What is the current status of Atheists in 2E lore?

[Icoret]

This is my first time posting here, so I'm sorry if there are any weird formatting issues.

So, I'm a big fan of Golarion, but my biggest issue with the 1E lore was the way atheists* were depicted and treated by the cosmology. Either we were running God's Not Dead esque nations of religious intolerance, or getting sacrificed to the apocalypse god, or else just being left to rot and spend eternity in the boneyard. Nothing as bad as the Wall of Atheists, but that's a low bar and there's really no reason for such ill treatment. I do remember one city in Heaven made up of the souls of atheists that were fighting for recognition, which was nice, but I have no idea why that isn't just the normal situation. I haven't read any new 2E books that cover the River of Souls (not saying they don't exist - just that I haven't read them) so I was just wondering if this was still the case or not.

I have always thought it would be such a simple way of doing things to just say that atheists* go to whatever plane of existence matches their alignment like everybody else but just not to any particular god's domain within that plane.

This is my first post here, so I hope this doesn't come across as trying to stir up trouble, I'm really just looking for answers.

*Atheists in this case referring to people who don't deny the existence of the beings who call themselves gods but at the same time don't believe they deserve worship just for being powerful. I'm aware that this isn't how the word is used in the real world, but it's the closest analogue and commonly used.

[Arcaian]

Your post didn't come across as stirring up trouble to me! Paizo changed the way atheism and the afterlife interact late in PF1's lifespan - or perhaps earlier, and I missed it before then. But definitely in planar adventures, they had this section:

Planar Adventures, pg 66 wrote:

But two other groups never leave once they arrive at the Spire: dissident souls and failed souls. The former not only unwaveringly believe that deities are unworthy of worship, but also actively refuse to participate in the cycle of souls. Their rejection goes beyond mere atheism or impiety, being a deliberate rejection of the metaphysical order. When given the chance to become petitioners and pass on to other realms, such dissidents actively refuse. Many mortal philosophies teach that all atheist souls meet this end, but in truth, most atheists and agnostics whose souls are judged can experience the full range of afterlives just as adherents of any other belief system do, passing on to the Outer Planes best aligned with their convictions.

So they changed the 'all atheists are held forever in the Boneyard' lore from something that was true, to something that many (presumably non-atheist) groups insist is true. Atheists now typically go to the plane of the afterlife that most suits them, but if they refuse to participate in the cycle entirely, they do have to remain in the Boneyard in perpituity.

[keftiu]

2e's best source on this is Lost Omens: God & Magic, which dedicates all of page 101 to the topic. It offers a number of different atheist perspectives on the gods and the nature of faith/worship, and is pretty sympathetic to all of them. As for the Boneyard:

Quote:

Some atheists are driven by thoughts and fears of the afterlife, and by dismay or outrage at the idea of spending eternity serving at the behest of an eternal master. To such people, a quiet eternity in the Boneyard’s graves is akin to a reprieve or a comforting certainty, especially compared to the helpless terror of being judged by a higher power and sent onward to an unknown destination, with little to no say in the matter.

[Icoret]

Thank you both for the incredibly quick replies, I wasn't expecting to get an answer so soon!

That was very encouraging to read, I especially like the element of choice included. Good on Paizo for correcting that.

[Spamotron]

There's also a special kind of petitioner created from Atheists who wanted to truly understand the truth of reality beyond the gods and they gain special insights to do so. It's one of Paizo's gibberish names that I don't remember so I couldn't search for it on Nethy's. I want to say Bestiary 3?

[Leon Aquilla]

Icoret wrote:

I have always thought it would be such a simple way of doing things to just say that atheists* go to whatever plane of existence matches their alignment like everybody else but just not to any particular god's domain within that plane.

Nah, to Groetus you go.

[The Raven Black]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

Icoret wrote:

I have always thought it would be such a simple way of doing things to just say that atheists* go to whatever plane of existence matches their alignment like everybody else but just not to any particular god's domain within that plane.

Nah, to Groetus you go.

This has not been the case for a long time.

[PossibleCabbage]

Arcaian wrote:

they do have to remain in the Boneyard in perpituity.

I think it's more "get to" than "have to". I would think that in the part of the Boneyard where the conscientious objectors go there's a "When You're Ready" door like at the end of the Good Place, and you can choose to go through it and face Judgement if you decide you want to.

Pharasma is fairly accommodating. She's going to let the ancestors of people from ancestor worshiping cultures hang around in the waiting room for their Judgement because they still have a role to play in the fates of the living, she's going to give people who come from cultures that believe in reincarnation another spin at the wheel if they want/need one, and she's going to let the undecided wait around literally forever if that's what it takes.

The secret is that the whole system of Judgement exists to reinforce the outer planes against the corrosive influence of the maelstrom, and if would-be petitioners are just hanging around in the Boneyard forever- they're still doing that. Like atheists who choose to forgo Judgement forever eventually find ultimate peace and become part of the firmament.

[Arcaian]

A good point, PossibleCabbage! That was just my own personal feelings on that choice sneaking into my writing, rather than a reasonable summary of the setting :)