advice for first 2E build: warrior Bard for PFS


Advice


Dipping my toes into 2E for the first time, after many years of playing 1E, and I'll be trying out a bard in a local PFS game as my first foray.

I'm building a warrior-muse Bard - the concept is kind a a wide-eyed hick, previously a backcountry farmhand from Irrisen, whose village was raided and he took that opportunity to run away. He joins the Pathfinder Society out of a rosy, romantic view of adventuring, and he basically has no idea what the world is like outside of his little village in Irrisen so he's trying to learn everything all at once.

As a build, I'm leaning towards support/melee, kind of a wannabe warrior, but really spending as much time observing and supporting his allies as getting into melee himself.

From the warrior muse I will get martial weapon proficiency - any suggestions on good ideas for weapons to use?

I'm also considering taking Armor Proficiency to get medium armor, as I'm only planning on a 12 Dex. (I understand 12 dex probably isn't optimal, but I'm imagining the character as kind of bumbly.) If I'm understanding correctly, taking Armor Proficiency and using a breastplate wouldn't give me any penalties at all as long as my strength is 16, is that correct? E.g., my spellcasting is unaffected by wearing armor?

Spells I'm looking at include: Protection, Thoughtful Gift, True Strike, Sanctuary, Magic Weapon, or Command. Any suggestions among these, or great spells I overlooked?


PF2 has a pretty solid effectiveness floor. Most concepts that you come up with are going to meet minimum expectations necessary to be fun to play.

There are some things that I am seeing in there that are going to drop off as you gain levels. Most notably the armor proficiency.

You are correct in reading that wearing any armor will not affect your spellcasting ability. Also if you meet the strength requirements it won't impact your skill bonuses. It only reduces your speed penalties, but for medium armor I think all of them will get reduced to zero penalty. It may be possible in the future for some medium armor to have a speed penalty high enough that the penalty reduction from meeting the strength score will not make it go away entirely.

The bigger problem with Armor Proficiency is that it never increases. At some point, your class will increase your unarmored and light armor proficiency ranks. Your medium armor proficiency will not go up though. So there will come a time where wearing light armor will still give you a higher AC than wearing medium armor. But that is a problem for way later in the future, and can be handled by retraining - either switch to the light armor once you have put some ability boosts into your dex, or find an archetype that gives increasing armor proficiency.

Liberty's Edge

Armor proficiency for Bards goes up to Expert at 13th level. In PFS, that means never. So no problem with just Trained in Medium Armor.


Another way to look at it is this: If you don't plan to ever increase your Dexterity, it doesn't matter. Trained in a Breastplate is the same AC as Expert in Studded Leather or Chain Shirt when your Dex is only +1.

If you do increase your Dexterity, even just to +2, you can always just switch to Studded Leather or a Chain Shirt at Level 13. If your Dex is +2 you're only -1 compared to maximum AC. Plenty of folks survive just fine with that AC.


Great, thanks for the insight. For some additional context, I'm not expecting to take this character even to mid-levels: living the dad life means my free time to play PFS is sadly limited, so this character might never even make it to 2nd level. So my focus is really (1) to make it as fun as possible at level 1, and (2) to not be completely deadweight for the party.

Liberty's Edge

One big choice you will need to do is whether you take Maestro muse whether at 1st level or with Multifarious Muse later on to get Lingering Composition.

This will mostly matter IMO if you want to cast spells often, since most require 2 actions.

If I were you, I would start Warrior Muse, get a good Reach weapon and use a routine of Inspire Courage, Strike, cast Shield.

If you end up not liking this, remember that you can always rebuild your PFS PC before level 2.

At level 2, going Fighter MC might be interesting to get AoO at level 4.

Note though that, at level 5, you will suddenly be behind the hit chance curve. Time then to find other ways to hurt your enemies.

Swashbuckler MC to get One for all might be a good choice too.


Melee caster is a little tricky for a few reasons, namely accuracy, durability, and action economy. Bards in particular have a tight action economy between inspire, spells, movement, and attacking. I recommend the haberd to offset the movement and durability with reach. For accuracy, it shouldn't be huge at level 1. You could use Magic Weapon to catch up to your allies but you're better off casting it on a proper martial instead.


Melee caster can work just fine, especially at the early levels. You're planning for a +3 in Str... that puts you right there with the Alchemists, the Thaumaturges and the Inventors. You'll do great. Especially as you can throw in Inspire Courage to bump yourself (and, as a bonus, the rest of your team.)

My main advice would be to focus on getting one solid Strike in a round, and flank. Flanking helps a lot. I played a Warpriest to 20th level and even Levels 13-14 (the worst) I was hitting a lot because I was flanking all the time.


Trying to pick a weapon - is greatsword a reasonable choice? I have martial proficiency from the warrior muse. If I'm understanding correctly, I can cast a spell with a somatic component and attack with a 2-handed weapon in the same round?


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Yes, you can cast with somatic components with your hands full.

You will need a free hand for material components though. Something to watch for, but not often a dealbreaker.

If you do need a free hand, Release is a free action to switch to a 1-hand hold of your greatsword, and Change Grip is one action to switch back to a 2-hand wield.


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Greatsword is a reasonable choice, but I'd prefer the halberd for reach or the bastard sword for one handed flexibility. The latter won't likely matter until staffs come into play though at mid levels. So reach wins for me, especially since it makes flanking easier.

ottdmk wrote:

Melee caster can work just fine, especially at the early levels. You're planning for a +3 in Str... that puts you right there with the Alchemists, the Thaumaturges and the Inventors. You'll do great. Especially as you can throw in Inspire Courage to bump yourself (and, as a bonus, the rest of your team.)

My main advice would be to focus on getting one solid Strike in a round, and flank. Flanking helps a lot. I played a Warpriest to 20th level and even Levels 13-14 (the worst) I was hitting a lot because I was flanking all the time.

I do agree that melee casters get wildly underestimated here, but I think it takes skill to play one which makes them tricky as a first character. Your advice is sound. If you want to strike more than once a round, you should play a non-caster class with the marshall dedication instead. Spell casting classes really need to utilize their spells and use melee to supplement.

Liberty's Edge

Reach weapon will absolutely help with AC IME.

Now, since you will be doing PFS, you might need to adapt your tactics to your group's composition if you want good synergies and overall efficiency.

If there are many casters, play the martial and have them cast Magic Weapon for you.

If there are more martials, play the caster and you cast Magic Weapon for them.


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Ancient elf gets a free multiclass dedication. You can take champion and get update to Heavy armor at first level.


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Just reporting back - played one session with my warrior bard, and he was devastatingly effective! Magic weapon with a greatsword to do 2d12 damage at level 1 was pretty ridiculous - especially when I could cast True Strike to roll twice and take the better!

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