Building a Necromancer and a Lich


Advice

Vigilant Seal

Been brainstorming a character and I’m a bit stuck. I know a few things about the character and then there’s quite a few ‍♂️ variables. His primary motivation is chasing immortality. I am 100% locked in for Lich at level 12 either FA or normal.

I am 99% I want to be a Wizard. Im open to Sorcerer, Oracle or Witch too. I’m almost 100% positive I want to be a Necromancer school and I might have to be also for certain prerequisites.

I know the driving motivation for the character is to become a Lich. I know the primary motivation for the character is to become immortal. I know the character will be specializing in cold and necromancy spells.

I am considering Fetchling, Gnome or Elf for ancestry. Possibly even Fetchling Half-Elf. My hesitation on gnome is that I’m not sure a gnome/small lich looks like. The primary influence and mental image/artwork would be the Liches from Warcraft 3/WoW, primarily Kel’Thuzad. So I don’t know what a gnome would look like regarding this.

I was strongly considering Runelord (Necromancy). I’m looking into Reanimator, I’m looking into Undead Master… from 1-12.

I don’t know how well Animate Dead and summoned minions interacts with a Zombie/Skeleton Undead Master. I’ve heard summons suck anyway. I feel like a strong part of Necromancer is undead minions but I’m not sure how much about it should be.

Runelord is appealing in joining the character motivation -> gluttony. Obsession with power, with knowledge, voracious appetites to learn everything. The feats seem pretty cool.

The downside is the stats in general especially if I were to lean into the Polearm part. An Elf (and maybe Gnome idk) is a 6 HP ancestry on a 6 HP class. To use the polearm to any effect I’d probably need a 16 strength and an 18 int which means that using the floating +2 boosts I’d be at 16/12/12/18/10/10 for pretty much any of the ancestries which puts me at absolutely mega atrocious AC at like 15 or something and HP (13 at worst and for Fetchling 15). So even if I go Runelord maybe ignore the Polearm stuff?

Maybe 14/14/12/18/10/10 ? Otherwise I’m thinking 10/16/12-14/18/10/12

Reanimator seems like a distraction from the core of the character although a core of the character is necromancy but it feels even more hyper specialized and I’m worried distracts from the whole “I’m obsessed with not dying” and being a more general black magic caster than simply one who is especially good at raise dead. I don’t want to “lose” my character getting lost in the weeds. Might be a personal problem here.

I know I want Lich. I don’t know what Lich feats are actually good.

Do I even have room for wizard class feats in case I fall into a non-free archetype game? I feel like reach spell would be great for vampiric touch. Otoh if I go polearm Runelord I might be in melee anyway?

I’m looking at spells like Fear, Slow, Diseases, anything with the Necromancy trait that isn’t positive healing and anything with the Cold trait.

Just kind of in analysis paralysis here. If I go Runelord I think ignoring the polearm would be a good idea.

The feats I’m interested in I think would be either Embed Aeon Stone or Tattoo Artist then Aeon Resonance, Sin Reservoir, and Fused Polearm from Runelord.

I like pretty much everything in Reanimator but I feel like I run out of room even with FA before it’s time for Lich.

For Lich I like Drain Soul Cage, probably Spell Gem but maybe Bolster Soul Cage and Frightful Aura is cool too. This however locks me into basically boosting Crafting and Intimidation to some degree. Unsure about the third skill I should look toward.

I guess I need help focusing and parsing effective options and kind of getting more concrete answers than nebulous hang wringing over hypotheticals.

What would my action economy look like in a real game as a wizard with an undead companion as well as an animate dead summon… can I have both at once? Would it be something like Command an Animal (? What if it’s a zombie?) -> 2 actions for minion -> Sustain Animate Undead -> 3rd action (idk)

Also would I have room to cast any normal spells if I’m using an action to command an undead companion then using sustain a spell for animate dead.

I’m drawing on inspirations from Warcraft 3 Lich and Necromancer and The Undead faction in general, Diablo 3 Necromancer, Guild Wars 2 Necromancer minionmancer build.

