
Braininthejar |
I've tried to DM some official Pathfinder campaigns, but can't seem to get the party's rate of advancement right, always coming short of what level the game expects the players to be at a given point.
What could be the reason?
1 Does the scenario assume the players accomplish everything there is to accomplish and get 100% of the XP available?
2 Does the scenario expect the DM to throw in some of their own stuff inbetween to give the players more XP opportunities?
3 Am I perhaps calculating the XP wrong (for example, perhaps the XP for accomplishing important scenario goals is not supposed to be divided by the number of players?) (my party is the standard 4 players)

AwesomenessDog |

1) There is usually significantly more XP (and wealth as they follow the same rule of application) by significant amounts to get to where your party "should" be by certain parts of an AP. This is because you are supposed to miss some rewards, sometimes you have breaks for random encounters to catch up because there was a long section with lots of miss-able rewards, etc. The AP's are usually given around twice the XP (and again WBL) than you should have.
2) When it does think you should double check and give them some "bonus catch up rewards" it's very explicit in the text to say that.
3) You still divide XP rewards by 4 (for a party of 4 or 5, otherwise divide by the number of players or consider running for a smaller group if you have 7+ players active at a time).
4) This is generally a good idea for most AP's but some AP's will have bigger "sandbox sections" or are just Kingmaker and there's a reason to run XP over milestone (even if its not universally better even in those niche cases).
If the players are in fact consistently falling behind, maybe do a double check to make sure you are in fact giving them all the non-combat rewards they deserve, including disabling or enduring traps/hazards, avoiding combat with enemies that would otherwise be needed to fight, and so on.
Without more detail, such as which AP you're running, and what your party has exhaustively done so far, I can't really give more specific of an answer.

Braininthejar |
Without more detail, such as which AP you're running, and what your party has exhaustively done so far, I can't really give more specific of an answer.
DMing Way of the Wicked, second book. It is supposed to take the characters from level 6 to 10, which at medium advancement path is 82000 XP (so 328000 divided between a party of 4)
I've added everything listed in the book, and if the party does everything, including killing all enemies and completing obscure optional objectives, (except for a super hard optional boss) the XP values given in the book add up to around 330000
I was thinking maybe there should be more XP for multiple enemies in the same encounter - but whenever there are 6 or 7 identical guys, the book just sums up their XP reward)
So, where am I making a mistake?

AwesomenessDog |

Ah well Way of the Wicked is a 3pp AP, not official Paizo content so their design philosophy isn't guaranteed to be followed. I have the book but I don't see where it even mentions which track they use, though I might assume fast track.
And the way you explained how you count XP for multiple enemies in an encounter was weird so I'm not sure what you mean. You should be giving them the XP for each enemy defeated/avoided/etc.; e.g. if there is 1 CR 1 guard worth 400xp, you give the party 400xp which divides to 100xp each. If there is 4 of the same guards, you give them 4 times 400xp equals 1,600xp, then divide for the party for 400xp each.

Braininthejar |
Ah well Way of the Wicked is a 3pp AP, not official Paizo content so their design philosophy isn't guaranteed to be followed. I have the book but I don't see where it even mentions which track they use, though I might assume fast track.
And the way you explained how you count XP for multiple enemies in an encounter was weird so I'm not sure what you mean. You should be giving them the XP for each enemy defeated/avoided/etc.; e.g. if there is 1 CR 1 guard worth 400xp, you give the party 400xp which divides to 100xp each. If there is 4 of the same guards, you give them 4 times 400xp equals 1,600xp, then divide for the party for 400xp each.
I remember D&D having a more complicated system for those (because, say, a 6 goblin encounter is more dangerous than 6 encounters of 1 goblin each)
WotW uses medium advancement track. It is mentioned somewhere at the beginning of 1st and second book.
Not official Paizo content? That might explain it... although I remember having similar problems with Council of Thieves
So, with players who chose EXP over Milestone, what should I do?

TxSam88 |

AwesomenessDog wrote:Ah well Way of the Wicked is a 3pp AP, not official Paizo content so their design philosophy isn't guaranteed to be followed. I have the book but I don't see where it even mentions which track they use, though I might assume fast track.
And the way you explained how you count XP for multiple enemies in an encounter was weird so I'm not sure what you mean. You should be giving them the XP for each enemy defeated/avoided/etc.; e.g. if there is 1 CR 1 guard worth 400xp, you give the party 400xp which divides to 100xp each. If there is 4 of the same guards, you give them 4 times 400xp equals 1,600xp, then divide for the party for 400xp each.
I remember D&D having a more complicated system for those (because, say, a 6 goblin encounter is more dangerous than 6 encounters of 1 goblin each)
WotW uses medium advancement track. It is mentioned somewhere at the beginning of 1st and second book.
Not official Paizo content? That might explain it... although I remember having similar problems with Council of Thieves
So, with players who chose EXP over Milestone, what should I do?
Give more XP. for no reason, just give more XP. Or have side quests. or have extra bad guys. Or just let the party be below the level listed in the AP. OR just use Milestone levelling without telling them.

AwesomenessDog |

DnD did, and it gave you diminishing returns for weaker enemies over their listed XP reward, but in pathfinder they did away with the system because the game plays much tighter with CR (lower CR enemies are far less of a threat so you just stop encountering them all together beyond a certain APL-N CR instead of them being tiny road bumps *that could still be threatening* in 3e if you were totally careless).
Personally, as long as they aren't more than 2 levels behind, you can probably be fine to just go as is, 1 level shouldn't be the difference between a win and a loss for any fight beyond other greater factors like using effective tactics. If they are or start getting close, maybe just add in a mini-section of your own creating (especially to help fill out whatever flavors of evil they're missing or have missed) to get them closer to where they should be. Book 2 might be a bit harder to justify, but maybe you could have the orphanage become a full church affair that would mean the newest invaders to their dungeon would have blessed gear if it wasn't swiftly dealt with (letting the party also burn down said orphanage like the puppy-kickers they are!); later parts where you are traveling more, you can just add in forts or other outlying and juicy targets to evil-bait your players.

Braininthejar |
Book 2 might be a bit harder to justify, but maybe you could have the orphanage become a full church affair that would mean the newest invaders to their dungeon would have blessed gear if it wasn't swiftly dealt with (letting the party also burn down said orphanage like the puppy-kickers they are!); later parts where you are traveling more, you can just add in forts or other outlying and juicy targets to evil-bait your players.
The orphanage is where local gangs recruit new minions :P
But there is a monastery that could send some warrior nuns their way.