Camping Rules Clarification

[Kory Luna]

So I had a mid session crisis yesterday thinking I had a grasp on the camping rules after reading them, and found out that I somewhat didn't, but session turned out somewhat smoothly all players said they enjoyed it, but to make it run smoother I decided to reread and review the camping rules and, well, they seem to be a mess and hard to get the intent off, and pretty hard to read while in session

So I wrote up a document to clarify the rules and need some feedback and thoughts if it's really correct of what I wrote or not, hoping the folks who worked on the Kingmaker 2e AP see this and clarify for official confirmation

Also note I suck at formatting currently

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Quick note: Companion Guide and James Jacobs recommends not rolling for encounter while camping in most cases
Companion‘s guide says:
RANDOM ENCOUNTERS
Camping sessions provide multiple opportunities for random encounters, but too many interruptions can overwhelm or bore your players. Keep an eye on how they’re doing and adjust the number of encounters to fit their playing style and the pace they enjoy.

If you’re unsure, try limiting random encounters to once per camping session. You can keep your players on their toes by rolling dice as if you’re checking for further encounters, though! (page 109 of the Kingmaker Companion Guide)

James Jacobs on Paizo Forums
“The GM should always adjudicate when a random encounter happens or not; if they're bogging down play, then limit them to one per day or less. (I thought I put some language to that effect in there, but it might be in the random encounter info in chapter 2 of the main book...).”
“Camping in the wilds SHOULD have dangers associated with potential encounters, but they shouldn't be happening so often that dealing with them is all you do in your session.”

Step 1: Prepare Campsite:

Use the Prepare Campsite exploration activity, this takes 2 hours (reduced to 1 if you already prepared a camp in the hex). Only one PC performs this activity, but someone can use the Aid action to give a bonus

(remember that multiple people can Aid, but bonuses don't stack so the one with the higher check is taken)

Meanwhile, others can do the following Exploration activities (and only them):

Decipher Writing
Identify Alchemy
Identify Magic,
Repair
Treat Wounds,
Influence an NPC companion

Step 2: Camping Activities (Can skip to step 3 immediately, consuming rations):

NOTE:
Cannot be done if the Prepare Campsite activity is a Crit Fail

All actions done in Step 2 increase encounter chance, it doesn't matter if you've done 5 activities or just 1 in each hour. And activities that are 2 hours, like activities with camping trait, trigger the check twice

Camping Activity specifics
(First resolve actions that take the least amount of time since rolls for encounters happens hourly)

The Party can take up to 4 activities with the Camp trait each day as long as they aren't fatigued, (camp trait actions that explicitly state can be done multiple times in a camping session do not count to this limit)

The hours in the day before watches and rests begin is entirely up to you, but recommended to take how many hours you've been awake, 8 hours* if you've just been doing Hexploration , minus the watch time during rests unless you want to be fatigued during the watch

*(8 hours of hexploration is the standard but can be affected assuming no weather effects and or temperature effects reduce

Activities with the Camp trait are each done by a single PC, PCs perform their chosen Camp trait activity simultaneously in game time wise

A PC that succeeds on a particular Camp trait activity means that activity cannot be attempted again by any PC until next camping session (with the exception of Relax)

Activities without the camp trait are not limited to one success per camping session, they take the normal amount of time that activity takes to perform.

NOTE: You roll for your cooking check in step 3

Influence or Discover activities can be used on NPC companions; each such attempt to Influence or Discover takes an hour and isn't limited to one success per camping session

Encounter Chance
(If the check to Prepare the Campsite was a critical success, dont roll for the 1st hour)
At the end of each hour if anyone did an activity, attempt a flat check against the zone's Encounter DC (see the Camping Zones table); on a success, a random encounter occurs.

Each successive hour you attempt this check, the Encounter DC decreases by 1; once the PCs finish their daily preparations, or once an encounter occurs, the Encounter DC resets to its original value.

(Yes this means if you Hexplored for 8 hours, and decide to use all the 8 hours on camping,, you have to roll for 8 encounters,so advise your players to not use up all their hours)

Step 3: Eating:

A PC gains the effects of the only first meal they eat at this time; they cannot gain additional effects from additional meals during the same camping session.

Each PC chooses their own meal, the party collectively chooses the meals for any
companion NPCs camping with them, available meals are:

Rations
Subsist downtime activity
Magical sustenance (create food spell, a heroes’ feast ritual, a ring of sustenance, etc.)
Basic Meal or Special Meal if available (You now roll the check for making the meal)

Step 4: Resting:

Resting Rules

The table to the left summarizes how long the group needs to set aside for rest, assuming rotating watch assignments of equal length.

Every 4 hours, roll a flat check against the camping zone’s Encounter DC based on Camping Zones table

Any adjustments made to Encounter DC from time spent pursuing camp trait actions persist. After an encounter occurs, the Encounter DC resets to its original value.

STEP 5: Daily Preparations:

Zone’s Encounter DC reverts to original DC
Detailed on page 480 CRB

Daily prep takes 1 hour
The character regains Hit Points equal to their Constitution modifier (minimum 1) multiplied by their level.
The character loses the fatigued condition.
The character reduces the severity of the doomed and drained conditions by 1.
Spellcasters regain spell slots, and prepared spellcasters choose spells to have available that day.
Focus Points, other abilities that refresh during your preparations, and abilities that can be used only a certain number of times per day, including magic item uses, are reset.
You don armor and equip weapons and other gear.
You invest up to 10 worn magic items to gain their benefits for the day.