I guess I have conflicting class fantasies:

Do I want to be a dark caster with deadly magic and buffs/debuffs to cripple my enemies, aid my Allies and deal damage? Where I might dabble in animate dead but it’s not the main thing (probably Runelord at this point).

Am I primarily a minion mancer commanding up to 3 undead at once? (Undead Master + Reanimator)

Maybe half and half with undead master and 1 permanent undead companion and then spells for my other actions kind of like a summoner? (Purely Undead Master).

Once I reach Lichdom that all seems mostly flavor and doesn’t do much except “feel cool” I guess lol


Just to clarify, since wizard is the only one that has the school specialization, and because you want necromancy as school, doesn't this automatically exclude any other class?

Or by specializing in necromancy you mean only picking necromancy spells ( or most of them would be from the necromancy school)?

I think that getting the cleric dedication could give you heals for both allies and enemies, but you might also achieve this through focus spells and scrolls.

I like the nexus staff for that purpose, that would allow you at some point to sacrifice more slots for your staff ( you might end up with several mid level heals that would allow you to assist your party).

Vigilant Seal

HumbleGamer wrote:

Just to clarify, since wizard is the only one that has the school specialization, and because you want necromancy as school, doesn't this automatically exclude any other class?

Or by specializing in necromancy you mean only picking necromancy spells ( or most of them would be from the necromancy school)?

I think that getting the cleric dedication could give you heals for both allies and enemies, but you might also achieve this through focus spells and scrolls.

I like the nexus staff for that purpose, that would allow you at some point to sacrifice more slots for your staff ( you might end up with several mid level heals that would allow you to assist your party).

To parse it out completely: I am open to Witch (I don’t know which particular Patron), Sorcerer (Undead or Shadow or possibly Imperial), Oracle (Bones), or Wizard. I’ve heard opinions on Wizard ranging from Universalist is the only good/playable school to Universalist is garbage. I haven’t heard much about the Necromancy school, but some dedications, such as Runelord, or Reanimator might require me to be the school of Necromancy should I go with Wizard.

That said: when I mean necromancy schools I’m thinking dark magic: diseases, negative damage, direct damage, debuffs, cold damage. Death and Decay, the Chill of the Grave, the disease from corpses and such. Like general Necromancer stuff. Raising the dead whether it be Undead Master or Reanimator or just learning the Animate Dead spell.

When I say buffing my Allies, especially from an arcane list perspective, general utility like Invisibility, Fly, Haste, Resist Energy, Energy Aegis, etc…


Now it's more clear, thanks.

I say that you are allowed to go with the runelord one, I'd definitely take it because it's broken and fixes part of the issues the wizard class currently has:

- weapon proficiency ( with polearms without the need to be elf or wasting general/ancestry feats ).
- refocus ( wizard has the improved refocus by lvl 14, rather than 12, and lacks the 3 point refocus by lvl 18 ).
- More focus spells to choose from ( wizard choices are limited and often ridiculous ).

Vigilant Seal

Basically have 3(?) choices I've whittled my Necromancer down to. Locked in to Wizard. Now it's basically either: Universalist School or specifically Necromancer school.

I understand Universalist in some way gets more casts, but Necromancer gives me more spell slots straight away? I don't know which is better.

The second is Reanimator versus Undead Master. I think Undead Master might be more fun for a "stable" of Zombie, Skeletal Servant and Skeletal Mount that I can swap out and stuff. Still feels very Necromancer without spamming Animate Undead leaving me room to still cast magic commonly and gives me a great reliable 3rd action to use every turn.

Anyone have experience with any of these things?


I think that Badluck Gamer on Youtube has a video on this that you might want to watch, if you haven't already.

Vigilant Seal

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
I think that Badluck Gamer on Youtube has a video on this that you might want to watch, if you haven't already.

I have not. Is it the Archetypes Tier List A-F?

Or is it the Pathfinder 2E Wizard Build True Necromancer?


IIRC it is the 2nd one

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