly, you're taking an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell" and deciding instead you want to add 40 damage, which is clearly contradictory. So like... where are you coming up with this?
Even if the weapon inflicts fire damage in addition to its normal damage ? Even if it deals sneak attack or rage damage ?
Even if the weapon inflicts fire damage in addition to its normal damage ? Even if it deals sneak attack or rage damage ?Plainly: it's NOT an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell". Never was. At all. It's an ability which gives 'status bonus to that spell’s damage'. It's exactly like an ability which increases weapon damage that would increase damage of every strike with a weapon. Even if these strikes would be enveloped in N-action activity with multiple strikes. Even if the weapon had several modes of action, even if your character had several different Strikes to use with this weapon.If a spell does damage multiple times, the bonus is added multiple times. Because it's all spell's damage(s). It doesn't need to be talking about it. If a spell does X amount of instant damage to target, then Y for area, then Z persistent damage, then W damage on sustain next turns, and the bonus is B, then the resultant spell damage(s) will be X+B, Y+B, Z+B, W+B.Okay, but again where in the rules are you deriving this?
Because plainly, you're taking an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell" and deciding instead you want to add 40 damage, which is clearly contradictory. So like... where are you coming up with this?
Sneak Attack and Rage specifies if it is added to its original damage type or if it is a separate damage type, so it's not complicated to adjudicate those in regards to damage roll bonuses.
As for Dangerous Sorcery, it's not exactly written consistently with other sources of bonus damage. It's typed like a bonus to damage rolls, but only applies to the total of a spell, and doesn't say it applies to damage rolls. It would have to be ran this way anyway, else Cataclysm Sorcerer is extremely OP.
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Even if the weapon inflicts fire damage in addition to its normal damage ? Even if it deals sneak attack or rage damage ?Plainly: it's NOT an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell". Never was. At all. It's an ability which gives 'status bonus to that spell’s damage'. It's exactly like an ability which increases weapon damage that would increase damage of every strike with a weapon. Even if these strikes would be enveloped in N-action activity with multiple strikes. Even if the weapon had several modes of action, even if your character had several different Strikes to use with this weapon.If a spell does damage multiple times, the bonus is added multiple times. Because it's all spell's damage(s). It doesn't need to be talking about it. If a spell does X amount of instant damage to target, then Y for area, then Z persistent damage, then W damage on sustain next turns, and the bonus is B, then the resultant spell damage(s) will be X+B, Y+B, Z+B, W+B.Okay, but again where in the rules are you deriving this?
Because plainly, you're taking an ability that says "add 10 damage to the spell" and deciding instead you want to add 40 damage, which is clearly contradictory. So like... where are you coming up with this?
Sneak Attack and Rage specifies if it is added to its original damage type or if it is a separate damage type, so it's not complicated to adjudicate those in regards to damage roll bonuses.
As for Dangerous Sorcery, it's not exactly written consistently with other sources of bonus damage. It's typed like a bonus to damage rolls, but only applies to the total of a spell, and doesn't say it applies to damage rolls. It would have to be ran this way anyway, else Cataclysm Sorcerer is extremely OP.
If I benefit from Inspire Courage and my Strike inflicts both physical damage and fire damage, how does it work ?
How is it different for a spell that deals both types of damage too ?
By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
I can't even make that distinction. Is it one damage roll or two damage rolls. I can't tell.
We have a formula for damage. But it that one damage roll with some extra dice added, or is it two separate damage rolls?This is the point.
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By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
I can't even make that distinction. Is it one damage roll or two damage rolls. I can't tell.
We have a formula for damage. But it that one damage roll with some extra dice added, or is it two separate damage rolls?This is the point.
I completely agree that it should be written more clearly.
But there is zero chance that I will allow a +1 status bonus to every type of damage a single attack does to a single target.
By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
I can't even make that distinction. Is it one damage roll or two damage rolls. I can't tell.
We have a formula for damage. But it that one damage roll with some extra dice added, or is it two separate damage rolls?This is the point.
I completely agree that it should be written more clearly.
But there is zero chance that I will allow a +1 status bonus to every type of damage a single attack does to a single target.
Why not? I mean RAI is so hard to judge when RAW is unclear.
As previously stated an extra point of Resist All would take one off every damage type. What is so wrong with the reverse existing. I can assure you that +1 to hit or to spell DC would still be a stronger modifier than +1 to all damage. That sorts of +1 clearly does exist.
Then there is persistent damage is that getting the plus 1? It clearly occurs at a different time but the damage rules seem to include it as well.
It is just a mess.
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By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
I can't even make that distinction. Is it one damage roll or two damage rolls. I can't tell.
We have a formula for damage. But it that one damage roll with some extra dice added, or is it two separate damage rolls?This is the point.
I completely agree that it should be written more clearly.
But there is zero chance that I will allow a +1 status bonus to every type of damage a single attack does to a single target.
Why not? I mean RAI is so hard to judge when RAW is unclear.
As previously stated an extra point of Resist All would take one off every damage type. What is so wrong with the reverse existing. I can assure you that +1 to hit or to spell DC would still be a stronger modifier than +1 to all damage. That sorts of +1 clearly does exist.
Then there is persistent damage is that getting the plus 1? It clearly occurs at a different time but the damage rules seem to include it as well.
It is just a mess.
Since it is a mess, I go with what makes the most sense to me, ie what is the most simple thing.
I am not swayed by the Resist all reverse argument. Resist all is far rarer than a bonus to damage rolls.
Also IIRC Weakness all would not stack. So I take the Resist all rule as a Specific trumps General.
Persistent damage is a Condition IIRC. So things that boost the damage of the attack do not boost the damage of the condition unless it explicitly says so.
That's my take on this.
By RAW, they both benefit.
The difference is in the language. Dangerous Sorcery lists a flat bonus to the damage a singular spell, meaning even if you deal multiple damage types, you only get +X to the damage total, where X is the spell level; the different types don't matter. It's listed as a status bonus so you don't stack it with effects like Inspire Courage.
Inspire Courage only asks if you are making a damage roll; it doesn't matter what damage roll it is, or if it is part of another damage roll.
I can't even make that distinction. Is it one damage roll or two damage rolls. I can't tell.
We have a formula for damage. But it that one damage roll with some extra dice added, or is it two separate damage rolls?This is the point.
Resist All implies that each is its own roll applied separately, since even resistances to two different types of damage (such as Fire and Slashing) would be resisted separately, otherwise Resist All would be stronger than a creature with Resistance to Slashing and Fire for an attack that does Slashing and Fire damage. If it was all one roll, then Resistance would be written to apply entirely if the attack deals that type of damage (similar to how Weakness applies), even if the Resistance doesn't wholly apply to the attack.