Menial tasks like breaking down the campsite are included in this step without impacting how long it takes for the PCs to prepare for the day.

If PCs wish to continue camping at this same location, they must use the Prepare Campsite
activity again (though it takes only 1 hour to Prepare a Campsite that has been used before).

(it actually says page 500 CRB on the companion guide but on archive of nethys that’s downtime)

Additional Notes & Clarification:

Camping Activities at Other Times (page 109 Companion’s Guide)
You can allow a PC to attempt a Camping activity when they’re not at a prepared campsite if you determine that they have the time and resources to attempt the activity

(although without a camp, some of these activities might be nonsensical to attempt in the first place). If you allow this, treat Camping activities as Exploration activities;

Once success is achieved, they cannot be attempted again by the party for 24 hours. Cooking in particular is an activity that players may be eager to pursue at other times, as camp meals can provide helpful benefits to the adventuring day. Make sure to enforce the scarcity of the unusual ingredients many of these meals require if you allow this.
Why does Hexploration assume 8 hours of travel, and what affects the time?

Hexploration rules assume your currently traveling in Normal temperature, mild to extreme heat/cold reduces to 4, while incredible heat/cold reduces it 2 hours, this affects how much hexploration activities you can do, essentially assume mild to extreme heat/cold as 1 step down how much exploration activities you can do (i,g from 2 to 1), and incredible heat and cold as 2 steps down (from 2 to ½, you can never go below ½ of Hexploration Activity)

Additional note, 8 hours of travel is also the assumption for Exploration mode as well

The Resting rule on page 499 of the Core Rulebook assumes 16 hours is when you become fatigued, what gives?

Essentially the Resting rules assume you weren't traveling and are just awake, stuff like hazards and combat don't really count towards this because their pretty short in game time wise (1 round in combat is 6 seconds), at GMs discretion they can reduce this 16 hours awake policy if you did something for a more prolonged time like Chase mode

Also the 8 hours thing also applies for Exploration mode too

[Kory Luna]

Also forgot to add the main goal of this was also to make the rules easier to look at quickly mid session so its a lot more directly written and with no flavor text

[Chris_Fougere]

This is great I'm going to be doing a similar cheat sheet for my players since we're playing via Foundry.

I am 100% not rolling as many random encounters as the camping rules say. That's just nuts.

[Kory Luna]

EDIT: I forgot to add the google docs link it's more up to date as I can edit it after the 1 hour window for posts on the forums here to be editable are finished

[Paul Zagieboylo]

Good summary! I do agree with Chris_Fougere that the number of random encounter checks it suggests is completely nuts. Whoever wrote that didn't understand probability, at all. As written it nearly guarantees at least one random encounter per day every day, usually two, sometimes three in a low-DC area.

I would recommend one check during the day (which is pretty much always at the base DC for the area) and one check for the night (modified by various camping activities; I also adjusted the modifiers a little to make Camouflage Campsite more useful).

I also didn't do the accounting in "hours" because it was annoying. I just told my players that they normally got 1 camping activity each (there's usually not that much reason to want more anyway), and allowed them to trade exploration activities 1-1 for more camping activities if they want, with the assumption that they would normally take their maximum of 2 exploration activities.

[Trezomnar]

Clarifying question:

The 4 activities per party, is that number there because the assumed party size is 4 players? I have a party with some npcs as well and I've been thinking the npcs would be able to do activities as well.

In other words, 6 characters in camp=6 actions; or is it intended to be a hard cap at 4?

[James Jacobs]

Trezomnar wrote:

Clarifying question:

The 4 activities per party, is that number there because the assumed party size is 4 players? I have a party with some npcs as well and I've been thinking the npcs would be able to do activities as well.

In other words, 6 characters in camp=6 actions; or is it intended to be a hard cap at 4?

It's a 4 activity limit because we assume 4 players per game, and limiting it prevents a larger group's camping activities from taking up too much time in the game overall.

Feel free to expand that in your game if you wish, but keep in mind that the options might begin to feel repetitive or limited or even too powerful if you do so.

[Trezomnar]

James Jacobs wrote:

Trezomnar wrote:

Clarifying question:

The 4 activities per party, is that number there because the assumed party size is 4 players? I have a party with some npcs as well and I've been thinking the npcs would be able to do activities as well.

In other words, 6 characters in camp=6 actions; or is it intended to be a hard cap at 4?

It's a 4 activity limit because we assume 4 players per game, and limiting it prevents a larger group's camping activities from taking up too much time in the game overall.

Feel free to expand that in your game if you wish, but keep in mind that the options might begin to feel repetitive or limited or even too powerful if you do so.

Makes sense. I think I'll stick with the 4 then. I don't want to make the game too repetitive or easy. Thanks for the quick response!

[Chris_Fougere]

The things we've found let us get through the Camping activities fairly quickly with 6 players.

1. Much as we have a default marching order and default exploration activities we have default camping activities.

2. We do a quick check if anyone wants to do something other than their default.

3. Make the rolls, adjudicate the mechanics (other than cooking which is done after people choose what they are eating).

We basically do all the mechanical parts quickly and efficiently which then gives a frame work for any RP the players want to do. A talk between two PCs could be while one is cooking and the other is organizing the watches or maybe one is Hunting/Gathering while another one Aids.

We can get through the mechanical part in like 10 minutes tops and then get back to the RP quickly.